bummed out from PPI :(... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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bummed out from PPI :(...

Guys,

I feel bummed out because the PPI revealed a couple of serious issues. The red 2002 360 that i was drooling over may have to be passed up. tell me if this sounds bad to you:

-Salesman tells me body is perfect and never had any body work. repainting of rocker panels and front bumper only (common I'm told).
-PPI revealed RR panel was repainted and there are fish eye swirls evident in paint. He implied not a top notch job. he used a paint analyzer and found variations in paint thickness.

-exhaust was upgraded to X-Ost brand and was installed by professionals but inspection noted that muffler sits at an angle. Also, exhaust tips are uneven at the rear bumper with left side sticking out significantly more than rt side.

-PPI also showed chips on doors and a "poor quality" repair job of rock chip on passenger side rocker panel (not a deal breaker for me)

Now the most likely deal breakers (yes plural):

-"There were two things that we noticed which are significant. First there is a knocking sound from the steering column and we really donít want to drive the car on a worthy road test to nail down the other items on our checklist. Second there is a leak from the power steering rack near the left side tie rod. It is power steering fluid, the source seems to be coming from the boot. The rack would either need to be replaced or rebuilt." per inspector.

My simple question to you all is: Are these the kind of findings that make you glad you did the PPI and should suck up your losses and just walk away? OR should i adopt this car and suffer the consequences. It would be my first F car.

BTW the seller already said that he is not going to accept any more counters or help repair anything the dealer finds. I am starting to hear this repeated in my head: "Run Forrest! RUN!" j/k. Anyone out there who would purchase the car without any help from seller to do repairs?
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 05:18 PM
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Personally, I feel there are too many good ones out there to buy one with stories.

DON'T BE IN A HURRY. Use this one as a teaching moment and continue your search.

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post #3 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 05:29 PM
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Sounds like you had a solid PPI.

I would walk and never look back - we are going into winter not spring.

Old saying - trouble going in is double trouble going out.

On another note - Ferrari factory paint isn't great which is why the two I bought had special out of range paint not painted at the factory but at a shop near the factory - perfection!

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post #4 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 PM
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360's aren't that difficult to come across and some very ncie cars still exist. This isn't the right car to start off Ferrari ownership with.


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post #5 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 06:34 PM
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While it's hard to find a 360 without a feature or two, the concerns presented during the PPI aren't common, I would walk considering the premium they're asking. Take your time, the color combo you're searching for comes more frequent than others - steering & exhaust issues can add up quickly.

The inspector is correct. If a 360 has been driven you will find the front bumper has been painted at least once, or has a new clear bra replacing a weathered one, or both.
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post #6 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks guys. I will speak to inspector tomrw then let seller know i just paid big dollars to help him repair his 360.
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post #7 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 08:00 PM
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No Cheng, you paid SMALL dollars to save BIG dollars.

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post #8 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Thanks guys. I will speak to inspector tomrw then let seller know i just paid big dollars to help him repair his 360.
Let me share a story.

My 612 was on e-bay buyers made numerous offers at 127 - 117.

Ferrari buyers / tire kickers beat me up so bad I just wanted it gone and I assume my selling experience is similar to others.

My 612 was a damn good all around 612 with tons of options at 14k miles with a list of 332k.

Sold it for 112.5 and 6k would have made it a 9,7 out of 10 car - you have the power now ... suggest using it on the buy side.

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post #9 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 09:41 PM
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post #10 of 24 Old 11-19-2012, 11:26 PM
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You should feel very happy you did the PPI. Buying this car would have been a nightmare. If you end up spending $1k or even $2k on PPI's to find the right one, don't you think that was money well spent?

If I may be a bit critical, it seems to me there are several issues here which you could have spotted yourself - the exhaust, the steering on a test drive, the paint.

I would normally only do a PPI if I had test driven several examples, and already made the decision to buy. The PPI should only be for checking things you can't check yourself.

Don't rush it - there are a lot of bad 360's out there. Take your time and you will start spotting the good ones from a mile away.

Finally, my golden rule is: never buy cheap. Good cars will always reward you in the long run.


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post #11 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 03:07 AM
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Sorry to hear. Good thing the PPI helps you make a decision. Walk away.

Try not to get too attached to any prospective car before you're signing for it.

Good luck, the hunt continues...
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Thanks guys. I will speak to inspector tomrw then let seller know i just paid big dollars to help him repair his 360.
Something I've found helpful for a buyer is to know what questions to ask and what responses to seek, before getting into the PPI. Of course it can be difficult to see through a dishonest salesman, but sometimes it helps. You can catch them stumbling, making things up, avoiding the question etc etc. All good indicators that a PPI isn't even worth while.

I had a client that spent nearly a year searching for a decent 355 Spyder after learning what to look out for and what questions he needed to ask. At the end of it, he got a good car for a fair price and has been very happy. The diligence certainly will pay off in dividends.


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post #13 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 08:45 AM
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Agrred that the PPI is the last step in selecting a car. That will help minimize the expense going forward.


Also sticking to known, reputable, used Ferrari sources will help in finding a car that is more accurately repsented saving you time and money as well. I don't know where you found this car but examining that process will make it a better process too.


Many people find a trusted, reputable seller, broker or dealer and tell them exactly what you want. Let them go through the headaches of finding a car that is what you want rather that chasing around junk being sold as a great car.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 08:59 AM
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Very good tip Brian. I would absolutely trust my specialist to find me a car.


