Ferrari classic certificate - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-20-2012, 06:51 AM
Schnellmann
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Ferrari classic certificate

Hi

What does the "classic certificate" from Ferrari actually provide? If a car comes with this, how much comfort should you take from it? Will it make resell easier (i.e. if seller says he can provide if you pay extra, is that worthwhile?)

Also, is having work done on the car at Maranello a plus?

Thanks
 
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-20-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Schnellmann View Post
Hi

What does the "classic certificate" from Ferrari actually provide? If a car comes with this, how much comfort should you take from it? Will it make resell easier (i.e. if seller says he can provide if you pay extra, is that worthwhile?)

Also, is having work done on the car at Maranello a plus?

Thanks
Oh sh*t! You have wandered into a contentious topic here.

Classiche certification is now required for certain events and auctions that have Ferrari SpA participation. If these venues matter to you then there is basically no option but to have the certification.

Is there any value with Classiche on the Fiat era cars? My opinion is no unless the car has highly unusual features that such certification is the only viable way to have proof of originality. Now if someone else already paid for Classiche there might be some small amount that the car is worth more than an equivalent car or become a deciding factor between two of equal value. One thing you can likely count on is that a car that went for Classiche certification was owned by someone that likely believed in originality.

When you get to the older cars, and especially into the 50s and earliest 60s is where another level of discussions come into play. Cars from these eras had a lot more uniqueness between even sequential builds. The question that really is to be asked is who is the best source of accurate information on original build. Many argue that the factory records are not nearly as accurate as what some of the experts posess.

There are stories of certification done on cars that should not have been allowed. Allegations of influence onto the process because the car owner was signiicant or was a buddy of someone with serious factory standing have been made.

Quality of Ferrari restoration work - In 2009 I sat in a briefing on concours judging standards. Clearly they talked of the factory's work being to a lower standard of detail accuracy than what the best outside shops were doing. Is was discussed that continuing discussions were being held with the factory operation in the hopes that their quality standards would be brought up.

Likely more will chime in here.

Jeff
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-20-2012, 08:10 AM
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Our TR is Classiche Certified and I have had several clients cars certified.

It is a greatly misunderstood process and if you want the real low down I suggest getting in touch with John Amette at Ferrari Orange County. He is the leading authority on it in the US.

The primary goal is to assure the car meets factory specification as to materials used for possible past repairs and that those repairs were properly performed. Also that the car still meets it original factory specifications in parts and components. It is not meant to assure a minimum level of condition or that it is in concours condition.


In the opinion of most authorities in this country having the work done at Maranello is not a plus. If anything it is a negative. It has been shown time and again that the work is inferior to what is available here and usually far, far more expensive. Also they often take artistic license with originality claiming in their defense that if done by them it is OK.


I just saw that you are in Switzerland. I am not able to address the availability of quality repairs for you or the value of the process in your market. It is safe to say however that the process is of more value and interest the more important and rare the particular car in question is.

Last edited by Brian; 01-20-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-20-2012, 09:08 AM
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Brian,

Would you spend your own money or recommend that a good friend have certification done for a late 1970s onward car? Do you think that the Classiche process would find things that you or other quality shops would not find if doing a thorough inspection.

Jeff
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-20-2012, 09:44 AM
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Brian,

Would you spend your own money or recommend that a good friend have certification done for a late 1970s onward car? Do you think that the Classiche process would find things that you or other quality shops would not find if doing a thorough inspection.

Jeff


Depends on the car and why they want it looked at. My inspection has zero value except to a buyer and a buyer who knows me and trusts me. A Classiche Certification is not a PPI.




I have spent money and I have recommended the process but not to someone who wants a PPI.



Apples and Oranges
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post #6 of 9 Old 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM
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Hi all.
Also i'm interested about this topic.
There is somebody who have other opinions about this??
Thank you.

"il ferrarista",
Matt

Matthew

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post #7 of 9 Old 11-27-2012, 01:41 PM
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Hi all.
Also i'm interested about this topic.
There is somebody who have other opinions about this??
Thank you.

"il ferrarista",
Matt

It depends entirely what you want out of it and what model you are considering having certified.

If it is a 250 GTO and you plan to keep it until you die it has little value. Likewise if it is a beat up 308 it would be of little value.

It can be of value or interest in many other situations.



I have also said before, diamonds have zero value to me. I think they look like broken glass. It would be impossible to be less interested in them, but to some they are of great interest and value. Everyone has different tastes and likes, thats why God made Toyotas. I can't think of a single reason to have one but some people like them.

Last edited by Brian; 11-27-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-29-2012, 04:16 AM
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Very interesting topic.

I am not familiar with the quality of the Classiche certification, but, if reliable, I think in some markets, like in Italy, it is a big plus for buyers, maybe even more appreciated than a complete documentation related to maintenance.

In Italy there are four certification 'entities' recognized by the State and by the Insurance companies: ASI (which is for every brand, Italian or foreign), RIAR (Alfa Romeo), Registro Lancia and Registro Fiat.

The three Registers are by far more severe than the ASI.

I have direct experience with the RIAR and I can assure you that you will not get that certification if your car is not fully original, down to the type of screw or the type of clamp used. Not even after market optionals of the right type and era are accepted.

You can't even change the original color of the car/interior if you want the certification (or, if they were changed, maybe by the previous owners, you have to restore them).

The Italian collectors usually prefer a well preserved car to a fully restored one. I think this is the opposite of the way in other Countries, where even well preserved cars are usually over-restored and often transformed in "candies on wheels", which looks like brand new cars, except that the car, even when new, never looked that way !

In Italy a vintage car with its original license plate, everything else equal, is worth 10-15% more just for that.

Another thing I find funny is that foreign experts of an Italian brand think they know more than the official historical register of that brand in Italy, which has access to all the original documentation (even documents never made public) and, often, to still living witnesses of the time a specific model was designed and produced.

ciao
Mauro

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Last edited by maurodev; 11-29-2012 at 05:48 AM.
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post #9 of 9 Old 12-01-2012, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
It depends entirely what you want out of it and what model you are considering having certified.

If it is a 250 GTO and you plan to keep it until you die it has little value. Likewise if it is a beat up 308 it would be of little value.

It can be of value or interest in many other situations.



I have also said before, diamonds have zero value to me. I think they look like broken glass. It would be impossible to be less interested in them, but to some they are of great interest and value. Everyone has different tastes and likes, thats why God made Toyotas. I can't think of a single reason to have one but some people like them.
I'm considering to certify a 365 GT4 BB.
Do you think it can be a good thing for this model?

Thanks.

"il ferrarista",
Matt

Matthew

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