Tax fears in Italy make a Fiat better than a Ferrari - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-10-2012, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Tax fears in Italy make a Fiat better than a Ferrari

Out with the Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Maseratis! Italy's crackdown on tax cheats has many well-heeled drivers spurning their hot wheels for more prosaic cars to avoid unwelcome attention.

"Since December about 30 people have come to return their cars as they fear intense tax raids," a luxury car dealer said in Milan.

Domenico Minervini from the financial police in the central Emilia-Romagna region, added: "The tax office has begun to spread fear''.

"Many citizens are bringing back their prestigious motors evoking the financial crisis but in reality they are scared and want to hone down their taxpayer profile as their declared revenues have been very low until now."

Heavily-indebted Italy uncovered more than 50 billion euros ($65 billion) in undeclared revenues last year after cracking down on tax cheats, police said late last month.

A rich driver told the Corriere della Sera newspaper: "This week I was arrested twice by the police. However I drive with my tax returns and this way I could prove that I can allow myself a Lamborghini."

Milan's mayor Giuliano Pisapia recently said city officials had finally come up with an antidote to a lingering problem of luxury cars parked on tracks reserved for cyclists.

"We threatened to hand over their numberplate details to the tax office for verification'", he said.

There were 110,855 luxury cars registered in Italy last year. After 2,806 tax checks in which the owners' tax declarations were verified, the fiscal authorities were able to recover more than 68 million euros ($90 million), the Panorama weekly said.

The checks have intensified in places like the tony ski resort of Cortina where the owners of nearly 250 luxury cars were visited by tax officials in January.

Prime Minister Mario Monti came to power in November calling for a radical change to defend "honest taxpayers".

"It's unacceptable that workers have to make sacrifices while a major chunk of wealth is not taxed," Monti has said.
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post #2 of 43 Old 02-10-2012, 02:57 PM
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If owning an expensive car is cause for investigation, only cheats would need to worry.

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post #3 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 02:15 AM
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I was just in Rome earlier this week and the situation is really chaotic. Driving a Ferrari right now is an invitation to get pulled over and then have to prove you legitimately own/can afford the car. Many owners have stopped using their cars just to avoid the hassle and others are shipping them out of the country. The other major change is the new road tax which can be up to Euro 6000 on a 599 or 575/550. This has killed the used car market on the V12 Ferraris and is impacting new car sales as none of the dealers will take them in new as p/x on new Ferraris.
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post #4 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 02:34 AM
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I was just in Rome earlier this week and the situation is really chaotic. Driving a Ferrari right now is an invitation to get pulled over and then have to prove you legitimately own/can afford the car. Many owners have stopped using their cars just to avoid the hassle and others are shipping them out of the country. The other major change is the new road tax which can be up to Euro 6000 on a 599 or 575/550. This has killed the used car market on the V12 Ferraris and is impacting new car sales as none of the dealers will take them in new as p/x on new Ferraris.
Friedrich Hayek and the austrian school of economics is more actual than ever. The book "The Road to Serfdom" shows all the parallels from then to today again...sadly so.

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post #5 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 03:41 AM
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I was just in Rome earlier this week and the situation is really chaotic. Driving a Ferrari right now is an invitation to get pulled over and then have to prove you legitimately own/can afford the car. Many owners have stopped using their cars just to avoid the hassle and others are shipping them out of the country. The other major change is the new road tax which can be up to Euro 6000 on a 599 or 575/550. This has killed the used car market on the V12 Ferraris and is impacting new car sales as none of the dealers will take them in new as p/x on new Ferraris.
Italy is starting to sound a lot like Ireland. For all the wrong reasons. Road tax and petrol duties have similarly killed the used car market for high end vehicles here also. (the recession didn't help either)

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 04:09 AM
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How do they issue license plates?

Appears the system has a few flaws and people abused the system.

In Missouri they issue a temporary tag for 2 weeks in order to get everything sorted out.

To receive a license plate you need proof of insurance paid personal property tax receipt and paid sales tax receipt.

If I buy the car out of state the dealer collects my sales tax and one year of personal property tax at the time of sale.

Sales Tax 8% One time fee
Personal Property Tax 2 1/2% Annual Fee
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 04:21 AM
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How do they issue license plates?

Appears the system has a few flaws and people abused the system.
Huge holes is closer to the truth.

As a German friend once said, in Italy, they make it very hard to follow the rules....so no one does.
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post #8 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 04:39 AM
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Huge holes is closer to the truth.

As a German friend once said, in Italy, they make it very hard to follow the rules....so no one does.
Appears that ship has sailed.

It's a slap in the face to the ones who played by the rules - if any exist.
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:06 AM
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Do you think this will have a positve (to anyone outside Italy, that is) effect on used car prices? It might become very worthwhile to buy a used F in Italy and export it, or do you have a different opinion? Only thing is that Italian dealers are not very well known for stating all correct data about used cars. A company that specializes in importing expensive cars into Holland advised me to stay away from the Italian used car scene...on the other hand, a thorough PPI might resolve that in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?

