Ferrari 360 odd service history - Ferrari Life
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Ferrari Life Posts: 5
Ferrari 360 odd service history

Hi,

I've put down a deposit on a 360 Modena 1999.

The car has had 5 previous owners and mileage is just shy of 18K. Is it normal that it has only had four services? The dealer (supercar and luxury specialist) is reputable but I'm still a little apprehensive.
modenalover is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 05:06 AM
Owner
 
kulferrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NJ, USA
Ferrari Life Posts: 176
IMO it is not normal. Even when the car is not being driven much regular fluid services should be performed at a minimum. The fact that this hasn't been done or at least documented that it has been done would certainly serve to raise my eyebrows a bit. Given the relatively low mileage my first thoughts would be this car was neglected with each owner passing it on expecting the next guy to take care of the servicing. I personally would splash for the most comprehensive PPI. I believe there are also a few updates and fixes to look for in a 1999 360 but I'll let some of the more experienced members chime in on that regard.

Good luck with your purchase but don't let the fact that you've put down a deposit determine the outcome. If it start to stink, throw it away. If you haven't arranged a PPI, do it now. I'll add that a "PPI" performed by the dealer is next to worthless. Reputable or not, uou need an unbiased appraisal.
kulferrari is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Ferrari Life Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulferrari View Post
If you haven't arranged a PPI, do it now. I'll add that a "PPI" performed by the dealer is next to worthless. Reputable or not, uou need an unbiased appraisal.
That's what I was thinking too (re PPI by the dealer). If they balk at my request for independent PPI, I'll ask for my deposit back. Thanks very much for the quick response.
modenalover is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 08:06 AM
Owner
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,833
Walk. Don't bother with a PPI. Complete and total waste of money.


Too much that can be wrong that is undiscoverable. Coolant changes are an absolute must for the health of the heat exchangers. Gear oil changes are an absolute must for the health of the transmissions. Long term deterioration cannot be determined on either if they are not already symptomatic. You are looking at a car that has suffered from 15 years of benign neglect and that cannot be undone. The service history is a window into the owners overall view of car care.




Just a few items you want to see on any 99 360
There is no history of new motor mounts. Originals were junk and were a contributor to breaking the frames on the 99's.
Transmission mounts were junk
Transmission TCU's were junk
Starter ring gears were prone to breaking taking out the transmission case.




The market place is full of great 360's. Don't buy one that has been neglected it's entire life.




These reasons and more are why a service history is important. Well you got one and it is all bad. Why go further?


Oh. And I forgot to mention. 5 owners???? Do you seriously think a single one of them treated the car well when they knew they were only going to own it a little longer than a Rent a car?


Come on.

Last edited by Brian; 02-27-2014 at 08:51 AM.
Brian is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Ferrari Life Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Walk. Don't bother with a PPI. Complete and total waste of money.

These reasons and more are why a service history is important. Well you got one and it is all bad. Why go further?


Oh. And I forgot to mention. 5 owners???? Do you seriously think a single one of them treated the car well when they knew they were only going to own it a little longer than a Rent a car?


Come on.
I hear you loud and clear. Should have listened to the wifey and slept on it (the idea, not the car) before putting money down.

I've read the excellent Walkersport guide(s) (but the bit about service history left quite some leeway). You mention some hardware (e.g. TCU) that would need to have been taken care of if the car is a good example. What should I be looking for in a 360? Is there a checklist I can follow? Thanks for all the guidance.
modenalover is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 02-27-2014, 02:08 PM
Master Mechanic
 
ECSofVirginia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,219
Not much to add to what Brian already said. No one invested in the car and there is a lot more to taking care of it than a couple fluid changes. The only thing I will add there is that just the fact that it had services means little. You want to familiarize yourself with what a short cut service is and what a proper detailed service is, so you'll know what you're looking at when reading service history.


The easiest thing to do is start by looking at 03-05MY cars, which already received some upgrades from the factory. Then start going through the details of each. When a local client wants to buy a car, I spend a good bit of time sharing what I know about the model with them and help guide them towards buying the best car they can.


I recommend locating the service provider you will use locally and go to them for insight as well. If they are any good, they should be able to provide you a significant amount of useful information and really open your eyes to what you're trying to buy.


I get a couple newly bought 360's in the shop each year that rack up an easy $10-15k in immediate needs. That doesn't even start to get into the major long terms issues like Brian pointed out. There is a big gap between good cars and bad cars.


ECSofVirginia is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 03-01-2014, 03:41 AM
Owner
 
360trev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Ferrari Life Posts: 354
Do not fall into the trap that new people come into ownership of a 'Ferrari' often assume, which is the expectation that a 15 years old car will be 'concours' in every area just because its mileage is low and/or the bodywork looks well polished.

I would first advise yourself to become very familiar with what is expected of the yearly services (as if you owned the car already). As others have commented regardless of mileage the yearly fluid changes *must* be adhered to.

> Brake fluid unchanged can turn to jelly in the system making it a pain to ever get consistent braking again without replacing brake lines, etc.
> Neglected fluid changes on the gearbox and engine can diminish life expectancy of the engine, regardless of mileage.
> Most of the bushes are probably well past their best by now and (ideally) should have been replaced.

Ofcourse the early cars had quite a few recalls and updated parts too. If these haven't been done (and where usually done if the car was serviced in an official main dealer within the first 3 years of life) then the outcome of these problems could bite you too.

