f430 vs 360 basics? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-29-2012, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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f430 vs 360 basics?

Guys,

difference between the 2 besides the obvious:

1. reliability?

2. maintenance expenses?

It sounds like the 430 is a more complex car and may be more prone to issues???
I am toying with the idea of counting all my pennies to see if i can stretch my budget. not sure if it is worth doing so. I read an ad once and i bought the into it: "Buy your last grill first." Whichever F car i buy, i do not intend on selling. I will buy the best i can afford even if it means, i'll have to pack a lunch to work instead of eating out.

Cheng
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-30-2012, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Guys,

difference between the 2 besides the obvious:

1. reliability?

2. maintenance expenses?

It sounds like the 430 is a more complex car and may be more prone to issues???
I am toying with the idea of counting all my pennies to see if i can stretch my budget. not sure if it is worth doing so. I read an ad once and i bought the into it: "Buy your last grill first." Whichever F car i buy, i do not intend on selling. I will buy the best i can afford even if it means, i'll have to pack a lunch to work instead of eating out.

Cheng
Remember, I'm just a buyer looking from the outside in. Here's what I have learned.

1. I think the reliability is a function of the maintenance history of the car. If you can afford a well-maintained example of either, then there probably isn't going to be a noticable difference here.
2. The major services are the biggest difference, with the obvious Belt Service in the equation. Most people say it isn't just the belt service which costs the dough - it's the other stuff you do while the belt service is in progress. It's sort of a domino effect. The major services on a F430 CAN be less money, because the belts are removed from the equation. However, IMHO, you should still plan on saving at least $1,500 per year for maintenance on a F430, whereas it might be better to save $2,500 per year for a 360. Will $1,000 per year REALLY make a big difference to you, Mr. Big-Spender-Looking-To-Buy-A-Ferrari-Dude?
3. I don't think I've read anything saying that, since the F430 is "more complex," it's more prone to issues. I also don't think you should look at it as a Ferrari to take to the grave. Maybe it's more of a fun indulgence that will keep you wanting more! Don't box yourself in before you've even started. I'm sure plenty of guys have said the same thing, but once you've been bit, it's hard to shake.
And if you start packing lunch instead of dinng out, just go eat while standing next to the Ferrari and you'll be totally fine with it. PB&J with a view of a Ferrari beats oysters inside a seafood restaurant with a view of the lobster tank ANY DAY.....
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post #3 of 21 Old 11-30-2012, 08:51 AM
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I suggest strongly you get the last few issues this year on the buyer's guide to the 360 and the 430 discussions.

Brian here as others mentioned in there make a great read on these issues.

I don't understand what your differences would be in differentiating the two as a choice. A 355 vs 360 would be a greater gap, but between a 360 and 430 not very much other than initial price and depreciation [which isn't a factor to me].

Obviously the maintenance, as shown in Forza, is relatively low for both. Even metal chains need periodic replacement and more expensive to do so.

Point being: Differences of these two is so minor that it's not a factor....just depreciation and performance.

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Last edited by Granucci; 11-30-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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post #4 of 21 Old 11-30-2012, 12:47 PM
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The 430 is a more complex car but that can be said about nearly every brand when looking at a newer vs older generation.

The 430 is also faster.

430 has lower routine costs but higher repair costs. That is changing though. Ferrari's normal pattern is to raise parts costs relative to current production models as the cars age. Some parts for a 328 cost more than 430 parts. 360 vs 430 parts are already doing that.
One other thing to consider in a 430. Probably at this point most out there have CCM brakes and those are heart stoppingly expensive to replace.

Buying a Ferrari is not a rational decision nor does it usually make good economic sense. If you are looking for that buy a Japanese car or an American one. If however you really want a Ferrari both are good choices but do not expect Toyota operation costs from either.

We are all here because we like these cars but something not usually said is that if writing a check for several thousand dollars for an unexpected repair is not acceptable to you a Ferrari is a bad choice. I have a car here right now owned by a first time buyer and he never thought it would just stop one day because a small $3000 part broke and he really can't handle that.
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-30-2012, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Im all in but just want the best deal for my dollars. Leaning much more towards 430. Just got off phone with mechanic who will maintain for me and its encoraging.
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-01-2012, 08:56 PM
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Here is my experience thus far...

Go with the F430, honestly the 360 really isn't that impressive. If you have to stretch your budget put off the purchase to pick up one. They will always be available and only continue to get cheaper and cheaper.

MUST buys...

4,500$ - Ferrari Extended Warranty this is per YEAR. This often includes the major service that is due.

Service intervals are every 5,000 miles - Oil Change Minimum Due
Clutch every 25-30K miles $5,000 +/-
Brakes last around 15K miles, alternate just pads and pads/rotor - Just Pads - 1,000, Pads + Rotors 2,250 or so
5K services 750-1,000 Oil change + extras
Major Services done every 15K Miles 1,500-2,000$

Prices go down around 30% if you find a good independent though
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-01-2012, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Chris,

there are only 2 shops that i would trust with my F car in my area. both of them are suggesting prices near what you stated above. I wish we had a dealer nearby though as i think this might get me the 30% savings you mentioned.

