Relevance of prior records and PPI - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Relevance of prior records and PPI

Hello Ferrari Fans,

Recently joined and having lots of fun!

I am looking for a 360 coupe and had a question for those that have gone through the search or are going through it currently.

Thus far I have yet to find one that has a majority of the records. Usually there is a good 3-5 yr of missing data. The current owners, when I talked with them did not really feel the importance as long as it passed a PPI they were satisfied. Just makes me wonder that although a PPI is great - can it miss things that are not "visible" such as vital engine parts that can go south if not properly maintained/lubricated.

I know some here have bought cars with less than average number of records, but is not there damage if the oil just sits there for years without being changed even though the car is not being driven much. I know that perhaps things were done, but in my book if there is no documentation then I assume it was not done.

Thoughts? What is/was your experience? Advice?

Thanks
Coz
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post #2 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 04:20 AM
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Welcome Coz and good luck with your search; it's a rewarding experience and a great learning opportunity.

IMO, the prior service records are very relevant and having them adds value to the car.

To me, they're analogous to your own health records, which is the first thing a new doctor wants to know/have when he's diagnosing you.

Also, knowing in advance the peculiar problems of a particular model is analogous to the knowing your family's health history. You won't find these peculiar problems in the service records, however. That's what these forums and owner to owner networking are for.

A PPI is analogous to a routine physical examination, ie it's not going to catch everything that's wrong - so having the PPI, plus the prior service records and knowing the idiosyncrasies of that particular model will give you a much more complete picture of the overall health of the car.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #3 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 07:54 AM
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I concur with Mr. Cribb. None of these things can tell you everything, however the more information you're armed with the better off you will be. I like to see service records before I perform a PPI so that I can attempt to interrogate potential on going problems.

Many mechanics don't fix cars for whatever reason, they get band aids. It's good to know where those band aids are to avoid opening up a can of worms once the title is in your own name.

It's also helpful to know who was in the car last, it can give you an diea of the care the received or to what parts were used during services to spot short cuts before they fester. Often I tell clients, service records are often just as impotrant as the title.


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post #4 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 09:47 AM
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The average Ferari owner used to be a hard core car guy and maintaining records was considered important. In the last 20 years that has changed considerably and many do not see any importance in it. It has gotten so bad that in my experience it is rare for the dealers to even bother marking the books. I have clients that have no interest in a copy of the repair order when done. That attitude has become a real problem. It is nearly routine for me to be asked to provide a complete set of records when someone sells their car.

I would not consider lack of records a deal breaker but the existance of a good set of records is certainly a plus.
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post #5 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CozFCar View Post
Hello Ferrari Fans,

Recently joined and having lots of fun!

I am looking for a 360 coupe and had a question for those that have gone through the search or are going through it currently.

Thus far I have yet to find one that has a majority of the records. Usually there is a good 3-5 yr of missing data. The current owners, when I talked with them did not really feel the importance as long as it passed a PPI they were satisfied. Just makes me wonder that although a PPI is great - can it miss things that are not "visible" such as vital engine parts that can go south if not properly maintained/lubricated.

I know some here have bought cars with less than average number of records, but is not there damage if the oil just sits there for years without being changed even though the car is not being driven much. I know that perhaps things were done, but in my book if there is no documentation then I assume it was not done.

Thoughts? What is/was your experience? Advice?

Thanks
Coz
At a minimum all 360s are not 8 years old. A through PPI is as valuable as a full set of records. If it passes the PPI with flying colors then I would not consider the lack of records a deal breaker. As per Brian's comment, it is almost easier to find a 308 with a full history than a 430 with even 5-6 years of detailed records.
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post #6 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 11:13 AM
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I don't consider records from somewhere around 5-7+ years ago to be of any importance, in my case my 99 360 is 13 years old and records from long ago are worthless. What I consider of importance are recent records to prove that its maintenance is up to date. What happened to the car 10 years ago is irrelevant. One exception is that I want records no matter how old of any Ferrari campaigns to prove they were done like for example on my 99 the cam variators.

