360 expenses - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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360 expenses

Hi. Can anyone give me an idea of yearly routine maintenance expenses on a 360 with paddle shift? How long does the paddle shifter last before replacement and costs? How long does the clutch go before replacement and costs? How long for the belts before replacement and costs? In general, are they a reliable bet for a daily driver not exceeding 5,000 a year? Thanks in advance -Bob.
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post #2 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 07:26 AM
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Welcome, Bob

Your issues are regulars on every Ferrari site.

You can figure $1K - $2K/year average maintenance.

The "paddle shift" is just a hydraulic mechanism for the manual transmission. All 360's have same transmission. Clutch wear is another item, however.

That wear is hard to know. The clutch mechanism operates slightly different from the manual, and, as such, driving habits affect the wear as does in-traffic vs highway use.

Belts every 3-4 years for safety.

Engine and transmission oil a minimum of once a year.

Hope this brief explanation helps.

More will chime in.

Last edited by Gcalo; 10-07-2011 at 07:52 AM.
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post #3 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks

Thanks for responding Gcalo. I am guilty as charged, but it is an important consideration for me as I can plan to afford buying the car, but I'm afraid of the annual expenses. Let's make it simple and say if I can afford $5,000 each year for routine maintanence (excluding repairs due to breakage), can I afford it? I guess this is assuming a 360 about 10 years old with between 10,000 and 20,000 miles on it. -Bob.
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post #4 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 10:46 AM
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It's hard to answer you positively, because there are variables. $5K/year for main is a bit high.

Here's a clue- oil change is about $400+/-; transaxel oil change is about $150+/-.
Now as to other expenses, who knows.

It's like owning an airplane. You average the hourly cost towards an annual overhaul.

So the $1K to $2K takes into consideration tires, oil changes, etc. and that works towards an annual.

It is not a Chevy. It needs care, but remember it's just a car.

You can't account for a part failure as it is a mechanical object. Things happen.
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post #5 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 11:25 AM
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I can answer that in the affirmative. I would think it would be hard to spend 25k in five years on a 360 unless you buy a dud or have extraordinarily bad luck. In fact, i would imagine some years you would only spend a couple hundred on fluid changes. 360's have turned out to be fairly well made, reliable cars. of course, YMMV.



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post #6 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 11:29 AM
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Bob,
Do a search on maintenance costs and you'll find plenty of posts. The predominant opinion says to budget $1.5-2K per year. That's what I'm doing for my Spider. If you can afford to actually put away $5K per year toward maintenance, you should have no trouble at all. Give Josh at ECS a call, he can tell you what current rates are for the most common items.

A separate seach for F1 clutches will return a year's worth of reading on the anticipated life of an F1 clutch as well as the factors that effect it (such as uphill in reverse!).
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post #7 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks guys

Thanks guys. I should be able to set aside $5,000/per for everything concerning the car. If this can cover it aside from catastrophic situations, then I feel better. I will be shopping in about six months. Now, I have another curve ball... assuming you liked both cars the same, would you spend $40,000 on a Maserati coupe, with the possibility of higher costs .. or $85,000 for the Ferrari 360, which is supposedly more reliable with lower annual costs?? -Bob.
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post #8 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 12:27 PM
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two very different cars. If you have not already, set up a visit to the dealer to drive both. Bottom line is these are not rational decisions and should be more of a personal decision. A lot of it has to do with what you plan on doing with the car.



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post #9 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi wetpet

Hi wetpet. I actually leased a Maserati coupe for a couple of years until Maserati bought it back because of numerous un-resolvable problems under warranty. The car was always in the shop. Even though I didnt have to pay under warranty, the car was a lemon in the sense of the time it was in the shop. However, I did love it when it worked. It was the right size, power and fun factor not to mention great looks. The Ferrari 360 falls into this category too. I personally would rather pay more up-front if the maintenance costs and reliability was better for the Ferrari. Is it all a crap-shoot with these cars, or is the Ferrari actually more reliable? -Bob.
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post #10 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbernst929 View Post
The Ferrari 360 falls into this category too.
Bob,

If you truly feel they're in the same category, if the Ferrari doesn't bring tears to your eyes, keep you awake at night, make you wonder how you went this long without it, and all day long make you ask yourself when your next drive will be, then save your money and buy the Maser.

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post #11 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
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It's possible to get a lemon from any manufacturer. have you driven the 360? i think you will find it quite different.



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post #12 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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I actually haven't driven it.

Thanks Killer and Wetpet. I guess the question is tongue in cheek a bit because while I have owned the Maser for two years and did enjoy it, I have never driven any Ferrari. But, for fun purposes, I expect I would enjoy either one. -Bob.
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post #13 of 45 Old 10-07-2011, 01:33 PM
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Bob: All have said what I would state.

The buyer's guide, shows a nearly good example of costs and not far off from today's prices. IF one wants to skimp a bit on oil changes etc. one may DIY, but, typically a qualified mechanic will look over/inspect other issues if you are unaware of Ferraris and report on items needing attention -- see page 7 on this link: Ferrari Buyer's Guides - Ferrari Life

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post #14 of 45 Old 10-14-2011, 11:42 AM
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Bob: Great forum/question here and I hope I'm not too late to the party to join in on this question! I have a 2000 Ferrari 360 F1, and think I can provide some decent insight. Additionally, I stumbled upon a website that has some good information to get you started on what to look for when buying a used Ferrari. So check it out if you get a chance its called EveBlue.com.

