Is This a Good Price, And What About The Future of the Market? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 10-09-2013, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Is This a Good Price, And What About The Future of the Market?

I've been a huge TR fan ever since I worked for Bob Norwood in Dallas back in the early '90s and got to drive the cars occasionally. It's really the only Ferrari I've ever flat ass lusted over. And I've found a 1991, red on black, with about 18K on the clock in absolutely pristine condition with all service done, and the clutch hasn't been fried, thank God. It's at a Lamborghini dealership, so I trust them about the car's mechanical condition. The thing really is like brand new inside and out. The only mods are an aftermarket head unit and an after market exhaust.

They're asking $64K for it, and said they're negotiable...a little. And from what I've seen of the asking price of these cars on the web, this is a good deal, but I thought I'd touch base with you guys to get your opinion.

And you're input is important to me because although we (my wife and I) could swing a 60 month note on this, it would really stretch us past what all prudence would suggest, and just about to our limit. I'm in the offshore oil business and make a pretty good living, but still.....

Because of this, I'm wondering about the exotic car market, both now and in the future. If I get in a bind, would it be hard to unload it? I know y'all don't have a crystal ball, but even a little speculation from you guys experienced in the exotic car market would be appreciated.

Man would it ever be nice to have a TR in our name, clear title, after five years! That's a dream come true to me. So chime in, guys!

Cheers!
Wendell
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-09-2013, 10:27 PM
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Wendell,
Welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place to learn about F cars.
Here's my 2 cents:
The cost of maintenance and repair must be factored in your calculations.
if the cost of purchase alone strains your budget, unfortunately, you can't afford it.
It is also not a liquid asset.

I suggest you download the Buyer's Guide and wait for some experts to chime in reguarding running costs.

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post #3 of 16 Old 10-10-2013, 05:16 AM
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Wendell, welcome to Flife!
Norwoods is a first class operation and like you, I too lusted for a Testarossa.

I went through a similar decision process when buying my TR 20+ years ago (and I still have it). Norwood provided upgrades (glass engine cover, F40 brakes, 18" HRE wheels). The car has provided many, many years of enjoyment and I have never regretted my decision.

I've been very pleased with the car's reliability and performance. It is "old school driving," unlike the more civilized 360 I own. With a tubi exhaust and no pre-cats or catalytic converters, the cacophony of the symphonic notes is incredible at around 3,000 rpm and up. At higher speeds you will finds the car's handling is incredibly light and responsive (I have driven it up to 160 mph). The lines are stunningly beautiful to me. It's my idea of an Italian muscle car.

Old 12's rule: If not now, when?

You'll be okay financially if you don't ride the clutch and stick to the preventative maintenance schedule. Find a good mechanic whom you can trust. Set aside discretionary maintenance funds so you can enjoy it worry free for years to come.

Although my clutch had about another year left on it, I had it replaced during the last major service and it cost ~$3,000. It was more cost effective to have it done while the engine was out for belt replacement. The oil and fluids service cost is on par with the 360.

Good-luck with your decision.

Last edited by 360 Modena; 10-10-2013 at 05:28 AM.
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post #4 of 16 Old 10-10-2013, 07:38 AM
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First problem:

" It's at a Lamborghini dealership, so I trust them about the car's mechanical condition."



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post #5 of 16 Old 10-10-2013, 01:28 PM
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We have a TR and I am in the Ferrari business so from that perspective, don't buy it if just the purchase is a stretch.

In fact I really don't think it is a good idea to do it on borrowed money but people disagree on that.


Owning a TR is a big expense and if the purchase makes you bat an eye you can't afford it.
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-10-2013, 05:26 PM
 
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I wholeheartedly agree with Brian Crall that you should not buy a sports car on the installment plan--EVER! The subsequent maintenance expenses will kill you!

I have NEVER bought anything on the installment plan except my present home in La Jolla.

My father taught me that whenever I wanted to buy something, I saved up in order to pay cash for it. When I went to buy a 360, I had set aside funds to write a check for the full amount. Don't bother to look up my credit rating, I told the seller, because I have NONE.
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post #7 of 16 Old 10-11-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Lehrer View Post
I wholeheartedly agree with Brian Crall that you should not buy a sports car on the installment plan--EVER! The subsequent maintenance expenses will kill you!

I have NEVER bought anything on the installment plan except my present home in La Jolla.