What is more important than anything in a Ferrari is its current condition, not its condition 10 years ago when it was sitting in the garage not being used.

But I know there are many people here who are fanatical about record keeping, it makes no sense to me but I know they are out there and I think they outnumber me.

Oh, I bought my 360 without a PPI, but I did speak to the mechanic that had maintained it the last 2 months (the owner had only owned the car 3 month when I purchased it). That was the only thing of some concern in my mind, is that the car had gone through 3 states and 5 owners in the last 14 months, the mechanic is fairly well trusted here and the other forum so I trusted him the car was fine and bought it. Best deal I made in years, the car is awesome. It had some work to be done to it but no surprises, just what he had said.
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post #7 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 11:16 AM
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I'm with Brian. A thorough PPI is crucial. Records are nice. A car may have been serviced and still need major work. Unfortunately, the experience of receiving the window sticker and every subsequent piece of paper are getting rare.

Dan
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Past: 330GTC, 512TR
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post #8 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your insights.

I am definately all for a PPI and perhaps compression/leak down. What worries me is that I looked at a car, but was unable to get a firm understanding if the annual (or even the motor oil) was changed as there was insufficient records. That concerns me thinking that no one changed the oil in 3 years - I hope that was not the case but the car was only driven a total of 3K in that 3 yr period. It would be difficult to say if this will result in issues downstream as the car ages. How it will impact the car is a "?". Given that the curret owner put an additional 3K on the car without issues is reassuring, BUT it comes down to peace of mind/comfort. Boxer that is somewhat reassuring that a PPI can identify the condition.

Brian I think you are absolutely correct as my very limited experience correlates with the trend you are seeing. How then is one able to obtain records ??- I called several dealerships in the surrounding region and they had nothing to add.

Also I live in Texas and I have noted on Carfax reports that some cars fail emission inspections, is this a common occurance? Texas requires an ANNUAL emission inspection and therefore I have to be further stringent in what car I purchase. Cribbj I am sure you were in the same boat, being in Texas.

Josh ECS of Virginia - I do see the importance of records, hopefully there is an owner who understands the importance of documention and resale value.

Thanks again for you alls insight.

I am presently looking at 2 cars but awaiting to see if the owners can send me service history.
(2003/04, F1 Modena, red/tan 10K-high teens mileage)
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post #9 of 13 Old 12-15-2012, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Just noticed mikeyr - one of the car I had considered spent its initial years in Santa Barbara, but it did not have documentation, the owner drove it approx 5K miles over a 8 yr period. Do you know this car?
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post #10 of 13 Old 12-16-2012, 12:37 AM
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No I don't know this car, I bought my 360 out of state with 52,000 miles on it. With that low mileage its not surprising I don't know the 360 you are asking about.
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post #11 of 13 Old 12-16-2012, 06:38 PM
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records are nice. better is a nice car. it is one piece of the puzzle. if you can find one with all the pieces, great. i would rather have a glowing ppi than some extra records. good example, my car just had a major from one of the best shops in the country. i know it is right. it had a major 10 years ago that really sucked. same records though........records don't always tell the story. having a mechanic that knows what he is doing looking at it is much more enlightening.



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post #12 of 13 Old 12-16-2012, 07:38 PM
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Yes! Qualified and thorough PPI is the key thing. Records, a distant 4th.

Dan
Current: Scuderia
Past: 330GTC, 512TR
Quantum Mechanic, Quarks repaired, Black Holes refilled.
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post #13 of 13 Old 12-16-2012, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Ed and Dan - Your point is well taken and the example you gave made sense. I will get a PPI; I think records to me indicate that the owner had good intentions of keeping the car in a good state of health. Whether they went to the "right" mechanic is a diff story, but at least it illustrates that they actually cared for their car.
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