Dealer conduct during a PPI? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Dealer conduct during a PPI?

So, this is a rather sensitive question but I thought it should be asked. First, I promise I'm not paranoid but the thought has crossed my mind since the typical car dealer is not always the most ethical.

I'm wondering if anyone has had an experience where they have been interested in a car and have sent it to a dealer for a PPI where the dealer has some-what got in the middle of the sale and tried to purchase the car from the seller?

I know this would be pretty unethical and I'dlike to think it would not happen but hey, you never know.

Last edited by dave rocks; 11-28-2012 at 01:28 PM. Reason: spaces removed when doing cut & paste
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post #2 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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I worked in dealers for most of my life and by car selling standards of ethics that does not even make it on to the RADAR screen.
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post #3 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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I worked in dealers for most of my life and by car selling standards of ethics that does not even make it on to the RADAR screen.
Hi Brian,

Not sure I understand your reply - can you elaborate?
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post #4 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 01:25 PM
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i don't want to answer for him, but i think it is unlikely. You can also keep that info from the dealer since you will be paying for the PPI.



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post #5 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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i don't want to answer for him, but i think it is unlikely. You can also keep that info from the dealer since you will be paying for the PPI.
Well, if they have the car, I assume they will know who owns it especially if the owner takes it there (with an out of area deal).
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post #6 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 02:44 PM
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Well, if they have the car, I assume they will know who owns it especially if the owner takes it there (with an out of area deal).
What Brian means is that the only time a car dealer is telling the truth is when their mouths are closed.

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post #7 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 02:48 PM
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true. good question. i would surely hope not. Guess it would depend on a lot of factors, but i don't guess dealers buy too many cars from individuals. Trade ins and consignments mostly i would think.

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Well, if they have the car, I assume they will know who owns it especially if the owner takes it there (with an out of area deal).


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post #8 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 03:27 PM
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I doubt a dealer would pay equal to a retail buyer like yourself.

The seller may be testing you.

When buying a used car - assume everyone is lying expect the worst and hope for the best and I don't think it matters of you are spending 5k or 500k.
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post #9 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 03:43 PM
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I doubt a dealer would pay equal to a retail buyer like yourself.

The seller may be testing you.

When buying a used car - assume everyone is lying expect the worst and hope for the best and I don't think it matters of you are spending 5k or 500k.


Thats true but there is always an inherent conflict of interest doing a PPI at a dealer. They don't make their money servicing cars or doing PPI's. They make their money selling cars and they really don't want to be a facilitator in putting a deal together that does not involve them selling a car. I have seen a lot of dirty tricks done. I was right in the middle once of doing a PPI on a 275GTBC for a very wealthy, well known Mexican collector. Before it was over I was being asked to talk him out of the car because they had a higher offer that day on the phone. Some dealers will do anything for a sale or commission even if it is just screwing up someone else's deal to have a shot.

A very big well known Rolls Royce dealer became aware of a pending sale and they had exactly the same car in stock. They hurried up and loaded it on their truck and drove it about 80 miles to the guys office and collected the check before the dealer that actually made the sale showed up.

Anything goes and many of the guys in the business consider it all just the way to do business.
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post #10 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Thats true but there is always an inherent conflict of interest doing a PPI at a dealer. They don't make their money servicing cars or doing PPI's. They make their money selling cars and they really don't want to be a facilitator in putting a deal together that does not involve them selling a car. I have seen a lot of dirty tricks done. I was right in the middle once of doing a PPI on a 275GTBC for a very wealthy, well known Mexican collector. Before it was over I was being asked to talk him out of the car because they had a higher offer that day on the phone. Some dealers will do anything for a sale or commission even if it is just screwing up someone else's deal to have a shot.

A very big well known Rolls Royce dealer became aware of a pending sale and they had exactly the same car in stock. They hurried up and loaded it on their truck and drove it about 80 miles to the guys office and collected the check before the dealer that actually made the sale showed up.

Anything goes and many of the guys in the business consider it all just the way to do business.
A Bentley dealer did something similar after I told them to stop looking as I found the Super Sport I wanted on e-bay.

Proceeded to call the selling dealer and ask for a finders fee or an offer to buy it 5k less.

I agree PPI's are a pain for dealers and the honest guys in service are stuck in the middle.

That RR could be the best story I have ever heard - the internet changes the landscape.
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post #11 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Guys, first no seller is telling me anything, this is all coming from me and my mind from dealing with other car sales. I hate buying cars from dealers, it's a big BS game.

