Ferraris, Mileage, & Definition? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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Ferraris, Mileage, & Definition?

Given all the discussion (especially in the UK & US) on Ferraris and mileage, how do you really determine what is a high or low mileage car?

Is it total mileage or mileage per year?

Is a 25 year old F40 with 25k miles on it (1k per year) really a higher mileage car than a 4 year old 430 with 20k miles on it? How would you classify a 1976 308 with 50k miles?

At what point is mileage irrelevant?
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 03:54 AM
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I put over 100,000 miles on my 330GTS and 365GTS/4, the market places their value at obscene levels compared to their original cost...regardless of actual milage. The thing is they don't make them any more. If one wants one, the choices are very limited, from the beginning only a handful were built which is more of a controling issue for price. Then again I have an early 911 in original condition with over 100,000 miles as well. That year they produced 2 or 3 thousand 911 (significantly more cars than Ferrari ). Insurance value is at 20 times what I paid for it. In the 911's case, survivers in original condition have become a rarity as many have crashed, been heavily altered or scrapped.

In my case I have put obscene milage on all my cars, with no adverse effect on value. They have been "paying" me for all the enjoyment I have had. Miles don't hurt value, it's other factors that affect value,
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 04:25 AM
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It seems there is a 20 year benchmark.

Guys buying Ferrari's from the 90's and current seem to freak out over mileage in the US which is a direct result of the dealers who simply don't want high mileage Ferrari's - reasserting the bs of a high mileage is a bad thing.

The dealers in the US have continue to ruin the used Ferrari market by charging obscene prices for maintenance.

Many US owners are afraid of their Ferrari and either can not or do not want to drive their Ferrari due to maintenance costs and depreciation.

The reality is the better ones have more than less miles - leather repairs are a lot less expensive than a Ferrari not receiving it's proper exercise.

Ferrari states they can deny warranty on a car that has less than 2500 miles per year.
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 05:03 AM
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When was the last time someone asked what the mileage on a 250 GTO was? Exactly...

Mileage is a moving personal target, as most know, a 20+ year old car with really low mileage is nothing but a potential catastrophe waiting to happen, unless she is going from one garage to another

high mileage is in the eye of the beholder, or the guy trying to lowball a seller

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post #5 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgagnon View Post
When was the last time someone asked what the mileage on a 250 GTO was? Exactly...
250 GTO doesn't have an odometer
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-04-2012, 11:30 PM
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Mileage for restored cars is irrelevant. For unrestored cars, it does make a difference. If you had a 8,000 mile Daytona it would go for much more than the prevailing market.

I think this trend is true for modern cars as well, but they haven't been restored yet. As F40's will start to into that zone where they will be restored by owners, I think the market for F40's will change slowly. One thing is problematic, of course, and that is that the F40 was already a speculation car before the first one was delivered. So there are many that have not accumulated mileage, and this has made the cars that have actually been used stand out.

For regular production Ferraris there is a change in the air - here in Europe Ferrari's are used much more than 15 years ago. Finding a 360 Modena or 550 Maranello with less than 40,000kms is not easy. 458's that do 20k a year seem to be abundant. For the US, this doesn't seem to happen as much.

For me, I would not be worried by a 80k kms (50k miles) 550 or 360. Is it high mileage? For me, no. It comes down to the quality of maintenance and how the owner looked after the car.

A 50k 308 from 1976? Well my Boxer has 56k miles and is from 1974. Is it high mileage? Heck no! It is an average of only 1,300 mile per year for my Boxer. My car drove only 1,000 miles between 1988 and 2008! You are now firmly in classic territory, though, and if you would want to buy a car like that and use it, you need to invest in restoring the car at least partially, particularly mechanically. This is very expensive, and 308's tend to still be seen as the cheap Ferrari. But times are changing. The vetroresina cars are now starting to command very high prices, even at high mileage. Looks like they're moving up and the 348 will be the next entry-level.