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post #10 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:20 AM
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If owning an expensive car is cause for investigation, only cheats would need to worry.
That's exactly the point. Who is returning luxury cars to the dealers to avoid the Guardia di Finanza attentions has something to hide. I have just bought my first Ferrari, but I have no fear to show and use it or my vintage Alfas, for the simple fact that I am a manager in a Company, so my tax are taken directly from my salary every month and the same is true for my other sources of incomes.
It is not a problem of complex laws or holes, it is a problem of willingness to perform controls and apply the rules. So far the politicians were not willing to do so, because tax evasors are so many that the risk to lose votes and black money made this topic too hot, but Monti has no such worries and ordered the controlling offices to start performing real verifications.
The additional Tax on powerful cars is not a road tax but a tax on luxury items. I find ridiculous to have to pay such a tax on a 13 years old car, although reduced to 30% of what is paying the owner of a car with the same Kws, but an age of less than 5 years, but if that a way to find tax evasors, I am glad to pay it. Tax evasors are thiefs and should be treated as such.


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post #11 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:33 AM
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How do they issue license plates?
Fee
Hi Doug. It is very simple: you provide a copy of your Identity Card and Fiscal Code to the dealer and that's all. Before collecting the car you have also to pay the road tax and have a valid insurance policy. No tax data is necessary.
This is not the problem anyway. Many tax evasors are not the owners of this kind of cars. The cars are often formally owned by Companies, many abroad.

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post #12 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:44 AM
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Do you think this will have a positve (to anyone outside Italy, that is) effect on used car prices? It might become very worthwhile to buy a used F in Italy and export it, or do you have a different opinion? Only thing is that Italian dealers are not very well known for stating all correct data about used cars. A company that specializes in importing expensive cars into Holland advised me to stay away from the Italian used car scene...on the other hand, a thorough PPI might resolve that in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?
Hi Jeroen. The Ferrari dealer who sold me the 550 had a different view. He told me that second hand Ferrari are becoming more and more a popular choice, while the market for new cars is dead. After the Goverment issued the tax on luxury items, he received many requests for my 550, a lot more than in the year or so it was on sale. The same was true for other 2nd hand Ferrari cars he was able to sell quickly.
About reliability, there are good and bad sellers, as anywhere. Take info on the dealer before contacting him. You know, in Holland there are several sellers of vintage cars, including Alfas. I was warned most of them are unreliable and to stay away from the Dutch market! US even worse, with vintage European cars butchered by the American way to restore cars.
Myth and stereotypes are common everywhere I suppose.
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post #13 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:51 AM
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Hi Doug. It is very simple: you provide a copy of your Identity Card and Fiscal Code to the dealer and that's all. Before collecting the car you have also to pay the road tax and have a valid insurance policy. No tax data is necessary.
This is not the problem anyway. Many tax evasors are not the owners of this kind of cars. The cars are often formally owned by Companies, many abroad.

Ciao
Mauro
Mauro

I still don't understand how the license plate / tag is issued unless it is issued when the road tax is paid?

If the road tax is paid and the sales tax is paid - what's left?
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 05:53 AM
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Do you think this will have a positve (to anyone outside Italy, that is) effect on used car prices? It might become very worthwhile to buy a used F in Italy and export it, or do you have a different opinion? Only thing is that Italian dealers are not very well known for stating all correct data about used cars. A company that specializes in importing expensive cars into Holland advised me to stay away from the Italian used car scene...on the other hand, a thorough PPI might resolve that in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?
At some point these cars will have to be sent somewhere well below the market to move em. If they are near new I would have no problem stealing (cough) owning one.
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post #15 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:11 AM
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Mauro

I still don't understand how the license plate / tag is issued unless it is issued when the road tax is paid?

If the road tax is paid and the sales tax is paid - what's left?
The plate is issued following a request sent by the dealer to the Pubblico Registro Automobilistico, public motor vehicles register. You need to send the technical omologation of the car, the Identity Card and Fiscal Code of the buyer. The register than issue the plate and the certificate of property.
To use the car, you have to have the road tax (and, if applicable, the luxury tax) paid and a valid insurance policy, but this has nothing to do with the issuing of the plate.
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post #16 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by maurodev View Post
The plate is issued following a request sent by the dealer to the Pubblico Registro Automobilistico, public motor vehicles register. You need to send the technical omologation of the car, the Identity Card and Fiscal Code of the buyer. The register than issue the plate and the certificate of property.
To use the car, you have to have the road tax (and, if applicable, the luxury tax) paid and a valid insurance policy, but this has nothing to do with the issuing of the plate.
Ciao
Mauro
Got it - Gov't is backtracking by pulling over the drivers to clean up the missing or confirming proper documentation.

Seems like there could be a much easier way - making the dealer responsible for the full transaction and auditing their books.
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post #17 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:28 AM
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Any idea how many Enzos are currently for sale in Italy? I was recently told 6 were on the market?
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post #18 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:35 AM
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Any idea how many Enzos are currently for sale in Italy? I was recently told 6 were on the market?
If they are offering a BOGO - buy one get one free ... count me in!

As long as I don't have to pay the back taxes to get it out of seize the day hands.
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post #19 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:45 AM
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Got it - Gov't is backtracking by pulling over the drivers to clean up the missing or confirming proper documentation.

Seems like there could be a much easier way - making the dealer responsible for the full transaction and auditing their books.
Well, no. The Guardia di Finanza is not stopping the 'luxury cars' to check the cars related documents. It is doing it to cross check possession of a, to say, brand new 200k+ Euro car with the car owner previous tax declaration. If you are driving such a car and declared a 20k Euro income the previous year, than something is wrong... This is what is scaring those people: a tax declaration check prompted by just driving your expensive car!
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post #20 of 43 Old 02-11-2012, 06:48 AM
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"However I drive with my tax returns and this way I could prove that I can allow myself a Lamborghini."

I hope the IRS doesn't read this article!

Coming soon to the U.S.: Roadside tax audits.
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