550 "major" Major - Page 13 - Ferrari Life
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post #241 of 698 Old 12-21-2013, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Your guides look great Henri, are they the sintered steel type?

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #242 of 698 Old 12-21-2013, 09:16 PM
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No, they are bronze based alloy like yours.
You can look in the Ferrarista French forum. All the pictures are big size with a lot of zoom to them.
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post #243 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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The trickiest part with doing it with the cams out is getting the cams back in. Since some valves will be open, you're going against those valve springs, and not many of the cam caps can be put on to "start" ratcheting the cam down into its saddles. It's a tricky proposition, and it's easy to break a cam cap or crack the camshaft, especially ones that are as long as these. Plus, the engine has to be locked at TDC so it doesn't budge, but you can't lock the cams in the heads and keep them from turning until after they're in. If they turn while you're installing, you could have valves kissing pistons.

These heads/cams suffer from two design deficiencies (IMO, and after working on German and Japanese cars for a "few" years).

1) There's not a portable tool or fixture that fastens to the heads and allows you to lower the cams into their saddles safely. BMW have the same issue, but they have a tool for it.
So after my pre-Christmas whinge about not having a cam installation tool I decided to make one, or actually a couple, because they need to be used, at minimum, in pairs, and the first time I tried them, I used three to make sure the cams were well supported. Here's what they look like in 3D CAD:



And the real thing:



And on the head:






With the clamps in place and snugged down against the camshafts, I then was able to loosen & remove all the cam caps, then I gradually backed off the large nuts on top of the clamps and voila, the cams lifted up just fine. No muss, no fuss, and no danger of the cams "popping". 30 minutes max to setup, remove all the caps, and back off the big nuts and remove both cams.

Unfortunately these clamps won't serve to "lock" the cams, but they certainly simplify the insertion/extraction of them, whether on the bench or with the heads on the engine.

They're workable "as is", but I need to make a couple of refinements in them before I'd let them out of my shop. (For example, the M6 screws at the outer edges really don't do anything. I put them there to reduce the possibility of the clamp "rocking" from one cam to the other, but it appears that's not an issue, so they're unnecessary.)

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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Last edited by cribbj; 01-04-2014 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Correcting photo size
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post #244 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 07:12 AM
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John- Very nice. So you will install the heads minus the cams, I assume.

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post #245 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 08:03 AM
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John, did you find that the friction between the cams and installation blocks was sufficient to keep them from rotating out of TDC with valve spring pressure, or did you need to hold them in place by the gears?


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post #246 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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John- Very nice. So you will install the heads minus the cams, I assume.
Thanks Taz, I'm not sure yet, but either way, I'm now convinced I won't try to do the install without a hoist. Pulling the heads off the studs is one thing, but trying to align them perfectly & slip them down over the studs, whilst being cantilevered over the fender isn't any fun. I did a practice run this morning and that convinced me.

I'll probably rent or buy a hoist and try to shoehorn it in between the front of the car and my workbench, then lift the heads with it and install them. I do like having the cams out, because 1) I'm a born again believer in Murphy and 2) I'm not on any timeline to finish, or trying to beat a flat rate timeclock. As such, I don't mind having to do something 2-3 times before my OCD nature is satisfied.

Additionally, I decided to pull the cams in order to test the new clamps, and then to do my own QA/QC of the head work. As you may have noticed in one of the pics, the seal carriers on the front of the cams weren't aligned correctly, so whenever I find one little problem like this, I always dig deeper. As a result, each head will get pulled down for an inspection. I won't go so far as to pop the valves out, but I'll take them down to the retainers, etc.

Josh, they didn't budge from TDC, but I don't know if it was because they were just stable there, or if the clamps helped with some friction. If I were doing this in the car, I think I'd want to lock the sprockets.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #247 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Come on you hotshot V12 techies, who's going to find the Skunkworks Easter Egg I "hid" in one of the photos?

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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Last edited by cribbj; 01-04-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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post #248 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 10:30 AM
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John- Looks like the first shot of the head may have a cam locking device on the right hand side.

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Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #249 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Nope, but you're on the right end of the head, Taz

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #250 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 01:57 PM
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I'm guessing it has to do with that bearing sitting on that yellow cad bolt or stud, lower rt corner of that last pic...
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post #251 of 698 Old 01-04-2014, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing it has to do with that bearing sitting on that yellow cad bolt or stud, lower rt corner of that last pic...
Bill
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Good guess Bill, but that's my improvised bearing driver for getting the new timing gear bearings into the block.

You guys are really warm though.