In my opinion I think you hit the jackpot as far as timing for buying a used 360. Just a couple years ago you couldn't touch one for under $120,000. I've had mine for about five years now and purchased it used as well. Unfortunately I paid a premium. So I would think of this as a "discount" to take into account when considering service costs.

To get straight to your point, I've paid quite a bit of money in service costs over the last five years for my 360. Well over $15,000, or $3,000++ per year. I bought it from a dealership, all services and records up to date. But I point you to that website because it points out so many factors that have to do with this purchase. Color, year, miles, owners, service records, etc.

My first suggestion - In my opinion, I highly recommend you don't buy someones super-low mileage "garage queen." These cars drive better when driven, and when driven by responsible drivers (it's usually a Ferrari aficionado that actually drives the car) service records will be better maintained. I've discovered that Super-Low mileage cars could spell trouble. Think of it this way, if you owned one, wouldn't you want to drive it, or would you rather "display" it to impress the guests at your cocktail party? Issues of leaky gaskets and missed services will be bypassed by former owners left for you to pick up!

Here are some costs you will absolutely incur.
1. Updated TCU
2. Clutch
3. Belts
4. Fluids
etc...

Like Gcalo said, "it's like owning an airplane" which brings me to your second point of using the car as an everyday driver and Ferrari vs. Maserati.

I believe its only been recently since Ferrari has made a car that is more designed for every day driving. I could be wrong though, but I wouldn't want to drive mine everyday, and I like the exclusivity of owning a car that is more built for a race track than everyday driving.

Last but not least, in my opinion, there's nothing like owning a Ferrari. My first Ferrari was the 456. I traded it for an Aston Martin Vanquish. The Vanquish was an unbelievable car no doubt, and one of the best looking cars made, but I couldn't wait to sell it and buy another Ferrari... which I did within the first three months and bought the 360... one day I'd like to own the 430 Scud or 458, but I hope to never have to trade the 360... nothing like a Ferrari. Hope that helps!
Jonathan
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post #15 of 45 Old 10-17-2011, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan. That is very helpful information. I think I will be all right on expenses if they are below $5,000/year. I would need to use it as an everyday driver and I don't understand why this would not be preferable to not driving it on short trips everyday. -Bob.
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post #16 of 45 Old 10-17-2011, 09:15 AM
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Bob- If you drive the 360 every day, just make sure the oil temperature gets above 158 F/70 C on every trip. If you need to, use a slightly longer route so it reaches full operating temperature. Otherwise, condensation formed on cool down will continue to build up and cause problems over time. The oil also tends to get some fouling with gasoline and reaching full temperature will evaporate the gasoline out of the oil, where the blow-by system will take care of it by feeding it back into the intake manifold.

With all the disparate metal types in a Ferrari drivetrain, component life will be extended by ensuring all the parts are up to operating temperature. Warming up the engine before driving only gets those parts up to temperature, and not the rest of the drivetrain. Waste of gasoline, too. Once she comes off high idle, time to get moving gently.

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post #17 of 45 Old 10-17-2011, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Taz

Ok, I get it Taz, thanks. If I drove it a couple of miles a day, with stops in between, would that be sufficient? -Bob.
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post #18 of 45 Old 10-17-2011, 07:25 PM
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Bob- Probably not. You would never get the oil up to temperature on such short trips. Remember, the 360 is really efficient at shedding heat on long, high speed trips and she carries 10.5 qts of oil for her dry sump system. Takes a while to heat up that much oil, even in a mild climate.

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post #19 of 45 Old 10-18-2011, 07:59 AM
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I owned a 360 for a year and would offer the following tidbits.

The car took a good 20-25 minutes to reach operating temp. Much longer than others I was used to.

Remember that a fully sorted 360 is much more important. For example, if you find a 360 that is on original headers, and is at 20,000 miles or greater, there is a distinct possibility that the headers could fail (either from dislocated precats or leaks). They need replacement before this happens. Replacing my headers with the only insulated brand on the market at the time (Tubi) set me back 6K for the headers and another $800 for installation.

Variator replacement has been viewed buy some as something that should be done at every major. This adds cost.

Fluids every year are a must. You can probably go every other year on coolant but brake, gear oil, and motor oil every year. The 360 manual gearbox cooks it's oil pretty well.

Once you "de-ferrari-ize" each model, you can likely calm the maintenance costs down a bit...for example, replacing your tensioner bearings with hill bearings and replacing the t/o bearing with the hill model will likely result in greater longevity. Make sure that the shop you use has a habit of examining lots of things at the major, looking for failures before they occur.

The 360 is a very pleasurable car when it runs well. I enjoyed mine a lot...but it was expensive to sort.
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post #20 of 45 Old 10-18-2011, 08:44 AM
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360's are heat dependant almost like a diesel. It takes a while to heat the engine oil because the "resevoir" resides in the transmission case and the oil flows through a radiator eventough the oil thermostat affects that.

The tranny case itself acts like a radiator. So, it takes time to come to temp.

Maintenance is an issue but when I hear the incredible yearly amounts I am concerned. Of course when one does his own work those #'s don't apply.

Oil & tranny fluid changes min one a year. Brake flush, P/S, and coolant every 2 years.

Variators should have gone through a campaign and generally should not need to be touched again.

Enjoy the car. It's a great one.
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