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post #1 of 47 Old 12-11-2012, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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456 - Hi Guys

I'm interested in a 456M, can you tell me more about the car, how good are they ? any common problems, how is the service/maintenance costs.

I see they come in Automatic...

Johnny
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post #2 of 47 Old 12-11-2012, 10:35 AM
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Much to talk about. I suspect you have done some research already besides looking at pics?

IF not, first do the following from the TABS above: BLOG --> Buyer's Guided [under categories] --> Scroll down to Ferrari 456 GT/GTA Buyer's Guide and download the guide.

or just click on this link: Ferrari 456 GT/GTA Buyer's Guide - Ferrari Life

Be glad to give as much as I can when the questions get 'narrower'.

BUT as a general rule of thumb If I were in the market again for that model:
- get the M series unless you are very very overly in love with the looks of the older GT
- buy only the best example you can find and after a good PPI on the usual suspects [I'll elaborate later]
- Do not be daunted by high mileage cars in the 456, 550 or 575 series
- A higher mileage car may be a much better car than a too low mileage car

PS: Since the Ms are less older than mine, but seemingly now starting to show signs of 'issues' lately, like CATs, Exhaust manifolds, shrinkage, and even window issues, I've been told, I would also look at the coolant system for excessive wear/corrosion and the leveling/shock areas for needed repair.

I'll let those that own them comment further. A well cared for M would be very little in expense to keep, like about $500/year I'm thinking but I'd budget about $1,500/year for a buffer.

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Last edited by Granucci; 12-11-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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post #3 of 47 Old 12-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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Agree with Rik


Great driving car. People really look down at the automatic equipped cars but I like them. The transmission and torque converter are unusually well adapted to the power delivery of the motor.
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post #4 of 47 Old 12-11-2012, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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thanks guys.

I'm getting the feeling this is more of a long distance tour car. which makes sense - its build for comfort...and they are really unique in looks...

Rgds
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post #5 of 47 Old 12-11-2012, 08:56 PM
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Put 575M 18" or 19" wheels on one and it looks like it came out of the factory yesterday. NF2s, the same. Good looking car with a lot of Daytona styling cues.

Taz
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post #6 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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thanks Taz.

that what I noticed, the lines and certain angles - originality and most don't recognize it.

how is the engine config, cambelts service easy to perform ? the gearbox and clutch sound if looked after.?..

Rgds
Johnny

Last edited by JohnnyTS; 12-12-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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post #7 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 07:49 AM
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Engine is same basic motor used from 456 to 612. They have been quite good. Belts are really the easiest of any of the Ferrari motors to change.

Clutch is an ordinary large single plate first used on the 512 TR. Very durable

The trans needs regular fluid changes but has really only shown one weak link. If some nut job does a bunout in reverse it WILL break it.

Rear shocks have been an issue but there is a guy in the States who does an exellent job of fixing them at a very reasonable price.


The usual V12 stuff. Coolant hoses, motor mounts etc.
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post #8 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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Johnny- There you go, from someone who has worked on a ton of them. Delta Vee can fix the shocks and F1 Imports can fix the window mechanism and the engines have been very good. Only big issue has been bad batches of bronze valve guides on a few 456s and 456Ms, like the F355 problem. Brian taught me that you can check clutch wear with a borescope through an inspection port, too.

Very strong engine with quarter miles times in the mid-13s.

Brian- Reminds me, what is the measurement of that throwout bearing pin when the clutch is new? Mine has 13 mm of travel remaining.

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post #9 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz
..Only big issue has been bad batches of bronze valve guides on a few 456s and 456Ms..

Taz:
I believe the valve guides were solved on the M series.

IIRC, Brian mentioned inserting new guides in the 456's, can be done in SITU, relieving some costs there. ALSO, better than OEM in terms of quality vs cost [especially cost] for the guides can be sourced.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
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1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #10 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
Taz:
I believe the valve guides were solved on the M series.

IIRC, Brian mentioned inserting new guides in the 456's, can be done in SITU, relieving some costs there. ALSO, better than OEM in terms of quality vs cost [especially cost] for the guides can be sourced.


Not to my knowlege.


Also guides are a big job requireing head removal and complete disassembly.

It is still very rare to see the 12s needing guides. They just are not stressed like the 355.
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post #11 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 12:04 PM
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Rik- One of my friends just swapped out the guides on his 456M. We speculated whether late model 456Ms had gone to the sintered steel valve guides of the 575M, but all evidence points to them staying with bronze all the way through production, just like they did on the 550.

Like Brian said, rare, but I also know of one European 550 owner who had to swap out his guides, too, when oil use went off the charts.

Taz
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post #12 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 12:37 PM
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The 2000 456M at La Jolla Sports Car Co just had its guides changed, although I wasn't told why.

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post #13 of 47 Old 12-12-2012, 08:22 PM
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David- Betcha it was using oil and blowing smoke, the same thing that happened to my friend's 456M.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #14 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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ok, so that sounds like an issue.

so swapping or finding out if the guides were swapped before purchase might be a good idea.

thanks for all the info. so far.

John
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post #15 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyTS View Post
ok, so that sounds like an issue.

so swapping or finding out if the guides were swapped before purchase might be a good idea.

thanks for all the info. so far.

John

There are better metrics and first hand accounts to this than I can relate, but IIRC, most average guide issues in the 60-80K mileage range. I have a car in the upper range and [knock on wood] not a valve guide issue yet.

I wouldn't get freaked out about the guides. it is a known issue, and not all experience it. IF done, then good for you. IF not, buy it and enjoy it regularly.

Since you are looking at the M and from what I'm getting not all the Ms fall into the category, I would get the latest issue/year of the M and not fret too much.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


Current:
Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #16 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 12:53 PM
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Rikm Johnny- Affirmative, the 456M of my friend was around 40-50K if I remember correctly. Some 456s and 456Ms never have the problem, so I would not make it a kill-deal kind of thing.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #17 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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whats the worst that can happen if this happens ? noisy lifters type sound ? or can this result in bigger issue ?

guys thanks so much for your insights.

J
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post #18 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 09:17 PM
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Johnny- They blow copious amounts of smoke and use oil like a WW-I LeRhone rotary, which has no oil return.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #19 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyTS View Post
whats the worst that can happen if this happens ? noisy lifters type sound ? or can this result in bigger issue ?

guys thanks so much for your insights.

J


Loss of compression and poor performance.

Guides keep the valves aligned with the seats. No alignment, no seal at the seats. The smaller the valve, the more precise alignment is required for sealing. 4 and 5 valve motors have small valves ergo a more precise alignment is required to do the same job as compared to say your average Chevy V8.

Oil smoke and oil consumption is actually quite a rare manisfistation of bad guides on a dry sump motor. The oil scavanging system puts the interior of the motor under such a vacuum, it is a difficult task for oil to get past the seals and guides.
Sloppy guides in an average American V8 with wet sump oiling, iffy crancase breathing and nearly non existant seals when new and they smoke like a Choo Choo train.

Last edited by Brian; 12-13-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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post #20 of 47 Old 12-13-2012, 09:43 PM
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Brian- Interesting, thanks. The valve guides allow too much movement of the valve stem, which prevents a good seal of valve to seat, I guess?

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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