Hint: Look at all the space between those cam sprockets

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #252 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 05:18 AM
 
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Did you make some new cam cogs? I'm guessing that because of the freshly machined appearance.
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post #253 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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Did you make some new cam cogs? I'm guessing that because of the freshly machined appearance.
BINGO! Well done, Michael

These cogs are machined for the "new generation" 8mm pitch timing belts in CF, so they're smaller than the old cogs, which are machined for a 9.525mm tooth pitch.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #254 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Michael, BTW, I drew this oil pressure sender adapter flange in eMachineshop CAD, and I've had one made and it fits perfectly. If you're looking to remote mount the sender for your application, or perhaps even block off the port on the filter housing, this flange might be useful for you.

The first one I had made simply had the same size hole as the OEM adapter drilled straight through, and I had a -3 AN male bung welded onto it, however I revised the design on rev2 to incorporate a drilled and tapped hole for 1/8" NPT, so you can thread in whatever fitting you want without any welding.

It also uses a standard 22mm x 2.5mm thick o-ring that you can get from McMaster's for pennies.
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'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #255 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 07:00 AM
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...These cogs are machined for the "new generation" 8mm pitch timing belts in CF, so they're smaller than the old cogs, which are machined for a 9.525mm tooth pitch.
Very cool! Can't wait to see the belt setup.
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post #256 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Very cool! Can't wait to see the belt setup.
Me too Bret This has been a very straightforward setup so far, and I hope it continues.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #257 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 11:39 AM
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John- That almost comes under the note in the BB OM that says "If for any reason you remove the engine, change the cambelts." "If for any reason you remove the heads, machine some new cambelt sprockets." Looks like a fun project to machine and now you have a spare set because I hear they are high wear items. All that Kevlar rubbing on them, you know.

Taz
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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #258 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Taz, the natural question we get asked is "Why change?"

By getting away from the dated and proprietary Dayco modified trapezoidal belt design, and going to a newer, but proven design which is available from several manufacturers, we'll have a better and more robust timing system solution for our V12's. This is undoubtedly why Nick's Forza Ferrari introduced a similar system for the V8's a few years ago.

The first generation of curvilinear synchronous belts (HTD type, as used by Nick) had nearly 1.5x the load carrying capacity and longevity as the trapezoidal design that we have on our cars, and each succeeding generation has had similar increases in strength and longevity. The belts we've picked are the latest, 3rd generation curvilinear design which has been in widespread use for several years, and according to Gates and the other manufacturers, are now challenging chains for load carrying capacity and longevity.

Too, these belts are more flexible than the Dayco's, and I believe will be less likely to take a "set" if the engine isn't run for long periods. Anyone who has compared our Dayco belts to a timing belt for a Japanese car will remark how much stiffer the Dayco is than the other. That's not to say Dayco's design is inferior, but the synchronous belt industry has changed a lot in the 30-40 years since Dayco/Ferrari introduced this type of belt on the 308's and BB's. To be sure, some upgrades were done along the way, but the basic belt design is still a modified trapezoidal profile (sometimes mistakenly referred to as a "square" tooth), which other OEM's abandoned in the 90's.

In regards to the rest of the timing hardware, I'll also be testing the new SKF timing gear bearings, which are our replacement for the 170787's that were discontinued several years ago. The new bearings are a double row design vs the originals which were single row. They have nearly 1.5x the dynamic load capacity as the old ones, and nearly double the static and fatigue limits. SKF reckon they're a better fit for this application than the originals. Now if we only had a reliable auto tensioner for this system.......

Here's a table comparing the old vs new timing gear bearing load capacities (these are SKF's figures):
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'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #259 of 698 Old 01-05-2014, 08:55 PM
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John- It should be possible to adapt a chain tensioner system for this application. The chain driven V8s and 65 deg V12s have automatic tensioners. Only question would be whether they used sealed bearings or need lubrication.

You will have to calculate the belt frequency for the new belts, too, during development, but it will probably be very similar to the current belts if dimensions are similar.

Never mind, the chain tighteners on the 599 are hydraulic. The design looks like the shoes could be replaced with pulleys, but the hydraulics make it much tougher.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.

Last edited by tazandjan; 01-05-2014 at 09:05 PM.
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post #260 of 698 Old 01-06-2014, 04:21 AM
 
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By getting away from the dated and proprietary Dayco modified trapezoidal belt design,


Have there been tooth shape changes over the years on various Ferraris? My 95 456 has a rounded profile, not the "square" shape seen on early belts on other cars.


On Porsches, the 928 was designed in the 70s and the existing belts at the time were a 3/8" pitch and used a 'square' profile. Porsche changed to the rounded HTD in 1983 (same 3/8" pitch)and this appears to me to be the same as my 456, same pitch and profile.
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