New member. Thinking of starting with a 360 spider. - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-11-2013, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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New member. Thinking of starting with a 360 spider.

Hi everyone. I have recently been obsessing over the prospects of picking up a Ferrari F360 Spider. So as a serious prospective buyer, I've been lurking these boards to do as much research as possible. I'm a fairly young (28), higher earning professional in the central new york area (~$150k) with a rapidly growing income. I Also own a home that also provides me with an additional 11k income per year. I've always dreamed of one day owning a Ferrari, but never actually believed it would be possible, let alone this early in life. Through extremely hard work and what I believe to be very good luck, I believe that I can make my dream a reality. Because I don't want this to be an impulse buy, I have made an agreement with myself to meet a certain benchmark at my job and then and only then reward myself. This benchmark by my estimations should be attainable in as early as one year, but should easily take me less than 2 years. This deal I made with myself has multiple benefits. 1. I'll be able to save up a significant amount of money, 2. My earning at my job will have a base of around 180k without getting out of bed 3. It gives me the opportunity to possibly pick up another rental property. My family thinks I am crazy, and that the money could be better served elsewhere. I agree that there are better uses of this kind of money, but none more enjoyable. Plus I am single and currently have the means to satisfy every financial obligation I have with ease.
I am a big fan of using other people's money for things so my intention is to finance around 80% of the purchase and use my other cash for more entrepreneurial things, like rental property or starting a new business.

My current debts are:
Mortgage - 1575/month. Rent from tenants = 2500/month (188k left)
Student loan - ~1000/month. (110k left)
Car payment on my BMW - 530/month. (25k left)
And the rest of my bills add to around 1500/month

Thoughts?

P.S. I'm no stranger to fast cars, in addition to the BMW, I own outright a highly modified single turbo 93 Mazda rx7 (runs 1/4 in 10.8 at 132 mph)
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post #2 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 01:46 AM
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hi fastcarfreak

welcome to the forum. good luck with the search.

just FYI (and my opinion), it is a bit tacky to post your debt and what you make a year....you should know what you can and cannot afford. and i mean that in the nicest possible way.

plus, F cars all range in different price points...

my 2 cents... good luck

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post #3 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 04:35 AM
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Welcome to the forum FCF. Of course I am biased, but the 360 is an excellent choice. And there are plenty to choose from. Just make sure you do your homework and buy one it top shape.

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post #4 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 05:49 AM
 
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Welcome to the site. Good luck in your search. If you need any help. Please send ma an email.
Thanks
Alex.
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastcarfreak View Post
Hi everyone. I have recently been obsessing over the prospects of picking up a Ferrari F360 Spider. So as a serious prospective buyer, I've been lurking these boards to do as much research as possible. I'm a fairly young (28), higher earning professional in the central new york area (~$150k) with a rapidly growing income. I Also own a home that also provides me with an additional 11k income per year. I've always dreamed of one day owning a Ferrari, but never actually believed it would be possible, let alone this early in life. Through extremely hard work and what I believe to be very good luck, I believe that I can make my dream a reality. Because I don't want this to be an impulse buy, I have made an agreement with myself to meet a certain benchmark at my job and then and only then reward myself. This benchmark by my estimations should be attainable in as early as one year, but should easily take me less than 2 years. This deal I made with myself has multiple benefits. 1. I'll be able to save up a significant amount of money, 2. My earning at my job will have a base of around 180k without getting out of bed 3. It gives me the opportunity to possibly pick up another rental property. My family thinks I am crazy, and that the money could be better served elsewhere. I agree that there are better uses of this kind of money, but none more enjoyable. Plus I am single and currently have the means to satisfy every financial obligation I have with ease.
I am a big fan of using other people's money for things so my intention is to finance around 80% of the purchase and use my other cash for more entrepreneurial things, like rental property or starting a new business.

My current debts are:
Mortgage - 1575/month. Rent from tenants = 2500/month (188k left)
Student loan - ~1000/month. (110k left)
Car payment on my BMW - 530/month. (25k left)
And the rest of my bills add to around 1500/month

Thoughts?