My BMW purchase was really awesome. I made the deal over the phone before driving the car. Once I drove it, I put the order in coz we already worked out the price. I even told them to not try selling me all the other crap and they respected that. The car came from Germany 6 weeks later and the transaction was perfect.

But, in the case of a used Ferrari, if they have a buyer in mind and the right car comes in for the right price, I'd be concerned that the wrong dealer my try to pull a fast one especially if they are not local to me and won't get my service work
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post #12 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dave rocks View Post
Guys, first no seller is telling me anything, this is all coming from me and my mind from dealing with other car sales. I hate buying cars from dealers, it's a big BS game.

My BMW purchase was really awesome. I made the deal over the phone before driving the car. Once I drove it, I put the order in coz we already worked out the price. I even told them to not try selling me all the other crap and they respected that. The car came from Germany 6 weeks later and the transaction was perfect.

But, in the case of a used Ferrari, if they have a buyer in mind and the right car comes in for the right price, I'd be concerned that the wrong dealer my try to pull a fast one especially if they are not local to me and won't get my service work
Ok - so you are wondering if you strike a deal and send it to a dealer if they will try to move the car to one of their clients or if a dealer gets a car they will sell it to one of their customers first?

Things aren't that great these days for used Ferrari's - if you are buying something you are in the drivers seat either way especially entering winter.
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post #13 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Well let's just say some think their cars are worth more than they are. I want a mint car with low mile and am prepared to pay fair market price but I'm not going to over pay, I've got 5 months to find the right car.
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post #14 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 06:58 PM
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Ppi

I would think that It would be a good idea to have the PPI done at a reputable independent Ferrari service outfit .
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post #15 of 44 Old 11-28-2012, 10:58 PM
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Get an independent PPI firm to do it for you, or as the previous poster said, a specialist who doesnt sell cars. In the UK I suggest www.carinspections.co.uk, but there must be a similar outfit in the US.

Then there can be no conflict of interest.
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post #16 of 44 Old 11-29-2012, 07:01 AM
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Get an independent PPI firm to do it for you, or as the previous poster said, a specialist who doesnt sell cars. In the UK I suggest www.carinspections.co.uk, but there must be a similar outfit in the US.

Then there can be no conflict of interest.


Not a great idea.

It is impossible for one of those companies to have the experience, equipment, or knowledge to properly check out a modern Ferrari. You want someone who works on them day in and day out and you really want the guy who is going to be servicing it for you after the buy. That way he knows he will have some responsibility to you long term to keep you as a happy client.
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post #17 of 44 Old 11-29-2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dave rocks View Post
Guys, first no seller is telling me anything, this is all coming from me and my mind from dealing with other car sales. I hate buying cars from dealers, it's a big BS game.

My BMW purchase was really awesome. I made the deal over the phone before driving the car. Once I drove it, I put the order in coz we already worked out the price. I even told them to not try selling me all the other crap and they respected that. The car came from Germany 6 weeks later and the transaction was perfect.

But, in the case of a used Ferrari, if they have a buyer in mind and the right car comes in for the right price, I'd be concerned that the wrong dealer my try to pull a fast one especially if they are not local to me and won't get my service work

A. Bad idea having a dealer do the PPI. Most in the US won't do one anyway.

B. Bad idea having someone you don't know and have had or will have a long term relationship with do a PPI. He doesn't know you. He doesn't know your standards and there is nothing at all to keep him from taking a 15 minute test drive, telling you he inspected it from top to bottom and grabbing a few hundred dollars confident in the knowledge he will never see you again.



I see both constantly and both turn into train wrecks more often than not.

Better to just not spend the money and trust the deal to luck.
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post #18 of 44 Old 11-29-2012, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Brian,

In one post you state to stay away from independants for the PPI and the next you say the samy about dealers, so, that said, who should do a PPI?
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post #19 of 44 Old 11-29-2012, 07:29 AM
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Brian,

In one post you state to stay away from independants for the PPI and the next you say the samy about dealers, so, that said, who should do a PPI?



I have never said to stay away from an independant repair shop.


I said to stay away from PPI mills.


Those are 2 very different things.



Have a real live Ferrari mechanic, one you know, one who doesn't sell cars do it.
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post #20 of 44 Old 11-29-2012, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Have a real live Ferrari mechanic, one you know, one who doesn't sell cars do it.
In California that might be easy....in Buffalo NY, not so much
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