Porsche Gets a New Car - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-28-2005, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Porsche Gets a New Car

In today’s Wall Street Journal Porsche is coming out with a four-door sedan. Great. It just goes to show you that I am right. Porsche races cars to sell cars. My sweet manufacture does it the right way. Sells cars to race. This is much more fun this way.

The best auto manufacture of the twentieth century is Enzo Ferrari personal company. I drive a 550.

8)

12 cylinders or walk.

12 cylinders or walk
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post #2 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 02:08 AM
 
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As if the SUV was not bad enough...now they go and do this...

Good lord what are they thinking?

Do you think God stays in Heaven because she is afraid of what she sees down here?

Owner and Operator of a 2000 Jeep Wrangler. A few mods here and there... but just you wait and see what I have in store for her...
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post #3 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 360 Spyder
Good lord what are they thinking?
About their shareholders, and that's what they should be doing.
Ferrari's profitability is a joke as it stands, milking the brand with merchandising and endorsement. As a customer, I'd rather think that the products that are sold to me are the end game, and I do believe it's the case nowadays with Ferrari. The old stories about Enzo Ferrari selling cars to finance his race team are, in my opinion, obsolete romantic fantasies. Ferrari GTs would not sell without racing involvement, but racing would pointless if it wasn't a mean to make money out of GT cars and derivative products.
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post #4 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 08:35 AM
 
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Are they trying to have another "Phaeton" disaster?

A four-door Porsche? Thats called an Audi! :lol: :lol: 8)
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post #5 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 02:46 PM
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ze_shark,

Is there a solution for Ferrari? I am really interested in hearing your opinion on this as I don't know Ferrari's financials very well. Do you see a way to have both a low production number of cars and be profitable?

Why do all companies have to grow these days? If you can maintain a decent profit year after year but they do not grow why is this a bad thing (I'm not saying this is Ferrari's case)? The last two questions are just philosophical questions.
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post #6 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 03:10 PM
 
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Ferrari is lucky since they have the financial might of the Fiat Group backing them, so they really don't need to worry about profits, they are the jewel in the Fiat crown

Wasn't there some discussion before about increasing Maserati production over the next few years? to allow them to have a larger market and thus increase profits
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post #7 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botto
Ferrari is lucky since they have the financial might of the Fiat Group backing them, so they really don't need to worry about profits, they are the jewel in the Fiat crown

Wasn't there some discussion before about increasing Maserati production over the next few years? to allow them to have a larger market and thus increase profits
Well I do believe the idea was to make Maserati the mass production (or big production) car of the two and that it would cover the loss that Ferrari has. I have no idea what is going on in Italian business at the moment and finding records is a bit tuffer. I know Maserati is now being moved to a different branch and Toyota is planning on taking over the world (and they will).
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 07:16 PM
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Don't kick me out for saying this, but the new Cayman is drop-dead gorgeous ....especially in ....silver! (saw an ad in the recent Dupont Registry, the car was shown in profile....YOWZER!) 8)

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post #9 of 16 Old 07-29-2005, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
ze_shark,
Is there a solution for Ferrari? I am really interested in hearing your opinion on this as I don't know Ferrari's financials very well. Do you see a way to have both a low production number of cars and be profitable?
This is a good question. The brand's strength is an enormous asset, but it is being diluted in merchandising items. Your question however implies that low production quantities are a starting point. I don't believe they should be, I wonder if they can be. This is the kind of taboo that would, in my opinion, have to be challenged. Why would it be an end it itself ? Is there solid evidence that the business model would crumble if Ferrari ramped progressively to 8-9000 cars a year ? Residuals, exclusivity, etc ... but I was at Ferrari, I'd rather sell these cars than seeing them sold
by Aston. Customers will get tired of waiting years to get their cars.

I've already ranted on this before, there are not many ways you can increase profitability:
- reduce your operating expenses, but investing less will be a killer at a time where competition is stiffening
- increase your margins, but this implies inevitably higher volumes
If the new front-engined Dino is a real project, I think it embodies the fact that it's not sustainable anymore to let Aston & Porsche squeeze Ferrari from the high end AND the 'low' end.
If you take Porsche, a mainstream strategy executed poorly (924, 944) almost ruined them, but a mainstream strategy well executed (Boxster) saved the company.

To balance this, Ferrari's 2005 results to date are nowhere as bad as year 2004. We'll have to see whether this trend continues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
Why do all companies have to grow these days? If you can maintain a decent profit year after year but they do not grow why is this a bad thing (I'm not saying this is Ferrari's case)? The last two questions are just philosophical questions.
It is a philosophical question indeed, but an interesting one.
I believe that the alternative to growth is decline, there's just no in-between you can drive an organisation (Ferrari Spa employees, the subsidiaries, the dealer network and the suppliers) to excel at.
Another dimension is competition. It would be complacent to consider Ferrari as an isolated bubble. I believe that a broad slice of the customer base, the people who buy new cars at MSRP or above, is volatile. If Porsche, Lamborghini, Aston Martin & others keep on investing, they will end up making cars which are as desirable, if not more.
Bottom line growth generates the cash allowing you to sustain R&D investments. Volumes are the key to component costs, and to quality as well. I think that Ferrari is in a terrible spot with their 4-5Kea/y semi-industrial production: too small to implement large volume manufacturing quality mgt practices, too large to be operated in a craftsman mode.
I've not yet visited the new assembly line, but the new engine plant and the paint shop are large facilities, with a lot of spare room to grow.

The Maserati merger/spin-off is a corporate joke, and is probably partly responsible for Ferrari's poor financial results. Big investments, and cars which do not sell. I am pretty sure too that it made a big mess in the dealer network. Yet I do not think that sending over Maser to Alfa (which makes sense to me, Alfa design applied to the Maserati segment with Ferrari-designed powertrains could be really effective) will resolve everything.

The Fiat Group financials are posted at fiatgroup.com and worth reading. Fiat Group is a large conglomerate, but their top line is flat and their measly bottom line is growing only because Fiat Auto is lowering losses. Still at 1.8% for the first 6 months and 3.1% for the 2nd quarter, "trading profit" is not that great. If you want financial might, look elsewhere.
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post #10 of 16 Old 07-30-2005, 03:02 AM
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The 911 and the Boxter can't sell now. People are tired of the same design theme. Furthermore there are many manufacturers that can now build reliable sports cars that used to be the domain of Porsche.
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-30-2005, 07:33 AM
 
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I always thought Porsche had good sales figures?

A new "Dino" would be a great product for Ferrari IMO, but they would need to show that it has alot of "history" behind it or the average uninformed consumer may see it as "Ferrari selling out"

Some more info on Fiat Auto Group's finances

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars.../analysis.html


Here is some news from Porsche

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/136384.html

Quote:
"We recorded mixed results in June [2005]," said Peter Schwarzenbauer, PCNA President and CEO. "While demand for all our sports cars remains high, our supply of 911 is hampered by extremely low inventory throughout the country. Order books are full while our warehouses are empty."
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-01-2005, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale
The 911 and the Boxter can't sell now. People are tired of the same design theme. Furthermore there are many manufacturers that can now build reliable sports cars that used to be the domain of Porsche.
I second that. Personally Im tired of the 911 and was never a fan of the boxter. It was a good attempt to attract other demographics, but with the production of the cyanne Porsche is becoming just another expensive grocery getter. Stradale has a valid point that a tremendous amount of manufacturers are upping the anty (so to speak) on the quality of the their sports cars.

Ive heard the Infinity G35 is actually a great drivers car. Ive never driven one but it goes to show that 'exotic' car manufacturers really need to create something special, something the 911 was in the past. A 550 for example! Thats something special! :lol:
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-01-2005, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botto
I always thought Porsche had good sales figures?

A new "Dino" would be a great product for Ferrari IMO, but they would need to show that it has alot of "history" behind it or the average uninformed consumer may see it as "Ferrari selling out"
We had a prior thread on bringing back a "Dino" entry level model, great discussion. Suggest you run a search and take a look at it.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-01-2005, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Boxer
We had a prior thread on bringing back a "Dino" entry level model, great discussion. Suggest you run a search and take a look at it.
Will do! 8)
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-03-2005, 05:10 AM
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If one looks at Ferrari and Porsche, the type of racing each is involved with is really representative of the brand. Ferrari is represented by F1 which is the most glamorous, technologically advanced and fastest form of motor sport while Porsche is a long standing leader in endurance racing. The old analogy of having the Porsche as your wife and the Ferrari as your mistress rings true as they fulfill vastly different needs and desires (the cars of course).

I do believe that Porsche has bowed to market demands and in a way has tarnished the brand - here I am talking about the Cayenne and forthcoming Panamera. These products are soft in the way that the 911 has become and the Boxster always has been, but one thing that you can rely on Posrche to do is build cars that only true enthusiasts will consider. In this I refer to the GT2, GT3 and RS models. These are hardcore versions of cushy street cars that truly deliver phenomenal performance that Porsche has delivered in motorsport for many years.

Porsche is a hugely profitable company. I stand to correction that it generated revenues of in excess of 6 billion Euros and net profit of in excess of 1 billion Euros. Ferrari on the other hand (also stand to correction) does a similar revenue (I am not sure whether or not the F1 income is included) but only just breaks even or makes a small loss. In looking at Porsche though, should soft cars in the range be acceptable as long as there are still the "back to its roots" type enthusiasts cars?

I am interested to hear views on this.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-03-2005, 06:27 AM
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Huh not quite, 1.5b€ of revenues in 2004 for a net income of 6m€.
Profitability in CY05H1 was much higher but Ferrari may have a tough time matching CY04 top line since CY04 was proped up by the bulk of Enzo deliveries. The 430 is not going to make up for that.

I looked at Porsche financials a few months back, and they were good but not great, especially if you look at net profit after tax, burdened by the german corporate rate.
Renault was more profitable than Porsche last year in terms of net profit as a percentage of revenues !

The thing I like about Porsche is that it is a pure no-nonsense company managed as a business, the only oddity being the packaging of the 911 line which is contained technical madness. Ferrari has a semi-institutional status in Italy and I speculate it must be riddled with internal and external politics.
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