My father taught me that whenever I wanted to buy something, I saved up in order to pay cash for it. When I went to buy a 360, I had set aside funds to write a check for the full amount. Don't bother to look up my credit rating, I told the seller, because I have NONE.
Sage advice that I myself practice
And never, ever, use a home equity line of credit to buy an exotic or any sports car for that matter
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-11-2013, 10:39 AM
 
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Wendell, I can't speak to cost of ownership, but I recently (within the last 3 months) was watching an auto auction (Mecum I believe). They had a 90/91 TR roll across the block that was in immaculate condition. When the hammer fell it sold for less than $50K as I recall, with less millage (again working from memory).

Other food for thought: I've bought cars, although not a Ferrari, from people who 'needed to sell it quick'. My best offer would always be 15% under what KBB said the car was worth , or 15% under what the list price was; which ever was cheaper. Brian, Jerry and 360 are correct, CASH IS KING, and if I have it and you need it, I'm getting a deal. Just my two cents.
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-12-2013, 12:20 PM
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I agree with all of the practical advice given, especially if the purchase price brings about even the slightest wince, then this car, or practically any exotic, should not be considered at this time. However, I'm one of those who definitely is not adverse to financing an exotic (or a portion thereof). See, there's also another saying to the effect of, "whenever possible, use other people's money."

I wholeheartedly support the financing of an exotic (I should since I did this myself), but under specific conditions. I agree with the cash viewpoint only from the perspective that I think you should have the "ability" to pay cash. However, most folks don't (or shouldn't) have 65k+ sitting around in a completely liquid savings account earning .0005% return. No, this kind of cash will be wrapped up in an investment of some type. It still may be fairly liquid but if it's a solid investment why take those potential earnings away and sink them into something that will most likely depreciate. This doesn't make much financial sense. That being said, it has to be a loan with a rate that makes sense. I financed at a rate of 1.99% in 2011 and I have made a LOT more money keeping my investments than I have lost on interest.

There is also the fact that exotic ownership is not for everyone even beyond the costs. Sometimes this isn't discovered until after a year or two. I love the ownership experience that I'm thinking of getting a second (possibly a TR), but theoretically if I decided after a couple of years to unload my 360 I would come out of it in a much better position that if I had just paid cash. This is due to the fact that my money continued to earn more than the interest was costing me and subsequently I only paid a portion of the loan.

Again, my advice crosses paths with the others in that I feel you should always have the ability to pay cash, but I will always look for ways to use other people's money first.

Wendell, I don't know if you're in the position to be able to pay cash. I get the impression this may not be the case, but if it is I say finance away! If you run into unexpected maintenance costs you could always tap into that cash reserve if needed.

After that diatribe, please, please do not buy (cash or otherwise) this or any other exotic if it will in any way "stretch" or "strap" your finances. Many more bad things can happen than good so don't do that to yourself.
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-12-2013, 10:09 PM
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The only concern I read from your point of view is being concerned about unloading it. Not saying any of us would not have to do that, but if you have to do that in order to pay your mortgage etc, than you shouldn't buy one. Especially not a TR which will have a limited group of buyers.

That being said, I love TR's and I am chewing on the idea of getting one at some point, but things will have to become more stable in my career field before that would happen.

There are different opinions on financing an exotic. I wouldn't do it, but it is a free world. Brian Crall knows what he is talking about so pay close attention to what he says.

Wish you the best!
MB
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post #11 of 16 Old 10-13-2013, 10:51 AM
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post #12 of 16 Old 10-17-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone, and thanks so much for the advice. The voices of wisdom tempered with experience really does mean a lot to me. And although I know in my gut from my own past experience that I really shouldn't stretch myself, when I'm this close to actually being able to buy one of these cars for the first time in my life, I can't see clearly through the tears of joy, if ya know what I mean. Some people think of these as "just a car", but my passion, like probably yours, runs far deeper than that. And to muddy it up even more for me, I just turned 56 last month and I wonder....if I don't get one now will I ever really get one later on? Sadly, I don't have the kind of cash laying around now to buy it outright, so that's not an option. And I'm wondering, even if I do have the self discipline to save up for most or all of it and can put it together when I'm 61ish, will I be kicking myself in the ass thinking I could have been driving and enjoying that car for the previous five years?

Sigh.....decisions, decisions. I'm in a bit of a quandary right now, not to understate it. I'll keep you posted here on what I do. Either way, your replies have given way to a new discussion board I want to follow (at least that's free!). Stay tuned and I'll keep you up to date, and thanks again for your replies.

Cheers!
Wendell


Flash: And as I completed that little blurb, I got an e-mail from the dealership advising me that they just took a deposit from someone else on the car. Shit....that makes me wanna go home and get smashed and cry in my beer! Oh yeah, I forgot. I work offshore and I'm on a rig. No going home for two more weeks and no beer out here. Sometimes a guy just can't win....know what I mean?
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post #13 of 16 Old 10-17-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Allen View Post
Hi everyone, and thanks so much for the advice. The voices of wisdom tempered with experience really does mean a lot to me. And although I know in my gut from my own past experience that I really shouldn't stretch myself, when I'm this close to actually being able to buy one of these cars for the first time in my life, I can't see clearly through the tears of joy, if ya know what I mean. Some people think of these as "just a car", but my passion, like probably yours, runs far deeper than that. And to muddy it up even more for me, I just turned 56 last month and I wonder....if I don't get one now will I ever really get one later on? Sadly, I don't have the kind of cash laying around now to buy it outright, so that's not an option. And I'm wondering, even if I do have the self discipline to save up for most or all of it and can put it together when I'm 61ish, will I be kicking myself in the ass thinking I could have been driving and enjoying that car for the previous five years?

Sigh.....decisions, decisions. I'm in a bit of a quandary right now, not to understate it. I'll keep you posted here on what I do. Either way, your replies have given way to a new discussion board I want to follow (at least that's free!). Stay tuned and I'll keep you up to date, and thanks again for your replies.

Cheers!
Wendell


Flash: And as I completed that little blurb, I got an e-mail from the dealership advising me that they just took a deposit from someone else on the car. Shit....that makes me wanna go home and get smashed and cry in my beer! Oh yeah, I forgot. I work offshore and I'm on a rig. No going home for two more weeks and no beer out here. Sometimes a guy just can't win....know what I mean?
Fully understand all your feelings out there on a platform drilling for us after all. Anyway Wendell, believe me, Outsiders would rate me a very rational person, always trying to anticipate everything and expecting the worst outcome to happen anyway.....but honestly in your age (I'm almost the same age) forget about being serious and rational down to the "last screw". You dream of it....well then get it, this or that way (by paying or either by partially only financing). Fulfill yourself a dream. Go for it ! After all, if you loose some money on the whole deal when reselling...what the heck...nobody will ask you about money....but everybody will remember you as the guy who drove, enjoyed and owned his dreamcar. And who knows, enjoying this car will maybe let you fantasize about your Business/profession or what else potential, because living your dream opened your "creative box" toward life and what to do in the future.

A well known speculator once said that if you have lots of money, you may speculate with it. If you have average money you should not speculate at all. If you have hardly money you NEED to speculate.
All the best and now get that car you dream of !

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post #14 of 16 Old 10-30-2013, 10:55 PM
 
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-31-2013, 04:38 AM
 
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You have been granted a reprieve by the Ferrari Gods.

This was your first taste at procuring TR. It is an education. You are in the wanting stage stage and having and keeping have yet to come.

Trust the car dealer is no no. Do you realize beauty in this case is skin deep.

It should be all about the engine, condition. Did u mention PPI?

On an oil rig how many months before ashore..who is tending to TR.

Don't forget wife is a partner in this..will she drive and keep battery charged.

Or will she look out of window and see down payment on house or $$$ for home improvement.

The TR will always be there and dreaming of ownership is benign ...wanting is a lustful emotion and having is the sobering up after the party. Ferrari hangovers can be expensive and compounded tenfold if wife is intrusive.

You have been given a reprieve...you need to moderate lust with some clear thinking...as an aside find out what your wife really thinks.

don Knudsen
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-11-2013, 02:28 AM
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Shame this one got away, but a good chance for reflection.

I bought my cars with cash, but have bought on credit in years gone by and think it is up to you how you afford the purchase. The key word is "afford". Only you know your own finances.

Key points from the above that I would echo :-

- budget for the maintenance costs or forget it (and they won't come along predictably or linearly)
- if your partner isn't on board then think twice. I am very lucky that my wife is a fellow gear head and she loves the whole classic car community/scene
- the asset isn't liquid. If you could realistically find yourself needing to sell in a hurry then don't do it
- you must have a mechanic/shop that you trust
- beauty is indeed skin deep. You can't really check too much. (It may still cost you 5K a week later but the right car will bear the cost well)
- otherwise....do it!! I have zero regrets and sincerely echo 212's comments about actually getting to drive your dream

Good luck!

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