Not many people go out and change all the parts necessary to make the car handle like new. For instance all the suspension bushes in the wishbones, all the anti roll bar bushes, all the engine and gearbox bushes. All these things are expensive and time consuming to replace but by 15 years on they are probably tired and saggy. Time alone causes rubber bushes to go off just like tires. All I am saying is be 'realistic' about what to expect.

Its certainly not a new car anymore and not everyone is as fastidious about such items. Ofcourse I would at the minimum expect to see evidence of;

> Regular servicing every year (regardless of mileage)
> Cambelt and tensioner bearing services

Within the service file by now you should have seen ;
> Clutch change (and part update) - which may not have happened due to the low mileage so potentially a problem waiting to happen on a '99
> All recall parts changed (you can check the status of this using the chassis number with a Ferrari main dealer)
> Tires changed.
> Suspension Geometry checked regular intervals
> All fluids changed regular intervals.

Good luck.

PS. The workshop manuals are a good place to start for looking at the expected service items, you can download the 360 Modena ones here;

All Ferraris

Strive for perfection in everything we do. Take the best that exists and make it better.
When it does not exist, design it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough.
Henry Royce
360trev is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Ferrari Life Posts: 5
Hi 360trev,

Thanks for the input. Problem is that I now don't know much about what I should be looking for. What questions to ask and what lines should be drawn in the sand (aside from full service history). Apparently even main dealer 360s can be just an oil change away from giving Freddie Krueger a run for his money on Elm Street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 360trev View Post
Do not fall into the trap that new people come into ownership of a 'Ferrari' often assume, which is the expectation that a 15 years old car will be 'concours' in every area just because its mileage is low and/or the bodywork looks well polished.

[...]
> Brake fluid unchanged can turn to jelly in the system making it a pain to ever get consistent braking again without replacing brake lines, etc.
> Neglected fluid changes on the gearbox and engine can diminish life expectancy of the engine, regardless of mileage.
> Most of the bushes are probably well past their best by now and (ideally) should have been replaced.

Ofcourse the early cars had quite a few recalls and updated parts too. If these haven't been done (and where usually done if the car was serviced in an official main dealer within the first 3 years of life) then the outcome of these problems could bite you too.

[...]
> Regular servicing every year (regardless of mileage)
> Cambelt and tensioner bearing services

Within the service file by now you should have seen ;
> Clutch change (and part update) - which may not have happened due to the low mileage so potentially a problem waiting to happen on a '99
> All recall parts changed (you can check the status of this using the chassis number with a Ferrari main dealer)
> Tires changed.
> Suspension Geometry checked regular intervals
> All fluids changed regular intervals.

[...]
modenalover is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 10:38 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Santa Barbara, CA.
Ferrari Life Posts: 199
WOW ! lots of good advice here so far IF (note big IF) you don't want to buy the car.

I have a 99 and you need to make sure that the variator recall was done. With that low mileage you are probably on the first clutch so there will be some expense when you do a new clutch in a few years to the 6bolt update. The TCU on the 99's were not very good so a upgrade to a newer one is a good idea.

Now YES Brian is correct about the coolant corrosion if the coolant is not changed regularly, same with the brake fluid turning to mush. But the car is 15 years with 4 services, so that means a service every 4 years I would not be concerned about it IF (again note BIG IF) the coolant and brakes were done at those services. These cars are not the fragile crystal toys some people think they are, not as robust as a Chevy maybe but with a fluid change every 4 years you will be fine. If the fluids are 15 years old, RUN !
mikeyr is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 06:55 PM
 
chenglo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Midwest
Ferrari Life Posts: 531
fluids

Mike and others,


I thought the gold standard was all fluids every year regardless of miles driven. Is the 4 years that MIke is referring to the bare bones minimum?
chenglo1 is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 03-03-2014, 07:06 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Santa Barbara, CA.
Ferrari Life Posts: 199
Good way to put it, the Gold standard.

I said 4 years because most modern cars have 5 year fluid in them and yet most owners manuals recommend changing at 36,000miles which is between 3 and 4 years for most drivers. A Ferrari is not a driver (well mine is) but if the fluid can last that long in a normal car it will be fine in a Ferrari that gets 5,000 miles a year and not do any harm. I don't have any scientific facts or proof but I stand on my original words, 4 years will do no harm to the car with modern fluids.

Changing the oil every 6,000 miles meant that last year I did 2 oil changes, but I only did one coolant change. I prefer doing it yearly, its cheap insurance but a car that has skipped a year or 2 of coolant change would not scare me at all to purchase. I would just do it now and maintain from now on. Now that I think about it, I did not even check my cars records to see if its coolant was ever changed when I purchased it. I was more worried about why it was towed in so many times and why it had so many electrical issues when it was towed in to be worried about coolant.
mikeyr is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 03-03-2014, 08:12 AM
Owner
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Mike and others,


I thought the gold standard was all fluids every year regardless of miles driven. Is the 4 years that MIke is referring to the bare bones minimum?


4 years is a train wreck coming down the tracks.
Brian is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 03-03-2014, 04:03 PM
Owner
Sponsor
 
David @ FluentInFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sarasota FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 956
Extended coolant change interval outcome...
Attached Images
 

Sarasota Italian Garage, LLC
Sarasota, FL
www.fluentinferrari.com
[email protected]

**An independent facility with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA**
David @ FluentInFerrari is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 03-03-2014, 04:43 PM
Owner
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,833
....
Attached Images
     
Brian is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale