365 Boxer opportunity ? Need for help ! - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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365 Boxer opportunity ? Need for help !

Dear friends

I have been looking around for a long time to find a good F40. Those I have seen were either to pricy (or outrages expensive) or not well cared for. While waiting along this I joined the forum and "Boxer" was answering a specific question I had concerning Daytonas and Boxsters. He especially mentioned that you would always prefer a 365 BB over a 512 BB or Daytona. With this in mind I started to look around. While trying to locate a 365 BB, I happened to test drive a wonderful, perfectly restored 512 BBi. The care looks great and has a very prominent ownership history. Price around Euro 90'. When I test drove the car, it runed very smooth and nice...but (having experience F40, F50 and stradale's) I doubted that this car has the 340 horsepower expected. It just felt very "normal" ?!
After this, my trusted mechanic said that this has clearly to do with the difference between injected and carburator versions of the Boxer and strongly indicated not to look for a injected version anymore.
In the meantime I got to contact a very nice elderly man who wants to sell his 365 BB (18475) in my region. Therefore today, I went right away to this Gentleman and looked at the car from every angle. The engine and gearbox has been totally restored 8'000 Km ago (7years), has no smoke at all and runs
very, very smooth. I drove the car and its really quite a difference between the 512 BBi and this 365 BB in favor of the 365 BB (Boxer, you have been very correct about this). To makes thing look even brighter, this car came just back from a 11' Euro interior job at Luppi in Italy. Inside it could not look better.
When I took the car on the lift, things looked different. All "Kautschuk" parts, tubes, need to be replaced. The exhaust system is one from a 512 BB (not beautiful), Tyres need to be new. The lower part of the back body (black) needs to be replaced, because somebody cut in additional space to convert to bigger exhaust pipes. Carburation and ignition is working very good. The belts needs to be changed. The shock absorbers need to be restored and all the Kautschuk around moving parts at the suspension needs to be replaced as well. All brake tubes as well plus a generall check up of everything. By opening the frond hood I realised that the cosmetics of the moulded zone (spare tyre) looks very worn out. O.k. there are many things to do and normally I would not look further, since I know that such a car could/would be a BIG project. On the other hand:
1. Its a rare 365 BB
2. Luppi interior
3. Engine and Gearbox almost new
4. Price slightly below Euro 90'

Summarizing all this I would expect to invest around 30' additional Euros to get it nice, save and clean all around. An additional 20' Euros would bring it cosmetically to the original color and clean again. Nearby I have a very trustful person, working on old Ferraris since over 20 years. He would be competent, experienced and able to do all this within the next 4 - 6 months.

Questions:
1. Would you go for this 365 BB project?
2. Do I look at the 365 BB just because I do not find "my" F40, and you would suggest that I rather should stick to my initial idea and just wait for the correct F40 to come?
3. Do I forget something important to consider in my thoughts on the project or generally?

I would like to thank you all in advance to help move on my decision finding process. All thought, ideas are really welcomed !
Many thanks!
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post #2 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 08:49 AM
 
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I wouldn't take it, specially considering that you have the F40 in sight

But consider that I'm yound, stupid and absolutelly in love with the F40 (but I do like the boxer!)

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." - J. P. Kennedy
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post #3 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stile - alpine View Post
I wouldn't take it, specially considering that you have the F40 in sight

But consider that I'm yound, stupid and absolutelly in love with the F40 (but I do like the boxer!)
Dear brazilian friend

You mean its like having the chance to eat the delicious meet at "Porcao" in Rio but rather choosing for a german sausage (never mind I like them as well)?
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post #4 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 10:57 AM
 
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Nein, mein Freund, die Boxer is nicht so schlecht! hehehehehehe

Just kidding! So you've been in Rio?

But about the Ferrari, I guess you should also take in consideration how close to the F40 you are (I have no idea how big is the price gap between the 365 and the F40)

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." - J. P. Kennedy
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stile - alpine View Post
Nein, mein Freund, die Boxer is nicht so schlecht! hehehehehehe

Just kidding! So you've been in Rio?

But about the Ferrari, I guess you should also take in consideration how close to the F40 you are (I have no idea how big is the price gap between the 365 and the F40)
Yes, I like Rio very much as I do niteroi, cabo friu and Bouzos. The godfather of my oldest daugther and one of my best friends is a Carioca. He lives since 10 years now here in Europe and thru him I had the wonderful opportunitiy to learn to know those wonderful human beings called "Cariocas"

The price of a F40 here is about 2.5 times that of the 365 BB. Interestingly with a 365 BB it is possible to joined some classic touring around europe, whereas the F40 is still a little bit young to be accepted.
(But this is no big argument since I'm anyway no "crowd" loving person)
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post #6 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 11:26 AM
 
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I live in Brasília, a bit far from Rio (about 1200 km), but I go there very often (this year I went there about 10 times before I came to Europe in September) because my brother lives in Macaé (very close to Cabo Frio and Búzios). The girls there are really amazing, specially in Búzios!

