My New 575 HGTC - Page 22 - Ferrari Life
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post #421 of 568 Old 05-05-2016, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
That is quite strange though that he decided that he doesn't want to do it anymore Fabio
Anyway , thank you for the information on the Sofast 3 for the F430 and the Sofast 2 for the 575, both of which I have never heard of before. I am going to ask Massimo if this is what he will be using to smooth out and speed out the F1 shifting mechanism. Is this from Italy? Do you know the company that provides it?
Clyde
F1 gearbox is Made from Magneti Marelli and system name is Selespeed, if you see under your CAR in the back plastic cover of actuator is write selespeed..
Perhaps is visibile also in the picture of my gearbox some posts before ....
Selespeed is the name used in the less Alfa Romeo that was equipped with this gearbox system....
Marelli Office that developed those system is in Bologna, but now they don't work ok it because this system is died for double clutch system.
I tried To arrive in this Office By help of friend Who know people inside .. But result was 0

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #422 of 568 Old 05-05-2016, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
F1 gearbox is Made from Magneti Marelli and system name is Selespeed, if you see under your CAR in the back plastic cover of actuator is write selespeed..
Perhaps is visibile also in the picture of my gearbox some posts before ....
Selespeed is the name used in the less Alfa Romeo that was equipped with this gearbox system....
Marelli Office that developed those system is in Bologna, but now they don't work ok it because this system is died for double clutch system.
I tried To arrive in this Office By help of friend Who know people inside .. But result was 0
Oh this is not good. Magnetti Marelli should have developed their own double clutch F1 as well, its strange that they didn't. Anyway, its unfortunate that they were not willing to talk to you about the system and possible upgrades for it. Sorry to hear about Fabio for you and for all of us here.
Clyde
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post #423 of 568 Old 05-05-2016, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Oh this is not good. Magnetti Marelli should have developed their own double clutch F1 as well, its strange that they didn't. Anyway, its unfortunate that they were not willing to talk to you about the system and possible upgrades for it. Sorry to hear about Fabio for you and for all of us here.
Clyde
Clyde,
Unfortunately is normal this situation ... They have Not interest To help us for some reasons, perhaps for exclusively contract with ferrari , Maserati, Alfa Romeo, aston martin ...
And because this help give them less gain ....
This is my personal opinion.

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #424 of 568 Old 05-30-2016, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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Hello,
this morning i brought my Hgtc from my dealer for the annual service...

Ordinary:
- engine oil (Shell Helix supplied by myself)
- oil filters
- air filters
- gearbox oil
- F1 fluid (only tank)
- Brake fluid

Extraordinary:
- replace gaskets of the front lights
- check the dashboard wire connector because sometimes airbag light turn on and from SD the error apparently is due to the connector.
- replace clamps in the throttle bodies and in the vent pipes.
- clean the suspensions
- external clean of the radiators

What car ..... not the fastest, not the lightest, not the most expensive, but however wonderful

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/im..._face_grin.png

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #425 of 568 Old 05-30-2016, 06:48 AM
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Fabio,
You have a great car no question about it, and even greater after the customizations that you have done to your HGTC. Congrats!
Btw, I am bringing my 575 into Daytona Auto on this Wednesday for Massimo Conti to smooth out the F1 for me, and for Alex Armellini to upgrade the engine ECU to add 40 more horses (totally reversible by the way). Once I have the car back and try it out I will let you know my perceptions about the results.

Ciao
Clyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hello,
this morning i brought my Hgtc from my dealer for the annual service...

Ordinary:
- engine oil (Shell Helix supplied by myself)
- oil filters
- air filters
- gearbox oil
- F1 fluid (only tank)
- Brake fluid

Extraordinary:
- replace gaskets of the front lights
- check the dashboard wire connector because sometimes airbag light turn on and from SD the error apparently is due to the connector.
- replace clamps in the throttle bodies and in the vent pipes.
- clean the suspensions
- external clean of the radiators

What car ..... not the fastest, not the lightest, not the most expensive, but however wonderful

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/im..._face_grin.png
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post #426 of 568 Old 05-30-2016, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Fabio,
You have a great car no question about it, and even greater after the customizations that you have done to your HGTC. Congrats!
Btw, I am bringing my 575 into Daytona Auto on this Wednesday for Massimo Conti to smooth out the F1 for me, and for Alex Armellini to upgrade the engine ECU to add 40 more horses (totally reversible by the way). Once I have the car back and try it out I will let you know my perceptions about the results.

