Ripped off? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 03-23-2012, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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Ripped off?

Hi, I just bought a ferrari 360 Spider 2001 model two days ago from a dealership. I asked the seller if there were any aftermarket parts in the car and he answered "No", (I have a witness to this) and the car was sold "as is". I checked the car out and everything seemed fine with it. Until I wanted to polish and clean of the exhaust today. Then I noticed that the exhaust was in fact a "Ztek" exhaust(Zero Tek). I suspect previous owner sol O.E.M exhaust on ebay or something and put in this $600 exhaust. Does anyone know how much O.E.M 360 Spider exhaust costs + where to find it? And can I sue the dealership for lying about this, or make them give me a new one for free?

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post #2 of 17 Old 03-23-2012, 09:48 PM
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I would certainly ask that the dealer installs the original exhaust as he stated that there were no aftermarket parts on the car.

I suspect that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar so go back and ask that they put the car back to an original condition.
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post #3 of 17 Old 03-23-2012, 10:17 PM
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Make sure you're sitting down before you click these links. Might not be a bad idea to have a stiff drink ready to go also:

Ricambi, and their great representatives Daniel & Mike are usually the first place to go for trustworthy OEM parts: Ferrari Parts - Ricambi America, Inc. :

Here's your muffler only:
Ferrari Parts : 174089 : 174089 EXHAUST MUFFLER 360M

Tailpipes (not absolutely sure these are the right ones, but the other selections are just as bad):

Ferrari Parts : 178769 : 178769 EXH PIPE SX

Ferrari Parts : 178770 : 178770 EXH PIPE DX

And if you think those are bad, you really don't want to know the prices on the cats......

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #4 of 17 Old 03-23-2012, 10:49 PM
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Welcome the Ferrari LIfe

Anything else besides the exhaust?

Was it bought at a Ferrari dealer?

Feel free to send a pm.

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post #5 of 17 Old 03-24-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1exander View Post
I would certainly ask that the dealer installs the original exhaust as he stated that there were no aftermarket parts on the car.

I suspect that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar so go back and ask that they put the car back to an original condition.
btw welcome to Ferrarilife
+1, I would go back and ask to have the original re-installed. Does the car still have the toolkit with it?
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post #6 of 17 Old 03-24-2012, 06:23 AM
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in my state, we have a three day right of rescission. I would take advantage of that.

how hard are original exhausts to get used? i would imagine they would be giving them away considering all the aftermarkets that go on 360's. my 328 exhaust has been collecting dust for years and i would probably let it go cheap. More importantly, why would you want one? put a capristo on there.



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post #7 of 17 Old 03-24-2012, 10:06 AM
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How about one for $20 and no bids? Needs tailpipes. Others for $500 or so complete.

Ferrari 360 OEM Factory Exhaust | eBay

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post #8 of 17 Old 03-24-2012, 01:59 PM
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Don't take this too hard because you are not the first by a long shot but this is one of a few thousand reasons you should have the car inspected by someone who knows what they are doing prior to purchase.

For the more immediate situation. Terry's ebay link is not a bad idea but consider my thoughts on it first.
I am usually far more interested in stock, as delivered Ferrari's in most respects but if I had a 360 the stock muffler would go in the trash. They are a dual layer can with insulation in between and have an expansion joint near the middle. It expands and contracts about 10mm or so like an accordian and pump out powdery white insulation debris all over the engine compartment. It is messy and unsightly.

I have no direct knowledge of the exhaust you got but it might have saved you money.
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post #9 of 17 Old 03-25-2012, 07:25 AM
 
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The question says it all, have a PPI done, even from a dealer.
Even a dealer may not know the history or mods on a vehicle.
The only time I may not PPI would be if vehicle is still under the original factory warranty,
but I would still do a leak down test.
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-25-2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sunskr View Post
The question says it all, have a PPI done, even from a dealer.
Even a dealer may not know the history or mods on a vehicle.
The only time I may not PPI would be if vehicle is still under the original factory warranty,
but I would still do a leak down test.
Dealer should know everything - whether or not it's on consignment.

Not to rant - but isn't that the whole idea of buying a Ferrari from the dealer.

Especially on obvious faults - would be very interesting to know if there is any standards from FNA regarding selling used Ferrari's under or out of warranty.

If the dealer owns the car - I guarantee you the dealer ran their own PPI or whatever to learn everything about the vehicle.

Question is do they have to disclose that finding when asked specifically - my guess is yes!

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post #11 of 17 Old 03-25-2012, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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I left out an important point here, I am a certified car importer and my job is to work as a middleman towards importing cars to Norway. I know that the aftermarket exhausts are probably way better than stock 360 exhaust, but when you ship a car to Norway. #1. The customs will strip the car for all Mods(This is a law and I know that its idiotic, but there is No way around it) and send mods back to Country car was shipped from. #2. Norwegians want their car COMPLETELY STOCK because they want it to stay classic or do stuff to it themselves. Therefore a car like this will drop around $20,000 in value with mods on it believe it or not.
There's a lot of good points written above here, but I'm gonna have to agree the most with Chamagne612.
Of course the right thing would have been to have someone else look over it with the right knowledge, the only problem is that I don't know anyone that owns a Ferrari, and I bought the car out of state so I couldn't bring my own mechanic. As I said earlier I didn't notice the aftermarket exhaust until afterwards when I was cleaning it.
The dealer is being a doucheb** and does not want to take any responsibility seeing how the car was sold "as is", even though he stated that everything in the car was stock.
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post #12 of 17 Old 03-25-2012, 10:37 PM
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I left out an important point here, I am a certified car importer and my job is to work as a middleman towards importing cars to Norway. I know that the aftermarket exhausts are probably way better than stock 360 exhaust, but when you ship a car to Norway. #1. The customs will strip the car for all Mods(This is a law and I know that its idiotic, but there is No way around it) and send mods back to Country car was shipped from. #2. Norwegians want their car COMPLETELY STOCK because they want it to stay classic or do stuff to it themselves. Therefore a car like this will drop around $20,000 in value with mods on it believe it or not.
There's a lot of good points written above here, but I'm gonna have to agree the most with Chamagne612.
Of course the right thing would have been to have someone else look over it with the right knowledge, the only problem is that I don't know anyone that owns a Ferrari, and I bought the car out of state so I couldn't bring my own mechanic. As I said earlier I didn't notice the aftermarket exhaust until afterwards when I was cleaning it.
The dealer is being a doucheb** and does not want to take any responsibility seeing how the car was sold "as is", even though he stated that everything in the car was stock.
First of all, welcome ro FerrariLife!
I think I am missing something....did you buy the Ferrari for yourself or to sell it on in Norway? You being an importer, and obviously aware of the laws in Norway it sounds like a proper PPI should have been the first thing to do before even thinking about buying a an Fcar. Many owners have done mod's on their cars, the exhaust being a very common and obvious one. Besides a PPI to find out about mod's, it will tell you about the state of the car which is by far the most important thing to know as maintaining an Fcar can be very expensive as we all know on this forum. Take advantage of this forum, there's a wealthh of knowledge here and I am sure someone would have been able to put you in the right direction for a PPI in the North of Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter.
Anyway, if it's about the exhaust, I think it can be brought back to original without it costing you a fortune....

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post #13 of 17 Old 03-27-2012, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
in my state, we have a three day right of rescission. I would take advantage of that.

how hard are original exhausts to get used? i would imagine they would be giving them away considering all the aftermarkets that go on 360's. my 328 exhaust has been collecting dust for years and i would probably let it go cheap. More importantly, why would you want one? put a capristo on there.

+1 why would you want one, there are so many better exhaust out there that make it the 360 sound amazing.

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post #14 of 17 Old 03-27-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne612 View Post
Dealer should know everything - whether or not it's on consignment.

Not to rant - but isn't that the whole idea of buying a Ferrari from the dealer.

Especially on obvious faults - would be very interesting to know if there is any standards from FNA regarding selling used Ferrari's under or out of warranty.

If the dealer owns the car - I guarantee you the dealer ran their own PPI or whatever to learn everything about the vehicle.

Question is do they have to disclose that finding when asked specifically - my guess is yes!


They are franchises and franchise law limits how much Ferrari can stick their nose in even if they wanted to, which they don't.

Dealer cannot disclose what he does not know which is why many avoid discovering problems. Many have strict rules about looking for safety issues period. No state tolerates selling cars with worn out brakes or tires. Those items are usually looked after but the rest of the car will purposely be ignored. Some dealers take the high road but it is in no way universal.
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post #15 of 17 Old 03-27-2012, 09:39 AM
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They are franchises and franchise law limits how much Ferrari can stick their nose in even if they wanted to, which they don't.

Dealer cannot disclose what he does not know which is why many avoid discovering problems. Many have strict rules about looking for safety issues period. No state tolerates selling cars with worn out brakes or tires. Those items are usually looked after but the rest of the car will purposely be ignored. Some dealers take the high road but it is in no way universal.
Thanks for clarifying.

Not to take away from the thread - but I bought a 16M and upon delivery I noticed a crack in the diffuser.

I was never told about the defect. Prior to purchase I asked and the salesman stated all cf was in good condition and showed no wear or signs of chips etc.

Given the fact I had no formal PPI I was SOL because it could have taken place after the sale.

Yesterday I finally received all the records or at least what they had - it states when they bought the vehicle there was a crack in the rear diffuser and sales was notified along with other items.

Recourse?

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post #16 of 17 Old 03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for clarifying.

Not to take away from the thread - but I bought a 16M and upon delivery I noticed a crack in the diffuser.

I was never told about the defect. Prior to purchase I asked and the salesman stated all cf was in good condition and showed no wear or signs of chips etc.

Given the fact I had no formal PPI I was SOL because it could have taken place after the sale.

Yesterday I finally received all the records or at least what they had - it states when they bought the vehicle there was a crack in the rear diffuser and sales was notified along with other items.

Recourse?

Most states have specific laws about disclosure. You also have the salesmens statement. If it happens to be in an email you should be able to convince them to take care of it. Much of business, even relatively informal business is done by email for the unspoken reason that there is a written record. People like to call it convienent but there is much more to it than that.

Often there are specific laws built into the regulations for real estate and car sales. Wherever you bought it, ask the agency of that state who is responsible for auto sales regulation.
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post #17 of 17 Old 03-27-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Most states have specific laws about disclosure. You also have the salesmens statement. If it happens to be in an email you should be able to convince them to take care of it. Much of business, even relatively informal business is done by email for the unspoken reason that there is a written record. People like to call it convienent but there is much more to it than that.

Often there are specific laws built into the regulations for real estate and car sales. Wherever you bought it, ask the agency of that state who is responsible for auto sales regulation.
Should have mentioned - it is in Beverly Hills again Thank You.

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