About the Boxer decision, I think it's time for you to listen to someone else with a better experience! hehehehehe

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going." - J. P. Kennedy
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post #7 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 10:39 PM
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Is this 365 BB in/near Zug, Switzerland ? If so I have some history on the car. It has been on and off the market for several years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
Dear friends

I have been looking around for a long time to find a good F40. Those I have seen were either to pricy (or outrages expensive) or not well cared for. While waiting along this I joined the forum and "Boxer" was answering a specific question I had concerning Daytonas and Boxsters. He especially mentioned that you would always prefer a 365 BB over a 512 BB or Daytona. With this in mind I started to look around. While trying to locate a 365 BB, I happened to test drive a wonderful, perfectly restored 512 BBi. The care looks great and has a very prominent ownership history. Price around Euro 90'. When I test drove the car, it runed very smooth and nice...but (having experience F40, F50 and stradale's) I doubted that this car has the 340 horsepower expected. It just felt very "normal" ?!
After this, my trusted mechanic said that this has clearly to do with the difference between injected and carburator versions of the Boxer and strongly indicated not to look for a injected version anymore.
In the meantime I got to contact a very nice elderly man who wants to sell his 365 BB (18475) in my region. Therefore today, I went right away to this Gentleman and looked at the car from every angle. The engine and gearbox has been totally restored 8'000 Km ago (7years), has no smoke at all and runs
very, very smooth. I drove the car and its really quite a difference between the 512 BBi and this 365 BB in favor of the 365 BB (Boxer, you have been very correct about this). To makes thing look even brighter, this car came just back from a 11' Euro interior job at Luppi in Italy. Inside it could not look better.
When I took the car on the lift, things looked different. All "Kautschuk" parts, tubes, need to be replaced. The exhaust system is one from a 512 BB (not beautiful), Tyres need to be new. The lower part of the back body (black) needs to be replaced, because somebody cut in additional space to convert to bigger exhaust pipes. Carburation and ignition is working very good. The belts needs to be changed. The shock absorbers need to be restored and all the Kautschuk around moving parts at the suspension needs to be replaced as well. All brake tubes as well plus a generall check up of everything. By opening the frond hood I realised that the cosmetics of the moulded zone (spare tyre) looks very worn out. O.k. there are many things to do and normally I would not look further, since I know that such a car could/would be a BIG project. On the other hand:
1. Its a rare 365 BB
2. Luppi interior
3. Engine and Gearbox almost new
4. Price slightly below Euro 90'

Summarizing all this I would expect to invest around 30' additional Euros to get it nice, save and clean all around. An additional 20' Euros would bring it cosmetically to the original color and clean again. Nearby I have a very trustful person, working on old Ferraris since over 20 years. He would be competent, experienced and able to do all this within the next 4 - 6 months.

Questions:
1. Would you go for this 365 BB project?
2. Do I look at the 365 BB just because I do not find "my" F40, and you would suggest that I rather should stick to my initial idea and just wait for the correct F40 to come?
3. Do I forget something important to consider in my thoughts on the project or generally?

I would like to thank you all in advance to help move on my decision finding process. All thought, ideas are really welcomed !
Many thanks!
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post #8 of 11 Old 11-22-2007, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, you're absolutely right. The car was on the market several times during the last 4 years. In the meantime I have seep discussion with my trusted mechanic on the car, analysing all details from the photographs taken yesterday. The conclusion is nice running engine an interior but the rest of it is a "deep hole". Bringing it back to former freshness in every aspect will demand a rough guessed 60 - 80' Euro's.
Besides I have some doubt that the car's mechanical restauration (engine, gearbox) has been done in a very competent way. The reason is that the previous owner who is a professional car mechanic did terrible things to the details of the car. As a professional I would expect from him a much better maintenance and more "love" to those details.
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post #9 of 11 Old 11-23-2007, 12:53 AM
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I believe I looked at this 365BB in 2005. At the time it had a horrible white interior and needed a huge amount of work. He was asking Euro 65k back then.
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post #10 of 11 Old 11-23-2007, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, that's the one. I have decided to leave this car where it is. (I assume you would suggest the same)
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post #11 of 11 Old 11-23-2007, 04:07 AM
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Yes, and that is also what I did.

Last edited by Boxer; 11-23-2007 at 08:37 AM.
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