P.S. I'm no stranger to fast cars, in addition to the BMW, I own outright a highly modified single turbo 93 Mazda rx7 (runs 1/4 in 10.8 at 132 mph)
I assume you are asking advice - mine would be pay off at least some debt.

Investing in a appreciating asset is one thing - but you have debt all over the place.

This is a very unusual response from me as debt often motivates people and rewarding yourself keeps the cyclist fresh.

Pay off the BMW save another 20k - then buy a Ferrari and hide 5k for repairs

FWIW - a 360 isn't a fast car - it's a 10 year old beautiful Ferrari.
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by champagne612 View Post
FWIW - a 360 isn't a fast car - it's a 10 year old beautiful Ferrari.
Fast by virtually any automotive standard, I think the vast majority would say its both.

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post #7 of 21 Old 02-12-2013, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Gransport Guy View Post
hi fastcarfreak

welcome to the forum. good luck with the search.

just FYI (and my opinion), it is a bit tacky to post your debt and what you make a year....you should know what you can and cannot afford. and i mean that in the nicest possible way.

plus, F cars all range in different price points...

my 2 cents... good luck

Thanks for the reply. It was pretty late when I posted, maybe it was a lapse in judgement on my part


Champagne:
The car loan is only at 2.9%. That would probably be the last thing I would pay off ahead of time. The mortgage is not only a tax deduction, but in my mind is non existent based on collected rent (plus its at a low 3.75%). The only other debt I currently have is the student loan, which I definitely can understand the values of paying off, but from my perspective, it makes more sense to save 20k cash and put a down payment on a decent 100k rental property (common in my area) that provides me with a net income of around 700-900, which essentially covers the minimum student loan payment for the life of the loan and gives me a house that is worth 100k+ in 30 years. Seems far more valuable than taking that same 20k and paying 1/5 of a loan off. Yes I understand that buying a ferrari would hold back my financial situation from being even further ahead of the game, but if I keep that mentality, I may not get one until I am in my 50s, and that may be too long for me to wait lol

The other 1500/month for bill are not debts, they are just normal living expenses (rent, food, gas, insurance etc)

Lastly, I I know the ferrari is not fast comparatively to my other car, but 400 hp is nothing to shake your head at, and god is that car gorgeous. Plus after owning my rx7 for around 10 years, I have finally matured to the realization, you can't exactly use all that power very often.
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-13-2013, 06:16 AM
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First off, congratulations! And I hope you will take this advice in a friendly spirit.

IMHO, live within your means. If you can't pay cash, forgo the car. It's not an investment in any stretch of the imagination. It's pretty frivolous when you think about it, but probably cheaper than a high maintenance wife or girlfriend.

There are too many people living in tents today who thought they were doing well and could live big. They thought they were invincible to an economic crisis and corporate downsizing..

Personally, the only thing I ever financed was my home (and I paid that off in 15 years). No bragging, just did it so I could sleep well at night in the event I ever lost my job or became disabled.

I took the approach that if I really wanted something (a "reward"), I'd find a way to purchase it (stock market, earnings). In fact, both Ferrari's (and other toys, like boats) were purchased w/stock market gains, not ordinary income.

I know, this runs counter to the economic leverage theory, but I've done okay with two homes and enough toys to be content and not owing anybody a dime.

Lastly, if you can't eat it, drink it, or drive it you probably don't need it.
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-13-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastcarfreak View Post
Thanks for the reply. It was pretty late when I posted, maybe it was a lapse in judgement on my part


Champagne:
The car loan is only at 2.9%. That would probably be the last thing I would pay off ahead of time. The mortgage is not only a tax deduction, but in my mind is non existent based on collected rent (plus its at a low 3.75%). The only other debt I currently have is the student loan, which I definitely can understand the values of paying off, but from my perspective, it makes more sense to save 20k cash and put a down payment on a decent 100k rental property (common in my area) that provides me with a net income of around 700-900, which essentially covers the minimum student loan payment for the life of the loan and gives me a house that is worth 100k+ in 30 years. Seems far more valuable than taking that same 20k and paying 1/5 of a loan off. Yes I understand that buying a ferrari would hold back my financial situation from being even further ahead of the game, but if I keep that mentality, I may not get one until I am in my 50s, and that may be too long for me to wait lol

The other 1500/month for bill are not debts, they are just normal living expenses (rent, food, gas, insurance etc)

Lastly, I I know the ferrari is not fast comparatively to my other car, but 400 hp is nothing to shake your head at, and god is that car gorgeous. Plus after owning my rx7 for around 10 years, I have finally matured to the realization, you can't exactly use all that power very often.
Ok - let's go back before we go hp crazy or lack thereof like income.

