Luigi Chinetti's Tre Posti up at Auction - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 48 Old 08-10-2014, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Luigi Chinetti's Tre Posti up at Auction

I'm sorry if this is a repost but I came across this item in the NYTimes today- an ad for Gooding and Co with this car featured. I think I am in love- and three seats!

Alas beyond my budget.


1966 Ferrari 365 P Berlinetta Speciale “Tre Posti” | Gooding & Company



Read the interview with Chineti's son. The world was different.


Follow the pictures for the purchase and trade history - 275 GTb etc.... Wow.



Love the catalog.

Scott

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Last edited by scotts; 08-10-2014 at 05:49 PM.
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post #2 of 48 Old 08-10-2014, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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An interview with luigi chinetti jr.: David gooding and luigi chinetti jr. Excerpt

How long did Carton have Tre Posti? Was it his only car at the time?
Well, in retrospect, I think Tre Posti was too much car for him, and maybe he didn’t quite understand what he was getting into. When we first sold it to him, he asked us to install an air-conditioning system. That was our first clue that he wasn’t going to own it for a long time. Then he complained about not being able to park it. Being a center-seat driving position, he couldn’t ever judge where the curb was. In March 1968, he sold the car back to us, and we gave him a 365 GT 2+2 – one of the first to arrive. That was more approachable for him. It had air-conditioning.
So it wasn’t a great commuter car for New York City.
Not really. After all, it was basically a “P” car, so it’s not ideal if you just want to cruise around Manhattan, take it out for dinner and drinks. That said, I never found it hard to drive. I used to drive 250 LMs around Manhattan all the time, no problem. The Westside Highway and FDR drive were the straightaways and Central Park was the real racecourse; but I knew those cars well and had raced them, so it was never a problem for me to drive a car like that in the city. We got away with murder. You could never do that today.

What happened to Tre Posti after it came back to Chinetti Motors?
We sold it to Jan De Vroom later that year. He had a brand-new 275 GTB/4, so we sold him the 365 P and took the four-cam in on trade.
De Vroom was a good client of yours, correct?
Oh, yeah, Jan De Vroom. Yeah, he was quite the character. He was this tall, blond European – born in Dutch Indonesia – and for years was very close with the Marquesa de Cuevas. Her name was Margaret, and she was the granddaughter of John D. Rockefeller – very eccentric and unusual, but she probably was one of the wealthiest women in the world at the time.
I’m not entirely sure what agreement they had, but she treated him like a son. I think they both had a passion for Mozart. She put him in business selling imported Italian glass and gave him a really beautiful house in Palm Beach. It was on El Bravo Way.
De Vroom’s money came from Margaret de Cuevas?
You know, I’m not entirely sure where exactly his money came from, but it was never in short supply. It must have come from her. De Vroom was a very good long-standing customer and every year we sold him the latest, top-of-the-line car. I remember he had that one-off 4.9 Superfast. That was a really great car. Along with George Arents, De Vroom was some of the money behind NART during the early years.

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post #3 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 08:25 AM
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post #4 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 09:42 AM
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No. We recently made a very special acquisition that will keep us busy for a while.


Big estimates on this one. 20-30MM


Wild times that hopefully won't end in tears...

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post #5 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 09:55 AM
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Jim- You think we are due for another 1989?

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post #6 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 10:17 AM
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Jim- You think we are due for another 1989?

I think a correction is over due. That said I think GREAT Rare cars will hold up. Disclosure: I've felt a correction has been over due for a long time and so far I've been wrong.

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post #7 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 05:38 PM
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Nice Ferrari!

There are more and more guys chasing Ferrari's every day - especially ones that age well.

The reason I think prices will continue and have been saying this since the 500k Dino is these buyers are cash in hand.

Congratulations Jim.

Last edited by champagne612; 08-12-2014 at 05:47 PM.
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post #8 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 06:02 PM
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Nice Ferrari!

There are more and more guys chasing Ferrari's every day - especially ones that age well.

The reason I think prices will continue and have been saying this since the 500k Dino is these buyers are cash in hand.

Congratulations Jim.
Thanks. I can't talk about it just yet but when I can I'll post about it here. For me it's the holy grail.

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post #9 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 07:57 PM
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Very Exciting! Men have searched for the holy grail for millennia, can't wait to see what it looks like. bring it to Amelia...



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post #10 of 48 Old 08-12-2014, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
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I think a correction is over due. That said I think GREAT Rare cars will hold up. Disclosure: I've felt a correction has been over due for a long time and so far I've been wrong.
You and me both, Jim.

Can't wait to hear about your new project. Holy Grail certainly sounds extremely exciting, it doesn't strike me a man with your garage would use those words easily.


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post #11 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 04:04 AM
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You and me both, Jim.

Can't wait to hear about your new project. Holy Grail certainly sounds extremely exciting, it doesn't strike me a man with your garage would use those words easily.


Onno
I don't and am very, very happy about this new one.

Best!
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post #12 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 05:23 AM
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I think a correction is over due. That said I think GREAT Rare cars will hold up. Disclosure: I've felt a correction has been over due for a long time and so far I've been wrong.

Absolutely correct; it is only a question of time. Following the 2007-2010 world depression - for that's what it was - we called it a recession only because the Great Depression brings back too many horrid recollections of the very word - there have been too many people with too much money chasing too few desirable cars; define desirable as you wish.


When prices become too ridiculous (for many they already have) and the serious top-line bidders say to themselves: basta - the ride will be over. It will take some time for most people to recognize that the ride is over and that gap is where many will be badly hurt.



The most serious lovers of truly rare or unique collectible cars, e.g. Jim, will still follow, find and acquire (privately) one-of-a-kind 'holy grail' automobiles at a negotiated price that ignores the auction silliness and that is one which satisfies both buyer and seller.


just my 2c

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post #13 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 06:25 AM
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Seth- A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose your job. For a lot of people, it was a depression.

Jim- Cannot wait to see what she is.

Taz
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post #14 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 06:57 AM
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Thanks. I can't talk about it just yet but when I can I'll post about it here. For me it's the holy grail.
That's exactly why prices will continue to climb on the top cars.

Owners who are purchasing cars with their heart vs wallet -they are not going to sell at any price.

With prices rising - speculating simply can not compete with true owners.

When and what speculators are buying - we can talk about a correction.
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That's exactly why prices will continue to climb on the top cars.

Owners who are purchasing cars with their heart vs wallet -they are not going to sell at any price.

With prices rising - speculating simply can not compete with true owners.

When and what speculators are buying - we can talk about a correction.


Exactly my points, Doug. A holy grail car is one thing but that's not what we're talking about when Jim and I write about a correction. It's the million dollar 330GTC of which Ferrari built 600. It's the $500,000. Dino 206 and 246 of which almost 4,000 were built, not even by Ferrari, by the way, but by Scaglietti (cars) and FIAT (engine). THAT is lunacy and a bubble. .

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post #16 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 06:33 PM
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Exactly my points, Doug. A holy grail car is one thing but that's not what we're talking about when Jim and I write about a correction. It's the million dollar 330GTC of which Ferrari built 600. It's the $500,000. Dino 206 and 246 of which almost 4,000 were built, not even by Ferrari, by the way, but by Scaglietti (cars) and FIAT (engine). THAT is lunacy and a bubble. .
To put it in perspective one mans Dino may also be considered his holy grail.

I know a lot of guys looking to buy and very few looking to sell.

When the GTO hits 60 70M at auction it's going to pull prices right along.

Jim didn't steal some unknown bar find so when guys like Jim are still hunting prices are headed north.

I don't know how many Ford GT's were built guessing 4000 and asking is over 300k and when a low mileage example is listed for 250 it's sold - special Gulf paint add 200k.

I just don't think it's a bubble especially when an Aventador and F12 are 500k.

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post #17 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 08:27 PM
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To put it in perspective one mans Dino may also be considered his holy grail.

I know a lot of guys looking to buy and very few looking to sell.

When the GTO hits 60 70M at auction it's going to pull prices right along.

Jim didn't steal some unknown bar find so when guys like Jim are still hunting prices are headed north.

I don't know how many Ford GT's were built guessing 4000 and asking is over 300k and when a low mileage example is listed for 250 it's sold - special Gulf paint add 200k.

I just don't think it's a bubble especially when an Aventador and F12 are 500k.
One point. The car I recently aquired is a VERY rare case based on a unique set of circumstances and a very personal connection. I'm not sure it's something that is an example of the current state of the market. As I haven't sold a collector since 1972 and very likely never will my collection isn't typical of market conditions.

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post #18 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 10:07 PM
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Hi All


The question of a bubble is very interesting to me. Should it be the case, and it bursts, I like many will be waiting to scavenge on the remains...


I was young when the '89 market crashed. Can any of you guys share some of the parallels that are making you think this is happening again?


Warm regards

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post #19 of 48 Old 08-13-2014, 10:42 PM
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I knew nothing of the classic Ferrari world when '89 happened, I was 19 and poor.

But just tracking current price trends in a graph shows you direct parallels with any other historic bubble market.

Today, tomorrow and Saturday lots of classic Ferraris will be auctioned, including a 250GTO today. I predict that they will show new highs, quite spectacular ones. I think there is enough stretch in the bubble yet.


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post #20 of 48 Old 08-14-2014, 01:55 AM
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Hi All


The question of a bubble is very interesting to me. Should it be the case, and it bursts, I like many will be waiting to scavenge on the remains...


I was young when the '89 market crashed. Can any of you guys share some of the parallels that are making you think this is happening again?


Warm regards
We human beings tend to like "finding parallels" although there are never really 100% parallels as circumstances dependent on 100 variables are always different. But it makes us "believe" to see parallels as our trust to "believes" makes us survive our own belief-system and creates a certain feel of "control and security". ;-)

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