F430 or F360? In terms of maintenance.... - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 38 Old 09-15-2013, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
F430 or F360? In terms of maintenance....

Hi I'm looking to purchase a Ferrari, first time ever, so a bit clueless. I will be buying a second hand and would like to go for a Spyder. Right now where I'm located second hand F360 Spyders (2001-2002 models) are around US$100,000. The F430 Spyders (2005 models) are around $200,000 so quite a substantial difference (I've actually considered waiting 2-3 years for price to come down a bit).

I was thinking about the F360 but from what I read the engine isn't chain so a lot more expensive to maintain? In terms of maintenance I've already allotted 2k each year (I don't plan to sell the car back, will just keep it for life...). My question is... should I be allotting more for maintenance and repair? I've read that F360 parts are out of stock or something as it is outdated.. does that mean I should really be allotting a lot more for maintenance? How difficult will it become to located parts for those of you that own older models wher parts are discontinued?
alextn99 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 03:24 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,303
Welcome to the forum Alex.
I suggest you download the Buyer's Guide, it should answer many of your questions.
However, $2K should be more than enough for yearly maintenance if you get a good car to begin with.

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #3 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Thanks killer58, i will definitely do that. Just wondering, does it become increasingly expensive if parts are older? I would assume naturally that a 1980 ferrari probably costs a lot more for maintenance, etc then a 2005 in terms of sourcing parts (ie a 1980 screw might be 10x of a 2005 screw that is still in production)... or is this not the case?

Is it easy to find other parts?
alextn99 is offline  
 
post #4 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 09:09 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,846
Alex- Welcome to Ferrari Life. The prices you are quoting for the F430 Spider are way too high. Look through E-Bay for some representative numbers. In general, the F430 costs less to maintain than the 360 because it has chain driven cams instead of the 360s' belt-driven cams that require new cam belts every 3 years. The F430 clutch is also an upgraded model and tougher than the 360's.

In many cases, aftermarket sources step in to provide parts and reliability upgrades for older Ferraris, like the 308 and 328, in the form of modern ignition systems, better spark plug wires, trim pieces, etc. So maintaining a simpler 328 probably costs no more than maintaining a 360 and does not require access to factory diagnostic tools.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
tazandjan is online now  
post #5 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 09:22 AM
Owner
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,833
Belt change expense in a 360 isn't that high at the right shop.

If you plan on having it a long time and are maint/repair expense averse stay away from Spiders (the tops are complex and expensive to fix) and F1's. Long term ownership means probably spending money on one or both.

The F1 system is, like the top, complex and expensive to fix but also on average the clutches do not last as long.

Last edited by Brian; 09-16-2013 at 09:28 AM.
Brian is offline  
post #6 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Ah thanks for your insight on the F1 and spyder. Darn that's a shame since i really wanted a spyder too! How much more should i budget in for the convertible top?

Re Tazandjan comment: Unfortunately i'm located in Hong Kong and all cars have a 100% import tax so that's why the price is so much higher vs other places.
alextn99 is offline  
post #7 of 38 Old 09-17-2013, 02:13 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,303
Alex, if you can afford $2K a year for maintenance, you'll do just fine. Save a little of that each year and you'll have enough for the bigger expenses. I've found that like the car itself, the top likes to be exercised regularly. And I never store it in the down position for extended periods.

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #8 of 38 Old 09-17-2013, 04:52 AM
Owner
 
BluNart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New England, USA
Ferrari Life Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextn99 View Post
Hi I'm looking to purchase a Ferrari, first time ever, so a bit clueless. I will be buying a second hand and would like to go for a Spyder. Right now where I'm located second hand F360 Spyders (2001-2002 models) are around US$100,000. The F430 Spyders (2005 models) are around $200,000 so quite a substantial difference (I've actually considered waiting 2-3 years for price to come down a bit).

I was thinking about the F360 but from what I read the engine isn't chain so a lot more expensive to maintain? In terms of maintenance I've already allotted 2k each year (I don't plan to sell the car back, will just keep it for life...). My question is... should I be allotting more for maintenance and repair? I've read that F360 parts are out of stock or something as it is outdated.. does that mean I should really be allotting a lot more for maintenance? How difficult will it become to located parts for those of you that own older models wher parts are discontinued?
If your plans are to "own for life" IMO $2k/yr for service is grossly underestimated when you factor the proper annual fluid service alone will run 1200-1600 depending on the shop. If you're leaning towards a 360 and in for the long haul stick with the 2nd generation if your purchase budget permits ('03-04). Same with 430 if you're stretching your budget ('07?-,09)

Ferrari: 2001 360 Modena Coupe
Other: 2004 C5 Coupe
BluNart is offline  
post #9 of 38 Old 09-17-2013, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Hi Killer how long have you owned your soft top Ferrari for? How much does it cost to replace the whole thing? I've read older posts saying it's easily 20k.is that accurate?