Cheng
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post #8 of 21 Old 12-02-2012, 10:26 AM
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Keep Looking! I use Fusion Motor Sports, they always have a ton of exotics in the shop they are working on and sell a few exotics here and there as well

Fusion Motorsports


They are only around 40 miles from me but with LA traffic sometimes thats a two hour drive (off two major highways from me... ayyy!). They send someone out with a flat bed to pick her up for me and return it the same way. I just pay for the tank of gas. More than worth the hassle for the extra savings!

If you find one 100-200 miles away, I would ask them if they would be willing to do this for major ticket services/repairs and you might wind up saving nicely!

Also for service go off of what your service book will tell you! Alot of dealerships seem to just do everything under the sun and it completely jacks up the price on service bills. Stick to the scheduled and pertinent items for service don't go balls to the walls so to speak!
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-02-2012, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Chris,

I've thought about flying in some guru mechanic to teach me how to do my own maintence. well...down the road when i don't work FT anymore. that would be the day!!
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-02-2012, 09:42 PM
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Chris,

I've thought about flying in some guru mechanic to teach me how to do my own maintence. well...down the road when i don't work FT anymore. that would be the day!!

I tried, then after discovering the facilities I would need and the fact that I actually had to pay attention and not just sit there ask stupid questions and eat pringles I realized I don't have the attention span for it!
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-02-2012, 09:47 PM
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Chris- Or the tools and diagnostic equipment. Normal service is no sweat. Diagnosing and fixing problems requires a pretty substantial investment.

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post #12 of 21 Old 12-02-2012, 10:42 PM
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Chris- Or the tools and diagnostic equipment. Normal service is no sweat. Diagnosing and fixing problems requires a pretty substantial investment.

I couldn't even build Ikea furniture for a friend of mine, I wound up hiring someone to do it and telling her I did it when she got home...

I don't trust myself in the slightest! I could just see myself "hmm this piece doesn't look too important, guess I don't need that!" when doing service myself!
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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ikea furniture?

Chris,

the ikea thing is funny. I have some idea of car maintenance. My uncle helped me do a lot with my old '68 Mustang. WE (i got my hands dirty with all aspects except engine rebuild) fixed, rebuilt just about every inch of that car until i sold it a couple years ago to start my own business. I don't think i could do the same on the 430 but hope to at least do fluids and down the road the clutch and belts. I realize there will be special tools and software needed but willing to find out. i just have to get the right car first.

Cheng
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 AM
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Cheng- No belt on an F430. You need to do some reading. You cannot do an F1 car clutch without an SD3 or equivalent. $20K+.

Taz
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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Taz

Taz,

oops. i did know the F430 didnt have a timing belt but instead a timing chain. That is one of the many reasons i decided to move up to the F430. From my reads of some of the posts about the SD2 and SD3 units on F-life, i am not sure if i will get to the point of owning one of those systems or the Leanoardo. I'll start with one step at a time: car first, pay for maintenance and observe, attempt fluids under observation of mechanic a few times while paying him/her full amount plus educational fee, then on my own. I'll let the shops do the diagnostics and repairs until i am in a position to work part time and play part time hopefully i won't be too old and have severe arthritis by then!

Cheng
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 10:45 AM
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Cheng- Have seen this sign at many repair shops:

Our Rates per Hour
$100
$125 If you watch
$150 If you help

Most shops' insurance policies do not allow customers on the floor while work is being performed. At least that is what they will tell you.

Taz
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 11:53 AM
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There isn't enough money in the world to have someone constantly interrupting while I am trying to fix their car.


I run a business.....not a hobby shop.
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
There isn't enough money in the world to have someone constantly interrupting while I am trying to fix their car.


I run a business.....not a hobby shop.
I certainly understand the joys of DIY. That's why I usually detail my cars myself, but it's time consuming and I have two young kids.

Some things are best left to a great professional. I personally consider maintenance on a Ferrari to be one of those such things. I'm reasonably mechanically-inclined, but I know my limits.

Mind you, I've never rebuilt a mustang....... I'm not going to pretend I know what that takes.
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-03-2012, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Raj,

Its a rewarding feeling when you are done and everytihing works. Its a pain in the buttocks when things do not go smoothly (stripped bolts, broken bolts, OR mice ate wiring!) yah, i had a family of mice nest in the air cleaner one winter! i could not believe it! I blame them for chewing up wiriing to my regulator...i laugh as i type this because it was kind of cute...i had neglected the poor mustang when i started college and my parents bought me a more "reliable and safe" car with air bags and antilock brakes hehehe. not quite the same experience as the old '68. Sorry i know its a Ferrari Forum...point is, its nice to be able to handle every single aspect of your pride and joy. I doubt i'll be able to with the F car but i sure will try.

Taz- you havea good point about liability insurance and all with the shops. We'll see what happens when i bring the car in for service. Its a small shop that takes care of 4 360's and 3 F430's according to the owner. I wont hold him to anything but be neat to see how things are done. For those that don't really care much for doing the work themselves, don't you want to know more about your car? It's intriguing to me thats all.
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-04-2012, 06:28 AM
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For those that don't really care much for doing the work themselves, don't you want to know more about your car? It's intriguing to me thats all.
I have no problem learning as much as I can about the car. It is interesting to me, and I'm anxious to learn more about the pros and cons of these cars and their construction. But, for me personally, there is a line I'm just not comfortable with crossing. If an action might adversely affect the car by being performed DIY, I'm going to leave it for a professional. I would NOT trust myself changing the fluids. I would trust myself polishing the paint or cleaning and conditioning the leather or prepping it for winter storage.... That's just me.
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