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post #15 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Personally, I feel there are too many good ones out there to buy one with stories.

DON'T BE IN A HURRY. Use this one as a teaching moment and continue your search.
Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne612 View Post
Sounds like you had a solid PPI.

I would walk and never look back - we are going into winter not spring.

Old saying - trouble going in is double trouble going out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01BluNart View Post

The inspector is correct. If a 360 has been driven you will find the front bumper has been painted at least once,
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Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
No Cheng, you paid SMALL dollars to save BIG dollars.
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Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Run Forest run.
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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post

If I may be a bit critical, it seems to me there are several issues here which you could have spotted yourself - the exhaust, the steering on a test drive, the paint.
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Originally Posted by IDriveM5 View Post
Try not to get too attached to any prospective car before you're signing for it.
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Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia View Post
Something I've found helpful for a buyer is to know what questions to ask and what responses to seek, before getting into the PPI. Of course it can be difficult to see through a dishonest salesman, but sometimes it helps. You can catch them stumbling, making things up, avoiding the question etc etc. All good indicators that a PPI isn't even worth while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Also sticking to known, reputable, used Ferrari sources will help in finding a car that is more accurately repsented saving you time and money as well. I don't know where you found this car but examining that process will make it a better process too.
+1 all excellent advice!! Will save you money and hassle.

Stone chips are a given of Ferrari ownership so most will have had paint, if it has been done well there will be very few telltale signs. One thing that helped me narrow my search (& save time) when looking was asking to view service receipts before viewing a car. If a car has been well looked after there will usually be a bundle of service receipts to corroborate the stamps in the book and the garage may have listed advisories of work that would need to be undertaken in future which in turn can be corroborated by later receipts. If there were no receipts or they were not available to view, I moved on to the next one.



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post #16 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks guys

I looked at all the service records available to me from seller. I asked quite a few questions also and asked regarding leaks more than once. Being on somewhat of a budget and time constraints from my business, i can't afford to fly out and visit too many prospective cars. Hence, i preferred to pay for the PPI and then if it checked out, i would fly out and pretty much seal the deal. On the next car, i might just fly out first. However, that could get much more expensive considering i will need airfare, lodging, car rental AND the PPI. Well, i suppose if i fly, it would have to be to an area of multiple possibilities. NOT the midwest that's for sure!

I'll let you all know that after hanging up with seller, i kept thinking..."what if they offered to repair leaks? what if they offered to re-paint the RR panel? What if they solved the knocking sound?" SOOOOoooooo i asked the wife. she said "ABSOLUTELY NOT." The hunt continues. I appreciate all of your comments and kind advice. I know i will find my F car. It is just a matter of time. My father always told me that if you have the money, you have the power and are in control, not the seller. Just don't take the wife with you to the dealership but thats another story.

Cheng
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
I looked at all the service records available to me from seller. I asked quite a few questions also and asked regarding leaks more than once. Being on somewhat of a budget and time constraints from my business, i can't afford to fly out and visit too many prospective cars. Hence, i preferred to pay for the PPI and then if it checked out, i would fly out and pretty much seal the deal. On the next car, i might just fly out first. However, that could get much more expensive considering i will need airfare, lodging, car rental AND the PPI. Well, i suppose if i fly, it would have to be to an area of multiple possibilities. NOT the midwest that's for sure!

I'll let you all know that after hanging up with seller, i kept thinking..."what if they offered to repair leaks? what if they offered to re-paint the RR panel? What if they solved the knocking sound?" SOOOOoooooo i asked the wife. she said "ABSOLUTELY NOT." The hunt continues. I appreciate all of your comments and kind advice. I know i will find my F car. It is just a matter of time. My father always told me that if you have the money, you have the power and are in control, not the seller. Just don't take the wife with you to the dealership but thats another story.

Cheng


You are making the classic and understandable mistake of allowing yourself to make an emotional attachment to a car you do not own and allowing that to try and justify making a bad decision.

I see people ignore advice and buy bad cars all the time and it has soured many on the brand.

Find someone who sells Ferraris that is trustworthy to find you a car. Then find your new mechanic and have him check it out. Take their advice and remove your "I gotta have this car" emotional decision making from the process. Also do not be in a hurry, time is on your side.
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post #18 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks Brian.

Appreciate the kind words. Any idea on how to find these F car finders? I found a mechanic across town that does travel to check out Ferrari's for other owners. Maybe I will talk to him some more about his fees.
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-20-2012, 09:18 PM
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Appreciate the kind words. Any idea on how to find these F car finders? I found a mechanic across town that does travel to check out Ferrari's for other owners. Maybe I will talk to him some more about his fees.
I have had good experiences dealing with Mike Sheehan: Ferraris-online.com Home Page
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-21-2012, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
You are making the classic and understandable mistake of allowing yourself to make an emotional attachment to a car you do not own and allowing that to try and justify making a bad decision.

I see people ignore advice and buy bad cars all the time and it has soured many on the brand.

Find someone who sells Ferraris that is trustworthy to find you a car. Then find your new mechanic and have him check it out. Take their advice and remove your "I gotta have this car" emotional decision making from the process. Also do not be in a hurry, time is on your side.
+100. You've got to be cool walking away....
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