So to answer your question Boxer - I don't think this discussion will ever go away and I think there is no rule that you can work out that will determine what is high mileage. It depends on the model and how it is regarded in the market, and the latter changes over time (as the mileages do as well), but they also change regionally. It also is a personal thing - I am much less fussy about mileage than other owners I know.


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post #7 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
At what point is mileage irrelevant?
Boxer, I think only when you want the car badly enough!

Seriously, this is a question that I'm struggling to get my head around too at the moment. I have just posted a query over on the Modern v12 board regarding 612s and mileage.

It seems to me and I'm no expert that mileage plays a big part in determining the market value... but is no real indicator of the quality of the car. I acknowledge that this is the case, but struggle to work out why it should be so. This is based purely on looking at modern market prices.

I'm considering a 'high mileage' 612 OTO over a low-ish mileage 2004 both about the same price. One has an average of 20,000km a year, the other 2,000km a year. My dealer thinks I'm mad (he predicts impossible resale), but I'm leaning towards getting a really good (well looked after) car for less than it deserves to be sold at.

All other things being equal (spec, condition, maintenance, etc) and given that the mileage does dictate value, does it not make sense to purchase the higher mileage examples to get a better deal?
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 05:49 PM
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Julian,I think it makes sense if you're going to keep it for a long time , until it reaches the bottom of it's depreciation curve, of if you're going to put a lot of miles on it yourself.

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post #9 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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just start driving your cars at least once a week and the problems will disappear.
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 07:45 PM
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mileage

I myself, when looking for a motorcycle or car, would rather pay more for a lower mileage example provided the car was maintaned properly.. As far as putting mileage on a Ferrari, I say drive them as much as you can.I believe that most Ferrari owners have the money to rebuild and or restore their cars, whenever they want, so I never understood, people that own these cars. wanting to keep the miles down,because they are afraid of them losing value, but then again,Im not an investor, I didnt buy my 328 with the intention of ever selling it .When and if the motor needs a rebuild, it will get done.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-05-2012, 08:55 PM
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Interesting, the practical talk is just buy em and drive em; and most here will spend the time and or money to make sure their cars are in top order; but I think especially with the high volume cars we all know mileage does matter. And it matters because dealers tell us it does. Well they tell us it does at least when you try to trade an Fcar.

It's very difficult to generalise on any matter Ferrari because there are buyers who only buy new and those who never would; and those who buy to drive and those who buy, well I guess predominately to be seen.Their motivations and value points are all different.

As a used buyer and putting price aside for a moment, I rank spec, condition and history ahead of mileage and in that order. I think models that drivers go for like 430 Scud's or 599GTO's can carry higher mileages while cars to be seen in like spiders and standard 360 F430 599 etc need to have lower mileage to hold values.

Or not?
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-06-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
For regular production Ferraris there is a change in the air - here in Europe Ferrari's are used much more than 15 years ago. Finding a 360 Modena or 550 Maranello with less than 40,000kms is not easy. 458's that do 20k a year seem to be abundant. For the US, this doesn't seem to happen as much.

Onno
I think you are right. I have noticed quite a few 550s, 575, 430, and even 430 Scuds with much higher mileage than what I remember even 3-4 years ago.
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-07-2012, 08:21 AM
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in the US market milage controls the price of the daily drivers... back in the day the finance guides were concerned with model year of the car before milage...it once was 5 years plus current model that determined what the lenders would finance, before making any adjustments for milage etc...currently it is the milage that is considered first before the year model and other adjustments....anything with 50,000+ miles ( even current model year ) is not financed by prime lenders and forcing dealers to wholesale them... it is the finance sources that dictate what they will finace... this thinking only applies to current production which includes the first 5 years.... the older cars go to second tier financing or special financing sources not associated to prime auto lenders... this thinking bleeds in the Ferrari markets as well, it not the dealer, it's the lenders...
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