Ciao
Clyde
Clyde,

i will wait your comments about improvement results of ECU's ...

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #427 of 568 Old 05-30-2016, 09:51 AM
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Clyde- I have serious doubts you will gain 40 hp just from an ECU reflash. High end for reflashes appears to be around 25 hp. They seriously hot-rodded the Superamerica engine, advancing the cams, shaving the block, recessing the valves with wider angles, etc, and only gained 25 hp.

Taz
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post #428 of 568 Old 05-30-2016, 09:59 AM
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Clyde- I have serious doubts you will gain 40 hp just from an ECU reflash. High end for reflashes appears to be around 25 hp. They seriously hot-rodded the Superamerica engine, advancing the cams, shaving the block, recessing the valves with wider angles, etc, and only gained 25 hp.


Terry I would welcome even a 25 HP gain but more importantly better drivability (improved gearing) in concert with a smoothed out F1 system which is what I'm being promised. They do not have a dyno at their shop so I'll have to base my findings on the seat of my pants and my fingertips unfortunately.
One of my Ferrari friends here who previously had a 599 and now owns a 458 had them do the ECU upgrade on both his cars and he swears by it.
Clyde



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post #429 of 568 Old 06-01-2016, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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Hello,
my HGTC is ready but front light gaskets not delivered .. than we will jump to next week because tomorrow in Italy is the "Republic day" and friday more company will closed for brigge ... (but probably i will work ... .. )

My dealer tol me tha tin the F1 system not was th eTutel CS speed but the Pentosin CHF 11S, that is used in all Maserati and in recently Ferrari ...

Best at all
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Tutela CS Speed.pdf (32.5 KB, 263 views)
File Type: pdf CRP-116_Pentosin_CHF11S_V3.pdf (216.4 KB, 162 views)

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #430 of 568 Old 06-01-2016, 07:28 AM
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Seems I will have to delay the ECU upgrade on my 575M yet again. The city of Toronto in its wisdom decided to tear up the front sidewalks on my street without warning and so its impossible to get the car out of the garage until they pour new concrete and let it dry. Very frustrating.

Clyde
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post #431 of 568 Old 06-01-2016, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Seems I will have to delay the ECU upgrade on my 575M yet again. The city of Toronto in its wisdom decided to tear up the front sidewalks on my street without warning and so its impossible to get the car out of the garage until they pour new concrete and let it dry. Very frustrating.

Clyde
Clyde,
the events are opposite to us ....but ....

but as usually tell by an italian advertising, "the waiting for the pleasure is itself a pleasure"

Best Regards

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #432 of 568 Old 06-01-2016, 02:05 PM
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Fabio- The Pentosin will work fine in your F1 system. It was originally designed as a very cold weather power steering fluid.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #433 of 568 Old 06-01-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Clyde,

the events are opposite to us ....but ....



but as usually tell by an italian advertising, "the waiting for the pleasure is itself a pleasure"



Best Regards


Very good saying Fabio
Clyde


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post #434 of 568 Old 06-03-2016, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Dealer phone me today ....
Car is near To be ready, but need To replace the left front accelerometer sensor because sonetimes the suspension alarm light turn on and skyhook go in recovery and Not work correct .
Accelerometer cost 113.
New Light gaskets are in place and dealer told me that are nice!
About airbag, the Dashboard connector is Good , he checked Also the airbag ECU that is on tunnel .....he put special grease ( conductive ) in both connectors.
Step By step my HGTC will become perfect ....👍👍

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #435 of 568 Old 06-03-2016, 02:21 PM
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Fabio- Step by step is the only way I can afford to get mine the way I want her. Glad to see you are making progress.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #436 of 568 Old 06-10-2016, 05:10 AM
 
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Interested to hear regarding upgrading the F1 system. I'm not 100% on how it works, as I don't think it goes faster purely because of software upgrades. For the Scuderia it received an new (bigger?) F1 pump, and obviously new software. Not sure if the 430 and 360 pumps are the same. For the 360 CS the software was as fast as the F430, so presumably at least those pumps are the same.

If that's all that's needed (gearbox control unit (software or entire unit) and F1 pump, it would be a fairly easy upgrade I would say.

