Mondial VS 308!!!! I know this has been asked before! - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-05-2012, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Mondial VS 308!!!! I know this has been asked before!

So I have been reading on threads about buying Ferrari's, especially "starter" ferraris. Well here is the deal. I have two options

1) A 1985 Mondial (QV I think) Black on tan with 100k. Thats right 100,000 miles. HOWEVER two things about that. 1) It was inspected by a ferrari dealership and I know what it needs, belts, somes leaks etc. Basically 5k in work. The interior and exterior look AMAZING. I mean better leather than my current 2007 Porsche. So that says something about the owner. Finally I can get it for 13k. I maybe can talk them down to 12k but it was hard enough getting it down to 13k so lets assume thats the price

2) A ferrari 308. Specifically an 1985 owned by a ferrari mechanic. He is going to restore it for me and its got a completely rebuilt engine. Its going to be a top notch car when done. Belts and all just totally ready to rock. I noticed rips in the leather, that can be fixed. Most importantly the mechanics of the car are all completely awesome. It has 37k miles on it and I can get it for 25k

The question is what should I do? I know its hard to re-sell a Mondial but considering after repairs I'm into the car less than 20k, if I want to sell it will it really be that hard? I test drove the Mondial felt good, amazing ferrari sound but what do I know I never had one before. The 2+2 seats mean nothing to me because I always have another car I can drive. However I do want this car as a daily driver. I do about 4k miles a year mostly city.

Thoughts? I would really like input on what would be a better car to own and drive as my first. I like the refined look of the Mondial, which is a coupe and that makes it look a lot better than a convertible. But the classic ferrari of the 308 is great too. I need input!!!

Thanks so much!
Adi
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 12:55 AM
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When you say someone is "going to restore it for you" you have to worry a bit. While I am sure that the Ferrari Mechanic is an honorable guy, don't buy promises you can't enforce. I've seen work that has gone unfinished too many times in this business by well meaning people.

I would never purchase a Mondial, it's ugly, but I love the looks of the 308 (it's what got me first interested in Ferrari's as a kid).

Personally, I'd keep looking, unless you really love the Mondial. With 5k of work and a 13k walk of the lot price, you are in cheap, but is that what you really want?
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 04:55 AM
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Welcome to Ferrari Life adihed.

All things being equal, I'd take the 308 every time.

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 07:28 AM
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"The 2+2 seats mean nothing to me because I always have another car I can drive."

pretty much answered your own question.



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post #5 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
"The 2+2 seats mean nothing to me because I always have another car I can drive."

.
The topolino Ed?
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 07:53 AM
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Mondial is ok 308 is superior in looks and handling.

18k as opposed to 25k

25k wins every time.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Maintenance

I looked at some Ebay ads for 355’s today (for fun) and people are writing how they did a full service and it cost them 20k. Wow, that’s a big bill. I cannot take that hit! However I am ready to spend about 3-5K a year. Is this possible for a Mondial or 308? Or both. Like most people I have a budget I felt that 3-5k would even be enough for a 355 but what the heck a 20k bill! And I have read this on other ads too. 18K or 20K. What are these people doing?

By the way guys thanks for the input I am really trying to learn here. I am really good with computers and know what its like to be on the other side of the coin
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by adihed View Post
I looked at some Ebay ads for 355’s today (for fun) and people are writing how they did a full service and it cost them 20k. Wow, that’s a big bill. I cannot take that hit! However I am ready to spend about 3-5K a year. Is this possible for a Mondial or 308? Or both. Like most people I have a budget I felt that 3-5k would even be enough for a 355 but what the heck a 20k bill! And I have read this on other ads too. 18K or 20K. What are these people doing?

By the way guys thanks for the input I am really trying to learn here. I am really good with computers and know what its like to be on the other side of the coin
3k-5k should be PLENTY for maintenance on a 308 or Mondial.....it should be enough for a 355 too.

The 355 has some specific problems like bad valve guides and cracking headers that could lead to a 20k bill which is why it's SOOOO important to take the time to understand what exactly you're buying BEFORE you actually buy it. Most 355s have had the big ticket items fixed by now....some haven't.

A 308 engine with 100k miles needs a rebuild not belts. To drop the car off at a good shop and pick it up with a fresh engine will run you $25k, parts to DIY should be around $5k so at 12k I'm not sure how great a deal it actually is in you aren't the type who enjoys doing your own work.
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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I know I can always end up with a huge bill if I dont do belts and they can break or crack. So the car is actually with the mechanic now. He is a great guy, even drove the car home last night to check overheating (up hills with A/C on). I really think I lucked out with him so I will go by what he says and will also ask about engine rebuilding
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:42 AM
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A 308 engine with 100k miles needs a rebuild not belts. To drop the car off at a good shop and pick it up with a fresh engine will run you $25k, parts to DIY should be around $5k so at 12k I'm not sure how great a deal it actually is in you aren't the type who enjoys doing your own work.
I would agree with this assessment, more than likely a 100k Ferrari is going to NEED a rebuild, unless it was a commuter car. It is possible that if it has a clean compression check and solid leak down numbers that it might not... but that would be the exception and not the rule (for most motors of that era).

I wouldn't rebuild it until the numbers started to slip to be honest.
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by adihed View Post
I know I can always end up with a huge bill if I dont do belts and they can break or crack. So the car is actually with the mechanic now. He is a great guy, even drove the car home last night to check overheating (up hills with A/C on). I really think I lucked out with him so I will go by what he says and will also ask about engine rebuilding
did you buy the car?

The overheating is most likely the radiator. They are margin but functional when new and become marginal to nonfunctional as they age.

