how many with PPI gone good? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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how many with PPI gone good?

For those of you that had PPI's done, would you share your experience with how it helped your purchasing decision? did they find major issues? minor? glad you did it?
I'll start:

i hada PPI done last october on a red tan 360 on east coast. cost me close to a grand but it saved me from a possible problem car with weird engine noises and leaking steering column. Furthermore, it allowed me the chance to think about being able to acquire an F430 vs. buying a 360 and upgrading to F430 in 5 to 7 years. I am inching closer to pulling a PPI on an F430 and sure would like to hear some positive stories...thanks in advance...

Cheng
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post #2 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 05:50 PM
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I had Josh Hill of ECS do a PPI on my 550 before I bought it, and he found several issues that enabled me to get the car at my price, not the dealer's. I then turned around and had Josh sort out these issues + do some fun stuff with the $$$ saved, and I formed a great friendship with a superb young tech in the process. I'm very glad I did it and would definitely do it again.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #3 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 07:18 PM
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Thanks John . Cheng, As with any service, the money is well spent if you receive the service you require. It sounds as though your first PPI was of great value in helping you protect your money.

I've never had a client feel as though they chose poorly when paying for a PPI. I do my best to protect them while being realistic about the car in question and it's place in the market. Used cars aren't perfect.


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post #4 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 08:20 PM
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+1 - IMO The only bad PPI is the one that turns up perfect on a used exotic.

Ferrari: 2001 360 Modena Coupe
Other: 2004 C5 Coupe
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post #5 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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well...

One of my potential sellers is implying that the reason why i want a PPI is to find little problems to push the sale price down. i was nice and kept my cool. i clearly stated that the PPI is to protect the buyer from buying a car that may need lots of service. It has been 48 hours and i have not recieved any service records. i did get 5 pictures of the drivers seat and 5 of the underside. car looks to be in great shape. Oh, it was bought from CNC about 4 months ago....so if anyone here knows this car, please shout out LOUD! staying on topic...there;s almost no way i would buy one of these cars without a PPI wtih compression. your responses are very much appreciated guys!
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post #6 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 09:24 PM
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Perhaps there is some truth to what the seller is saying. Perhaps he has a habit of selling mediocre cars at high prices. Either way, I have found that honest people, selling honest cars, don't have a problem with going through the motions. Maybe this seller would prefer to sit on his inventory until someone blind walks through.


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post #7 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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full price anyway

If the car had all boxes checked off on my list AND perfect PPI, i'd pay full price on thi particular car. it does have higher miles (19K) on an '06 for his asking price but again, perfect cars deserve a premium. not so perfect should not. again, reasons why PPI's are important. most of us are not mechanically inclined enoiugh or have the tools to travel and inspect cars on our own.
i agree if sellers are reluctant to allow PPI's, their cars are going to sit much longer. hence, th reason why most just expect it as part of the process.
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post #8 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 10:58 PM
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I had 4 PPI's done on 4 different cars before I bought this one, so total 5...
So in my opinion, all 5 went well! 4 showed me why NOT to buy the car in question, the final one showed why I should/could buy the car. So basically all PPI's are worth it. I think you do need to decide beforehand where you draw the line money wise or quality wise as almost every used car will need work one way or the other. And I agree with BluNart and Josh, used cars are never perfect.

Jeroen

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post #9 of 27 Old 04-09-2013, 11:53 PM
 
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I had 4 PPI's done on 4 different cars before I bought this one, so total 5...
So in my opinion, all 5 went well! 4 showed me why NOT to buy the car in question, the final one showed why I should/could buy the car. So basically all PPI's are worth it. I think you do need to decide beforehand where you draw the line money wise or quality wise as almost every used car will need work one way or the other. And I agree with BluNart and Josh, used cars are never perfect.
Could you please share as to why the first four cars made you decide not to purchase them as compared the the fifth? What was the difference in quality? I know money and quality go hand in hand as far as factors go but I would assume quality to have an edge in this case since you had gone ahead and purchased the PPI. As a future owner, this information along with other's would greatly help me make better decisions when the time comes to take the ultimate leap. I can't wait!
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post #10 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 05:01 AM
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Cheng my friend

I agree that PPIs help us decide whether the car in question has deferred maintenance and problems that we would not find on our own or as our surrogate for a remote transaction. The process is screwed up because there is no logical place for the bargaining in some transactions.