To Blunart: what is a good budget for you? I guess I expect to own for at least 10 years let's say. If I decide to resell assuming limited driving etc would you say depreciation of 50% is reasonable? What's the diff with the second Gen models?
alextn99 is offline  
post #10 of 38 Old 09-17-2013, 07:39 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,303
I've had my Spider for three years. It's a 2004 and had only one top "issue" since new - I stored it with the top down over the fist winter I owned it (in California). Come spring, it was a little cranky and got stuck mid-cycle. I lowered it, cycled the power, and tried it again. It then worked perfectly with no problems since.

I think $20K estimate for a top is off by a considerable amount, but I'll let the experts we have here give you an more accurate one.

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #11 of 38 Old 09-17-2013, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Hi killer. is that off to the upside? or downside? haha.
I hope that it's not in excess of 20k?
alextn99 is offline  
post #12 of 38 Old 09-18-2013, 01:54 PM
Owner
 
BluNart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New England, USA
Ferrari Life Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextn99 View Post
Hi Killer how long have you owned your soft top Ferrari for? How much does it cost to replace the whole thing? I've read older posts saying it's easily 20k.is that accurate?

To Blunart: what is a good budget for you? I guess I expect to own for at least 10 years let's say. If I decide to resell assuming limited driving etc would you say depreciation of 50% is reasonable? What's the diff with the second Gen models?
Your location, age, driving history and # of miles expected per year factor into your annual cost as much as the vehicle itself. Share some more data about your profile and I'll certainly give an opinion to what you might expect annually.

Read the 360/430 section for model differences by generation/year. Great content there which should get 90% of what you're looking for. In general like most auto makers the later you buy into a production run the more updates you might expect - mechanical, software, material...

Ferrari: 2001 360 Modena Coupe
Other: 2004 C5 Coupe
BluNart is offline  
post #13 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Hi Blunart.
Location: I'm located in Hong Kong
Age: 33
I've never really driven much sports cars... just Mercedes C, E, etc so definitely a newbie. I probably will use it less than 10,000 km a year.

I've searched the forum and tried to locate differences but only came across this thread http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/mo...fferences.html

Would you have a better suggestion for search words? Thanks
alextn99 is offline  
post #14 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 06:55 AM
Owner
 
IDriveM5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Ferrari Life Posts: 270
Maybe step back and look at the forest, instead of two trees?

I think what we haven't really gotten down to is that the 360 and the F430 are reasonably different to drive. If you're on the fence between the two, and you're concerned about maintenance costs (which are generally higher for a Ferrari, regardless of the model, than your usual M-B cars), then test drive both of them and see what speaks to you. Maybe then we can give you a better idea of the maintenance costs. We can say all day long that F430 maintenance costs are lower than 360's, it's pretty much fact. But the magnitude of the difference is up for debate. Also, we don't know your personal feelings on the larger up front cost of an F430, versus the down-the-road incremental cost increases for operating a 360. Think about how much maintenance you can buy for the $100k difference you have stated. If people are advising you to set aside $2k per month, and your term is 10 years, you're in for $20k maintenance, leaving $80k remaining (savings) from the acquisition cost difference. This is a very simple calculation - there are many other excluded variables!

I bought a 2001 360 Spider F1 - so right up "problem alley" according to Brian (he is a respected Ferrari mechanic). However, and lucky for me, my car has an excellent top operation (as of now) and a great F1 system history (again, as of now). Totally agree that fixed top 6 speeds are generally lower maintenance costs. But, I wanted a Spider and F1 gearbox, and I can pay for those today and to repair them down the road, so I did. I haven't looked back.

I also have to think about belt replacements - oh well, so be it. After I bought my car, I sank almost $25k USD in various repairs, enhancements, and improvements. I'm fine with that - the money went a long way towards buying problem-free miles. High-ticket items included all four brakes, new exhaust headers, new exhaust cats, a paint correction and interior detailing, installation of a rear challenge grill, and replacement of all eight intake manifold gaskets. These cars aren't problem free, and problems are expensive to fix. Fortunately, that's all it takes - throw money at it and you have your result, so it's easy.

I would seriously advise the test drive in both before you try to figure out which one is the right car based on operating costs. Buying your first Ferrari is as much an emotional decision as it is a comparison of dollars and cents. Bottom line, know what you want - find it, and go in with your eyes wide open. That process took me 1 year.