Belts are a MUST...but they will come with the engine rebuild Have a leak-down test done and you'll most likely find a top-end that is getting tired.....that's a lot of miles for a high rpm engine. It's possible that it's been babied it's whole life and has another 20-50k in it, but 60-100k is where they normally end-up in for a rebuild. My QV was toast when I got it at 58k when i got it, but had also clearly been over-heating which accelerated things.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 10:50 AM
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I wouldn't rebuild it until the numbers started to slip to be honest.
Yup. It's the top ends that give up first generally so check the leak-down and go from there.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 11:10 AM
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did you buy the car?

The overheating is most likely the radiator. They are margin but functional when new and become marginal to nonfunctional as they age.

Belts are a MUST...but they will come with the engine rebuild Have a leak-down test done and you'll most likely find a top-end that is getting tired.....that's a lot of miles for a high rpm engine. It's possible that it's been babied it's whole life and has another 20-50k in it, but 60-100k is where they normally end-up in for a rebuild. My QV was toast when I got it at 58k when i got it, but had also clearly been over-heating which accelerated things.
Yep, Aluminum motors will NOT tolerate overheating... If you see it beginning to overheat, EVER, shut it down and figure it out before it gets very expensive.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-06-2012, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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Update

The mechanic drove the car 40 miles A/C on, no overheating at all. He says its a great car mechanically. Needs work but nothing major (belts etc)

Question:
How hard would a re-sell be in Southern CA? Considering it will have everything done and all the paperwork but at 120k. I mean do you guys think I will have no chance to sell it? How is it to sell a ferrari? Like no calls. Thats how it was on a motorcyle for me once...
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by adihed View Post
The mechanic drove the car 40 miles A/C on, no overheating at all. He says its a great car mechanically. Needs work but nothing major (belts etc)

Question:
How hard would a re-sell be in Southern CA? Considering it will have everything done and all the paperwork but at 120k. I mean do you guys think I will have no chance to sell it? How is it to sell a ferrari? Like no calls. Thats how it was on a motorcyle for me once...
I'm a bit concerned.

Why was he checking the car for overheating? Did you have reason to believe there would be a problem?

Why was he driving it instead of just starting it and switching on the AC and letting it sit which is normally a much worse condition for the cooling system than a casual drive?

Have you had a leak-down and compression test performed and what were the results?

Have you or your mechanic actually gone through and tried every switch and knob to be sure everything is working

How do the suspension bushings, tie-rods, brake and cooling hoses, etc. look?


To your re-sale question, these are the things potential buyers are going to ask for and will check during a PPI and are the things you should also be asking for.
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 06:33 AM
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Adihed,

It's difficult to tell from just your first four posts, but you seem to be rather hasty in your decision. Kudos for joining the site and your attempts to learn about ownership. But you seem more concerned with gaining approval than following sage advice. And the primary focus of your questions centers on recovering from a bad decision.

If you cannot afford the possibility of a $20K engine rebuild, then you definitely cannot afford the Ferrari you're considering. Resale of a car with problems will require a buyer with even more disregard for prudence than yourself.

I mean no disrespect or to dissuade your effort, but you clearly don't understand the risks involved. I strongly suggest you do a search of this site regarding the two models you're considering AND read the Buyers Guides. You will find there is much much more to evaluating a Ferrari model than just driving it 40 miles with the AC on!

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Last edited by Killer58; 03-07-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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post #17 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 07:59 AM
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I say, don’t buy a Mondial just to buy a Ferrari. Mondial owners love them....if you buy an 85 one on top of it, you will be disappointed.

A 308 is a beautiful car but at a 100,000 miles….well, you seem to be worried about money a lot so I would recommend you keep looking for one with lower mileage. You mentioned he will restore it for you…..yeah right….he saw you coming. If someone says that about their car, that it needs to be restored…. that comment alone would make me worry.

Personally, I say walk away from both and keep looking.


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post #18 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 09:33 AM
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Personally, I say walk away from both and keep looking.
+1

I learned the hard way that a "cheap" ferrari is probably the most expensive ferrari you could possibly buy so neither sound very good to me.....I would keep looking.


Keep in mind that parts and repair costs on a ferrari are about 10s what they would be on a more standard car...this is the key point I wasn't understanding when I bought mine. It wasn't a $250 carpet kit it was a $2500 carpets kit. Paint is not $3000 it $15,000. It's not a $2000 engine rebuild it's a $24000 engine job and the list goes on. Expensive cars are made from expensive parts it turns out.

If nothing else, at least pay to have proper PPIs done and get actual repair estimates for anything the PPI turns up if you are serious about either car
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 11:56 AM
 
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Take my perspective for what it's worth, since I am not yet an owner.
I joined around 5 months ago, with the goal of buying within 12 months of that time. I am glad I gave myself some time, rather than jumping on the first couple of "bargains" I found. I have since learned that there may be no such thing in the Ferrari world. This is doubly-true if you intend it as a daily-driver.
Everything I've driven under $30k has been JUNK. And I'm not that picky. No way you make a car like that into a daily driver. I have not seen the cars you're describing, but ask yourself the question "why".

Why is this the car I want?
Why is this car priced under the market value for one in presentable condition?
Why am I tempted to buy it anyway?

If you can somehow remove the emotional "I really want a Ferrari, don't care if it's an ugly POS" component of the purchase, you'll be happier with what you eventually buy.

Just my $.02
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-07-2012, 04:01 PM
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.... I am not yet an owner.
I joined around 5 months ago....
You have learned quickly Grasshopper. Your advice is very strong.

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