Someone sold his Enzo recently (only had it shortly) and one of his biggest annoyances was how slow the gearbox is, kind of ruining the experience. I get that. I love manual cars, but Ferrari perfected it with the final single clutch F1 system of the Scuderia/GTO. IF the upgrade is fairly simple, it would be nice if Ferrari actually went on to sell these upgrades.
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post #437 of 568 Old 06-10-2016, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bas Jaski View Post
Interested to hear regarding upgrading the F1 system. I'm not 100% on how it works, as I don't think it goes faster purely because of software upgrades. For the Scuderia it received an new (bigger?) F1 pump, and obviously new software. Not sure if the 430 and 360 pumps are the same. For the 360 CS the software was as fast as the F430, so presumably at least those pumps are the same.

If that's all that's needed (gearbox control unit (software or entire unit) and F1 pump, it would be a fairly easy upgrade I would say.

Someone sold his Enzo recently (only had it shortly) and one of his biggest annoyances was how slow the gearbox is, kind of ruining the experience. I get that. I love manual cars, but Ferrari perfected it with the final single clutch F1 system of the Scuderia/GTO. IF the upgrade is fairly simple, it would be nice if Ferrari actually went on to sell these upgrades.
Hi Bas,

officially Ferrari not sell those upgrades ....

Are some shops (Ferrari and not) that do those upgrades with software obtained in not clear way ....

My dealer use an electronic guy that have the software from F., but is approx one year that he not want to upgrade F1 gearboxes and not tell why ....

About time shift, yes it depend from the software but in every case is not possible to go down over the "mechanical physiological time" because could have damage and less affidability ....

For example 599 have same gearbox of 575 but 599 have a the little dual discs clutch that have less moment of inertia in respect the clutch of 575 and also the flywheel and the crank of 599 have less moment of inertia, for this reason 599 can shift in 100 ms.
The moment of inertia of the rotation parts during the shift phase generates the moment that the synchronizer should restrain in order to equalizer the speed of the two shafts before coupling, in general the moment formula for rotating bodies is:

M=J*ώ

M = external torque
J = moment of intertia (depending to the dimensions and weights of the parts)
ώ = angular acceleration (depending to the time shift)
Ipotizing that the acceleration is costant duting alignment phase vwe have.

Δn = difference of rotation speed of the two shafts

ts = time shift

K = costant for dimension unit

ώ = Δn / ts k

Is clear that if you will reduce shift time, will be acceleration increase, torque increase and for last increase the work of the synchronizer ...., this is one reason because on 575 (and following) Ferrari introduced the multi cone synchronizer, that in the same diameter on the single cone have more brake torque and less coupling force.
Remeber that 550 have double cone only in 1 & 2 gear and single in all other gears, 575-612-599 have triple in 1&2 and double on the other.

Scuderia for example have less problems of inertia because have a very short shaft in respect to the long transaxle shaft of the 575-599, and can run with low shift time.

Best Regards.

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #438 of 568 Old 06-10-2016, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas Jaski View Post
Interested to hear regarding upgrading the F1 system. I'm not 100% on how it works, as I don't think it goes faster purely because of software upgrades. For the Scuderia it received an new (bigger?) F1 pump, and obviously new software. Not sure if the 430 and 360 pumps are the same. For the 360 CS the software was as fast as the F430, so presumably at least those pumps are the same.

If that's all that's needed (gearbox control unit (software or entire unit) and F1 pump, it would be a fairly easy upgrade I would say.

Someone sold his Enzo recently (only had it shortly) and one of his biggest annoyances was how slow the gearbox is, kind of ruining the experience. I get that. I love manual cars, but Ferrari perfected it with the final single clutch F1 system of the Scuderia/GTO. IF the upgrade is fairly simple, it would be nice if Ferrari actually went on to sell these upgrades.
Hi Bas,

I had the full intention of bringing my 575 into Daytona on Tuesday of this week for Massimo Conti to work on my F1 box (and for AMT Tuning on site to upgrade the engine ECU), but unfortunately I had a medical emergency with my father. Fortunately that has stabilized now but I will not have another opportunity to bring my 575 into have Daytona Auto (where Massimo works) work on it until July, so I won't be able to share any feedback with any of you until then.
Clyde
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post #439 of 568 Old 06-10-2016, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Bas,

officially Ferrari not sell those upgrades ....