Do you recall this part of your post?

* My earning at my job will have a base of around 180k without getting out of bed *

Will have ... before getting out of bed ... it's cocky which I like but not when someone is trying to justify a depreciating asset.
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-13-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne612 View Post
Do you recall this part of your post?

* My earning at my job will have a base of around 180k without getting out of bed *

Will have ... before getting out of bed ...it's cocky which I like but not when someone is trying to justify a depreciating asset.
that's hilarious Doug... I don't think we want to go down the slippery slope of income earning potential and being cocky.

I've always been told by people way better off than me, that if you're rich, you shouldn't have to show off your richness...

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post #11 of 21 Old 02-13-2013, 10:15 AM
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Congrats and welcome: From my perspective only I LOVE real estate and this is a good market. So much so that I would love to dump anything else I have and re-enter that arena.

However, that doesn't answer your spot. 360 is certainly a nice entry item but certainly depreciates quicker that something they are not making anymore: Land.

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post #12 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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I appreciate the comments. I definitely know the value of picking up real estate in this market. That's why I plan to do just that. But I need to limit my exposure to it. While it is a great investment, it also requires a lot of maintenance and time to manage correctly. I don't mind having a few properties, but I don't think I can foresee myself getting myself in over my head in responsibility.

I'm not gonna jump blindly into the car. I will certainly make sure I have ample cash reserves incase something were to happen. I do spend a lot of money, but I also save a good chunk. That won't change. I guess if I continue going on now without the car and without additional income, I can live a pretty comfortable life, but I continuously try to push myself for more. In my mind, I have made a deal with myself. If I want the car, I have to be willing to earn it. That would entail increasing my earnings at work, in excess of what it will reasonably cost to sustain the costs/maintenance of the 360.

I apologize if my original post came off as cocky, that wasn't my intention. Who knows what the future has in store. We will see. I hope the Ferrari is in that future. And hopefully sooner than later.
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastcarfreak View Post
I appreciate the comments. I definitely know the value of picking up real estate in this market. That's why I plan to do just that. But I need to limit my exposure to it. While it is a great investment, it also requires a lot of maintenance and time to manage correctly. I don't mind having a few properties, but I don't think I can foresee myself getting myself in over my head in responsibility.

I'm not gonna jump blindly into the car. I will certainly make sure I have ample cash reserves incase something were to happen. I do spend a lot of money, but I also save a good chunk. That won't change. I guess if I continue going on now without the car and without additional income, I can live a pretty comfortable life, but I continuously try to push myself for more. In my mind, I have made a deal with myself. If I want the car, I have to be willing to earn it. That would entail increasing my earnings at work, in excess of what it will reasonably cost to sustain the costs/maintenance of the 360.

I apologize if my original post came off as cocky, that wasn't my intention. Who knows what the future has in store. We will see. I hope the Ferrari is in that future. And hopefully sooner than later.

Well, my take always is an investment or any asset must stand on its own. It should not rely on any other asset to exist. Rentals, say, may need a bankroll for tough times, but it is a business on its own and should not contribute to, say, a 360 or another property etc.

just my take.

having said that, the maintenance on a well sorted 360 is among the least to worry about. I would budget $1,500/year, but honestly that will most likely accumulate as on a good one will just build, but not a bad budget anyway. I'm just warding against tough times. IT is, truly a toy. Sorry but unless using as a daily driver, it is for entertainment not necessity.
Having said that, I would not be against financing one, IF the monthly payments made cash flow sense.

Forget depreciation,
forget appreciation
forget maintenance in the sense you are struggling to watch the gas meter or mileage or amount you spend.
SOooo, this 'toy' will need to stand on it's own....think boat and that is a close analogy, but unlike a boat one can't truly use it daily to gather food stuffs.