To me it is simple- the price of any item factors in condition. In order for many but not all buyers to assess condition we need help in many arenas ( house, exotic car, art,etc). We use these assessment tools to evaluate our position and make an offer.

In this market, buyers are still in control of the transaction for most Ferraris. If they balk at the PPI, then walk. If not, then assure them you are buying the car provided there are no major issues. Major issues they fix at their cost or you walk.

Jeroen- I have to disagree that all PPis are worth it as a blanket statement but in your case they likely were.

Cheng- I had two PPIs and I have to say they disclosed issues but my walking said more about me then the cars. Both were in retrospect ok and appropriate for the price and age of the cars. I should have bought the 456 in walked on. Nice cars, usual issues, maintained and a great price.

Last question if you are still reading- how long does a PPI confer assurance and protection- not one minute really. Perhaps you may consider a warranty? I am sure they could sell you one. I and many others deferred although the power/power cube warranty is a different item.

CNC is a sponsor here, no? Call them and see what they know.


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post #11 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 05:15 AM
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Cheng my friend

I agree that PPIs help us decide whether the car in question has deferred maintenance and problems that we would not find on our own or as our surrogate for a remote transaction. The process is screwed up because there is no logical place for the bargaining in some transactions.

To me it is simple- the price of any item factors in condition. In order for many but not all buyers to assess condition we need help in many arenas ( house, exotic car, art,etc). We use these assessment tools to evaluate our position and make an offer.

In this market, buyers are still in control of the transaction for most Ferraris. If they balk at the PPI, then walk. If not, then assure them you are buying the car provided there are no major issues. Major issues they fix at their cost or you walk.

Jeroen- I have to disagree that all PPis are worth it as a blanket statement but in your case they likely were.

Cheng- I had two PPIs and I have to say they disclosed issues but my walking said more about me then the cars. Both were in retrospect ok and appropriate for the price and age of the cars. I should have bought the 456 in walked on. Nice cars, usual issues, maintained and a great price.

Last question if you are still reading- how long does a PPI confer assurance and protection- not one minute really. Perhaps you may consider a warranty? I am sure they could sell you one. I and many others deferred although the power/power cube warranty is a different item.

CNC is a sponsor here, no? Call them and see what they know.


Scott
Scott, I totally agree with your points of view, also with your remark about the blanket statement that ' all' PPI's are worth it. However, I strongly feel that ANY PPI done will satisfy you as a buyer one way or the other. Based upon a PPI you will buy or walk which, in all of my cases, for me were the right decisions at that moment. I have never done a PPI with the idea to be able to bargain as I just want the best quality possible and the least unpleasant surprises for the cash I'm willing to spend. In some of the cases the PPI showed major problems that I, with my very limited knowledge, would never have seen, in other cases it proved that the asking price was way to high for that specific car.
But, at the end of the day, it all comes down to the fact that I wanted to rule out emotions as much as possible as I have also fallen into the very expensive trap of falling in love with a car and becoming blind for the obvious. Falling in love with a car without doing a PPI and being able to walk away when it proves to be bad (price wise, quality wise etc.) WILL COST YOU....

Jeroen

Italian bella's:
550 Maranello 7-2000 nero/nero
1974 Ducati 750 Yellow Sport
1974 Ducati 350 Desmo Yellow Sport
2010 Ducati Multistrada 1200S
(And a few Alfa Romeo's and Range Rovers)

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post #12 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 06:47 AM
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Even knowing the previous owner, personally witnessing the belt/tensioner service preformed where I work and personally visiting the Service Director at the local dealer who provided years of service history on the one I purchase - I still had a PPI done at an Independent (who I found had no idea what he was talking about) and then was offered by the local dealer to have a PPI done through them as well, which I certainly did.

I was even allowed to spend the whole time in the bay with the tech (5 total hours) who went over the car with me from nose to tail.