Are some shops (Ferrari and not) that do those upgrades with software obtained in not clear way ....

My dealer use an electronic guy that have the software from F., but is approx one year that he not want to upgrade F1 gearboxes and not tell why ....

About time shift, yes it depend from the software but in every case is not possible to go down over the "mechanical physiological time" because could have damage and less affidability ....

For example 599 have same gearbox of 575 but 599 have a the little dual discs clutch that have less moment of inertia in respect the clutch of 575 and also the flywheel and the crank of 599 have less moment of inertia, for this reason 599 can shift in 100 ms.
The moment of inertia of the rotation parts during the shift phase generates the moment that the synchronizer should restrain in order to equalizer the speed of the two shafts before coupling, in general the moment formula for rotating bodies is:

M=J*ώ

M = external torque
J = moment of intertia (depending to the dimensions and weights of the parts)
ώ = angular acceleration (depending to the time shift)
Ipotizing that the acceleration is costant duting alignment phase vwe have.

Δn = difference of rotation speed of the two shafts

ts = time shift

K = costant for dimension unit

ώ = Δn / ts k

Is clear that if you will reduce shift time, will be acceleration increase, torque increase and for last increase the work of the synchronizer ...., this is one reason because on 575 (and following) Ferrari introduced the multi cone synchronizer, that in the same diameter on the single cone have more brake torque and less coupling force.
Remeber that 550 have double cone only in 1 & 2 gear and single in all other gears, 575-612-599 have triple in 1&2 and double on the other.

Scuderia for example have less problems of inertia because have a very short shaft in respect to the long transaxle shaft of the 575-599, and can run with low shift time.

Best Regards.
Dear Fabio,
That is a very detailed explanation of how its possible to fiddle with the F1 system to improve things. Thank you
Clyde
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post #440 of 568 Old 06-10-2016, 08:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Bas,

officially Ferrari not sell those upgrades ....

Are some shops (Ferrari and not) that do those upgrades with software obtained in not clear way ....

My dealer use an electronic guy that have the software from F., but is approx one year that he not want to upgrade F1 gearboxes and not tell why ....

About time shift, yes it depend from the software but in every case is not possible to go down over the "mechanical physiological time" because could have damage and less affidability ....

For example 599 have same gearbox of 575 but 599 have a the little dual discs clutch that have less moment of inertia in respect the clutch of 575 and also the flywheel and the crank of 599 have less moment of inertia, for this reason 599 can shift in 100 ms.
The moment of inertia of the rotation parts during the shift phase generates the moment that the synchronizer should restrain in order to equalizer the speed of the two shafts before coupling, in general the moment formula for rotating bodies is:

M=J*ώ

M = external torque
J = moment of intertia (depending to the dimensions and weights of the parts)
ώ = angular acceleration (depending to the time shift)
Ipotizing that the acceleration is costant duting alignment phase vwe have.

Δn = difference of rotation speed of the two shafts

ts = time shift

K = costant for dimension unit

ώ = Δn / ts k

Is clear that if you will reduce shift time, will be acceleration increase, torque increase and for last increase the work of the synchronizer ...., this is one reason because on 575 (and following) Ferrari introduced the multi cone synchronizer, that in the same diameter on the single cone have more brake torque and less coupling force.
Remeber that 550 have double cone only in 1 & 2 gear and single in all other gears, 575-612-599 have triple in 1&2 and double on the other.

Scuderia for example have less problems of inertia because have a very short shaft in respect to the long transaxle shaft of the 575-599, and can run with low shift time.

Best Regards.
Thanks Fabio.

Never knew the 599 and 575 had the same gearbox mostly. So in theory, if you put a 599 clutch discs + ancillaries in the 575, and have the right software, it could shift at 100ms?

Do you know how the 599 GTB gearbox differs from the GTO? is it just quicker software/better pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Hi Bas,

I had the full intention of bringing my 575 into Daytona on Tuesday of this week for Massimo Conti to work on my F1 box (and for AMT Tuning on site to upgrade the engine ECU), but unfortunately I had a medical emergency with my father. Fortunately that has stabilized now but I will not have another opportunity to bring my 575 into have Daytona Auto (where Massimo works) work on it until July, so I won't be able to share any feedback with any of you until then.
Clyde
Looking forward to the update, and best to your father .
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