I don't know your entire situation and the net is too difficult to appraise it all, but those are my takes.
BTW: As far as easier modern Ferraris to maintain for less money the 360 would be near the top of my list.

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post #14 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yea, I selected the 360 as my potential starter car because it has a relatively decent maintenance cost history, it is near the bottom of its depreciation curve, so once I own it outright, it will be easy to trade up, it's beautiful, and I feel it's not really that expensive in comparison. Did I mention the car is beautiful. Lol

I'm not too afraid of the 1500/yr for maintenance. I would probably budget more, because I tend to conservatively estimate when it comes to budgeting. The last thing I want to do is go over a budget. I don't see any reason why I couldn't manage a $2k/month budget for total toy expenditures (loan, insurance, repairs, maintenance, gas). I know many people are saying that if I can't pay cash for it, it's not a good idea. The reality is, I'll never pay cash for something I can get a reasonable interest rate on. As I mentioned before, my belief is that there is a much better use of cash. I'm more than willing to accept the risks associated with it.
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 03:04 PM
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I don't see any reason why I couldn't manage a $2k/month budget for total toy expenditures (loan, insurance, repairs, maintenance, gas).
I do not think your $2K/month would cover the "total" toy expenditure as you call it. Depending on your insurance, I think you're shy by about $250-500 per month.

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post #16 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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I figured 1150/month on the loan. Finance roughly 60k for 5 years.
200/month insurance (seems high)
50/month gas(maybe average 200 miles per month for 6 months.. Again, high estimate)
Leaves 600/month for repairs/maintenance. From what I've seen. Estimates range fro 2-5k/year.
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-14-2013, 06:18 PM
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that's hilarious Doug... I don't think we want to go down the slippery slope of income earning potential and being cocky.

I've always been told by people way better off than me, that if you're rich, you shouldn't have to show off your richness...
True - but it ain't braggin if it's true

I wish the man the best - a lot of guys including me are motivated for odd reasons.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-16-2013, 04:25 AM
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True - but it ain't braggin if it's true

I wish the man the best - a lot of guys including me are motivated for odd reasons.
Doug,

Didn't mean it in any negative or insulting way.

Maybe the other thread (remember the guy who wanted a Scud and works two jobs, including at McDonald's?) left a sour taste in my mouth and thought this thread was gonna go that direction too...but it hasn't.

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post #19 of 21 Old 02-16-2013, 09:54 AM
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Yea, I selected the 360 as my potential starter car because it has a relatively decent maintenance cost history, it is near the bottom of its depreciation curve, so once I own it outright, it will be easy to trade up, it's beautiful, and I feel it's not really that expensive in comparison. Did I mention the car is beautiful. Lol

I'm not too afraid of the 1500/yr for maintenance. I would probably budget more, because I tend to conservatively estimate when it comes to budgeting. The last thing I want to do is go over a budget. I don't see any reason why I couldn't manage a $2k/month budget for total toy expenditures (loan, insurance, repairs, maintenance, gas). I know many people are saying that if I can't pay cash for it, it's not a good idea. The reality is, I'll never pay cash for something I can get a reasonable interest rate on. As I mentioned before, my belief is that there is a much better use of cash. I'm more than willing to accept the risks associated with it.

Cant say I don't agree with you there.....Im in automotive finance, and I certainly financed mine at a stupid low rate and good term.

Insured it very well - mainly against idiots I have to drive around in South texas, and put a nest egg back for over a years worth of maint and repairs if needed.

Bought mine well enough to pay off other lines of debt that had higher rates with equity to spare....so if I had to get out of it tomorrow, I could and likely even make a little on her after the freshen-up mechanically I have done over the past couple months.

Truely hope that never has to happen....but my thoughts are every situation is different - and I personally see 10 different auto-purchase situations every day....none are ever exactly alike.

Go with your gut....you know your situation better than anyone...but make sure you start by buying a well sorted one, and buying it well.

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-16-2013, 11:08 PM
 
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Kinda late on this one, but better late than never! Welcome to FerrariLife! 360 spider is a great choice!
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