During that time - we found that the oil had been over-filled by 2.5 quarts (thankfully no damage) the gearbox mount was due for replacement, the PIS needed re-calibration which made shifting and overall drive experience much nicer, and the ebrake caliper required adjustment to keep the pad from constantly rubbing the rotor.

I think it is a very worthy investment personally.....especially for any Ferrari newbie like I was/am. Hopefully you can also find a trustworthy and customer focused dealer/certified and properly equiped tech who can provide the same service for you that mine did.
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post #13 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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thanks

Scott,

CNC may be biased at this point because they have a similar car that they are trying to sell me.

In addition, the seller fwd me a couple of emails from Frazier at CNC educating seller a little bit as to why i might want he PPI done (bargaining chip comment). i took no offense as some probabaly do so. However, i am in the camp that just wants to know what they are getting (condition/issues or lack thereof vs price).

Do any of you guys live in the newport beach area??? i will be visiting real soon to check out these potential cars.
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post #14 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 11:03 AM
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Cheng:
I see. That makes a ton of sense. It seems like CNC is in it for the long run and their reputation is more than the sale of a car. Whatever you wind up with it feels like its coming soon. BTW you did warn us- you mentioned how much research you did with your previous hobbies.

Good luck. Sounds like a plan- going out to see them that is. I can't wait to hear about your first owner drive my friend.


Scott

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post #15 of 27 Old 04-10-2013, 08:35 PM
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Cheng, You're paying for the PPI, why would the seller object. If anything it gets you committed. I wouldn't buy an expensive car without a PPI.

Dan
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post #16 of 27 Old 04-11-2013, 06:04 AM
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Cheng, You're paying for the PPI, why would the seller object. If anything it gets you committed. I wouldn't buy an expensive car without a PPI.
The seller is hoping to protect his asking price, or at least something close to it.

Apparently, the seller is concerned that Cheng will use the information gained from PPI to leverage a lower sale price. In some cases, maybe that's justified. But, if the car has nothing to hide, then it can't really reduce the selling price that much!
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post #17 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 04:27 PM
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The PPI I had done on the '89 328 GTS I bought (performed at Scuderia Rampante in Boulder, CO) was definitely worth the time and the relatively minor cost. In addition to the kinds of checks you'd expect, a range of other aspects were examined, such as whether serial numbers matched on various parts, less-obvious things such as whether the fuse box showed any evidence of overheating, and just an overall general assessment of how "good" of a 328 this one was. This included a drive with me as a passenger, with Dave Helms giving me a running commentary of his impressions of different characteristics of the car. That sort of assessment obviously requires that the PPI be done by someone with extensive experience. Since this is my first (and probably only) Ferrari, having that kind of overview done, with me observing all the steps, was invaluable.
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post #18 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
I had Josh Hill of ECS do a PPI on my 550 before I bought it, and he found several issues that enabled me to get the car at my price, not the dealer's. I then turned around and had Josh sort out these issues + do some fun stuff with the $$$ saved, and I formed a great friendship with a superb young tech in the process. I'm very glad I did it and would definitely do it again.
+1

I had Josh do the PPI on my Spider. While Josh didn't turn up any major mechanical faults, he did uncover a couple issues the owner did not know about (or divulge) which helped reduce the price $20K.

Wouldn't buy a Ferrari without some form of PPI.

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post #19 of 27 Old 04-19-2013, 06:41 PM
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I hope I'm not thread hijacking but I am curious about how we can do our due diligence in an auction setting where they only let you do a walk around? I hate to talk the auction houses word as to the quality or level of the car. What do you guys suggest.
Is there a way to get a PPI done in an auction?
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post #20 of 27 Old 04-20-2013, 02:14 PM
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I have asked several knowledgeable people that question (including the old curator at the Petersen Museum). The general answer was that for a classic, they would already be familiar with the car, its service history, ownership & use history, etc. The owner and auction house made sure all the right people knew it would be at the auction. Its at the auction to get the maximum price.
I think it's a very risky place to buy a 'modern' Ferrari, where repair costs can easily swamp a 'good' buy. Same is true on any car where undisclosed issues can ruin the buy.

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