Edit: PS I love Hong Kong! Did some business with the Jardines Group several years ago.
IDriveM5 is offline  
post #15 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Hi IDRIVE thanks for your advice, much appreciated for the long and detailed post. Just wondering, when did you buy the 2001 Spider? Also how much do you calculate for depreciation per year also?

I will definitely do a test drive and keep your advice in mind... thanks!

PS: Yes HK is great however not a lot of places to put the Ferrari to full speed unfortunately!
alextn99 is offline  
post #16 of 38 Old 09-20-2013, 04:29 AM
Owner
 
IDriveM5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Ferrari Life Posts: 270
Alex,
You're welcome. And welcome to FLife.

I purchased my 2001 Spider in April, 2013. So, I have basically had it for this summer.
As far as "depreciation" goes, the 360's (especially earlier cars like mine) have essentially flattened out. In some cases, they have seasonal increases in value, but at this point, any changes are essentially marginal.

What WILL happen is that 360's will decline in selling prices based upon mileage/condition/history. These days, if they swing by $1-$2k per year, that's about it.
IDriveM5 is offline  
post #17 of 38 Old 09-21-2013, 02:47 AM
Owner
 
BluNart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New England, USA
Ferrari Life Posts: 479
Alex,
Apologize for the delay, was hoping to get some insight from a friend in HK for insurance, fuel, taxes, labor rates w/ transportation, etc that factor into a full year allocation for a 360/430. Without that I can tell you what I've estimated from 10yrs of invoice history review over a several gen-1 360's. All-in you might expect $3.4/mile. If you plan to drive 10k that's on the high end of the scale I set which I would adjust to $2.8/mile. I average 13.3m/gl and service beyond what the factory book tells you (example: I flush 50% coolant and replace gear oil with filter inspection annually which on a 360 requires the rear bumper to come off) so the $/m estimate can certainly be argued.

I agree the gen-1 360 has little depreciation left unless you load on the mileage and don't maintain the car. Most Ferrari buyers are educated so what you don't maintain will be factored into the sell later anyway. This is why you'll see a wide spread in the listing. Check out Aldous Voice for a great depreciation curve he recently created for the UK. IMO a quick conversion to USD and it holds true; Aldous Voice | Full of useful Ferrari info…. He's got a lot of additional content on a 360 too - great site.

The Ferrari database is also a good source for manuals but I'm struggling to find a purchase guide that I remember reading?? It broke down some of the differences between the models & years, which for the 360 the updated TCU/ECU is one of the most significant updates.
All Ferraris

IMO the 360 is a perfect first Ferrari and in time will be added to the buy & hold models. While it was the 'massed produced' child of the bunch if you care for it the investment should hold - I'd love to own a 458 but the cost of ownership even years from now is a steep difference, making the 360 a great choice.

Keep us updated on your search. Learn about 'the sticky' too if you haven't done so already and as said before, buy the best car you can afford

Ferrari: 2001 360 Modena Coupe
Other: 2004 C5 Coupe
BluNart is offline  
post #18 of 38 Old 09-21-2013, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Ferrari Life Posts: 9
Hi BluNart thanks for your info and detailed response... much appreciated!
I have spoken to a few guys in HK now and they told me that in HK due to only a limited number of mechanics and shops... they said I should make it 5-6k USD annually to budget which I guess is affordable.

Having said that I think i will wait 1-2 years for the 430 to come down in price a bit before making the plunge. Some have told me that I could buy some of the poorly maintained 360's in HK (costs around $90k USD here) and put in around 15K and could get it up and running but it seems that waiting a year or 2 for a 430 to come down to $120K usd might be a better choice for me. Still thinking but will keep looking around on the used car sites to see if anything catches my eye. Thanks again for your help! Will give those threads you mentioned a look too.

PS: What do you mean by learn about the sticky?
alextn99 is offline  
post #19 of 38 Old 09-21-2013, 10:26 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,303
Alex,
I strongly suggest you drive both before making your decision. Although the 430 is admittedly a "better" car, with several improvements over the 360, we much preferred the look and feel of the 360. While the 430 was an exciting ride, we really bonded with the 360. And it was the one that kept me awake at night.

We've heard similar stories from many people who describe finding "the one."

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #20 of 38 Old 09-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Santa Barbara, CA.
Ferrari Life Posts: 199
+1

If I was given a 430, it would be for sale so I could buy a second 360, they are just so pretty and perfect. The 430 may be a better car, it may be cheaper but it not as pretty. And the 360 is all the car I need.
mikeyr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale