Fabspeed Headers & Source of Origin - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Fabspeed Headers & Source of Origin

As I shortly mentioned in the introduction section, after having shared many of my researches of improvement of the F430 on FChat, yesterday I got definitely banned there when I decided to reveal the truth about the origin of Fabspeed headers.

This story has been going on since a while and I always had the feeling that Fabspeed wasn’t telling the truth pretending that they do all the R&D in house as well as the manufacturing of their exhaust parts. Here’s the famous thread from which my posts have been removed : Fabspeed F430 Headers


When I saw this thread coming up, I told myself that this time the truth should be revealed. I thought we had a freedom of expression on a forum like FChat, well, not at all! My posts got immediately removed and my account banned.


What was my goal? tell publicly to Ferrari owners interested in upgrading their exhausts (or having done already such mod), that Fabspeed is sourcing all his F355/F360/F430 headers directly from Taiwan and resell them as it in the USA labelled “Made in USA”... I wanted people to know what exactly they were going to buy (or bought already) as a Ferrari isn’t a Honda and that we usually do expect a level of transparency of the origin when such parts are installed. If such owners want to buy “Made in Taiwan”, fine, no problem at all. But at least they know what they are buying. I have nothing against competition but I claim fair business .


Don’t take me wrong, I have nothing against products made in China. There are very good manufactured products especially in electronics. I’ve always been doing business there and lived even several years in HK and Singapore. I just consider that their stainless steel is of very bad quality and this is very well known. I would make me thinking twice before installing such steel based products on a Ferrari.


Furthermore, there was nothing confidential in my post. Anyone can easily check on any of these websitse to find out shipping origins of sourced products :

http://panjiva.com/search/results?q=fabspeed&m=supplier_combined_and_spp
http://www.importgenius.com/importers/fabspeed-motorsport
http://www.importgenius.com/importers/fabspeed-motorsport-usa
http://www.importgenius.com/importers/fabspeed-motrosport

http://www.greatexportimport.com/s-jim_technology/1154584?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1


And last but not least, I'm not affiliated to any of Fabspeed's competitors. My IT consultancy business have nothing to do with the car or spare parts business.

So, my heart will go here now where I hope everything reasonable can be said without being banned because a company is a sponsor of a forum.


I will post next the post that has been removed from FChat...At least, I didn’t do my homework for nothing as well as the business partners who informed me about Fabspeed sourcing in Taiwan.

I leave at anyone the freedom to make up his mind
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post #2 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Repost of the banned FChat post...

Now in this post I’m going to reveal the truth about Fabspeed. The entire Ferrari community should know the real origin of Fabspeed products. Despite the fact that Fabspeed persist in writing that their products like the F355,F360 and F430 headers are produced by them near Philadelphia PA in the USA, I can tell that all this are lies!

All their products are manufactured in TAIWAN !

Fabspeed buy all their products at :
JIM Technologies CO. LTD,
No. 337-1, Jhong Jhe ng Rd.,
Dashe Township, Kaohsiung #81545,
Taiwan.
Tel: +886-7-353-6261
Fax: +886-7-353-6061
Web: WWW.JIM.COM.TW


The head of this company is Nora Hung. Anyone can check my statement by writing him directly at [email protected]

Anyone who bought Fabspeed headers, have "Made In Taiwan" headers on their cars...Fabspeed label even their boxes shipped to their clients “Made In USA” while it should be labelled “Made In Taiwan” as they are just buying and reselling them without transformations (except the 2.7 version of the F355 headers, see further). Fabspeed are just box movers and they never did any R&D on the F355/F360/F430 headers and exhaust parts...They just pretend doing R&D what I call serious cheating if not scamming customers. Of course, not surprisingly Fabspeed can’t provide any evidence of CAD files and proof of conception of the F430 headers or any other headers...

Anyone should know that the best stainless steel in Taiwan is worse than the worst stainless steel in Europe and, as a consequence, is cheaper. That’s why Fabspeed can offer cheaper prices with headers they bought at 800$ each.

Now the picture of the F355 that Fabspeed posted above (FerrariChat.com - View Single Post - Fabspeed F430 Headers) is also very interesting. These are the 5.2 headers sold by JIM Technologies Taiwan and Fabspeed is modifying them for the 2.7 versions. Who would weld finished polished headers??? Nobody, except those how are buying an existing product to transform it. JIM Technologies Taiwan is only manufacturing the 5.2 headers. Once again, Fabspeed is lying.

Attached are some picture of the F430 headers sold by JIM Technologies Taiwan. They are of course 100% identical as those sold by Fabspeed.

Another attachment shows the shipments parcels from JIM Technologies Taiwan to Fabspeed.

As shown in the last attachment, JIM Technologies Taiwan sell their F355/F360/F430 headers exclusively to the USA but not only to Fabspeed (compare for example the F430 Agency Power headers and you’ll discover 100% identical product).

I believe that guys like Fabspeed are taking Ferrari owners for stupid guys...well they will learn in the hard way that some Ferrari owner have many high profile business partners especially in South-East Asia and that the world is very very small. Hope this is a good lesson!

Anyone who wants more evidence clearly stating that one of the main clients of JIM Technologies is Fabspeed can PM me.
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post #3 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 02:11 PM
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Stef, A few thoughts on this subject as this is sure to stir up things.

I'm a far cray from knowing anything about import/export transcripts and documents. The notion of "Made in _____" can be misleading, no doubt. Could they be getting materials from Taiwan and then doing the final assembly in the USA? How certain can you be the entire product is made in Taiwan?

I would also be surprised if Fabspeed would ever post their CAD drawing of their products. Isn't that IP they would want to protect?

The manufacturing supply chain is a hugely interesting topic indeed. So much so that I started a project for mapping this kind of data for our food (and it could be applied to large manufacturing). Lot of companies want to understand their supply chain better, who their suppliers supply from too, etc. Shameless plug of that site:
Food Sprout - Sustainable Food and Mapping Our Foods Impact

Back to the above topic. We always appreciate valuable information that can help owners have a better experience. At the end of the day each person will have to make an informed decision on their own about buying a product and decide for themselves if owning a part partially or wholly sourced from Taiwan is good or bad based on others experience with the product.

I cannot give a honest assessment having never owned a Fabspeed product. From what I've seen on Rennlist most seem to like the products. If they are mis-stating their origin that part is unfortunate.
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post #4 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Stef, A few thoughts on this subject as this is sure to stir up things.

I'm a far cray from knowing anything about import/export transcripts and documents. The notion of "Made in _____" can be misleading, no doubt. Could they be getting materials from Taiwan and then doing the final assembly in the USA? How certain can you be the entire product is made in Taiwan?

I would also be surprised if Fabspeed would ever post their CAD drawing of their products. Isn't that IP they would want to protect?

The manufacturing supply chain is a hugely interesting topic indeed. So much so that I started a project for mapping this kind of data for our food (and it could be applied to large manufacturing). Lot of companies want to understand their supply chain better, who their suppliers supply from too, etc. Shameless plug of that site:
Food Sprout - Sustainable Food and Mapping Our Foods Impact

Back to the above topic. We always appreciate valuable information that can help owners have a better experience. At the end of the day each person will have to make an informed decision on their own about buying a product and decide for themselves if owning a part partially or wholly sourced from Taiwan is good or bad based on others experience with the product.

I cannot give a honest assessment having never owned a Fabspeed product. From what I've seen on Rennlist most seem to like the products. If they are mis-stating their origin that part is unfortunate.
+1. Well, ...Stef, does it not seem like you have landed in a different "planet" with different law of physics here ? w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #5 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 02:43 PM
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post #6 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 02:49 PM
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New math:

Ct α G + IT
Coefficient of Transparancy is proportional to Globalization + Information Technology

Thanks for sharing your research StefVan. However, from all accounts I've read, FabSpeed products are well reviewed.
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post #7 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 05:49 PM
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it used to be... I may not be current...

to qualify for "made in USA"... requires that some fragment of FINAL assembly ( makes product whole or useable ) happen within our borders

there is no restriction or requirement that ANY parts be manufactured within our borders

the definitions are funny as to what constitutes "made in USA" and not what one would normally associate with that label. Immediate assumption is 100% of content and assembly has origins within our borders... nothing could be further from the truth.

some firms that use "made in USA" have more disclosure or detail as to origin of parts used in their product...

the domestic supplier of replacement parts in question may well be within the scope of correcly using the "made in USA" label.
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post #8 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 06:11 PM
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it used to be... I may not be current...

to qualify for "made in USA"... requires that some fragment of FINAL assembly ( makes product whole or useable ) happen within our borders

there is no restriction or requirement that ANY parts be manufactured within our borders

the definitions are funny as to what constitutes "made in USA" and not what one would normally associate with that label. Immediate assumption is 100% of content and assembly has origins within our borders... nothing could be further from the truth.

some firms that use "made in USA" have more disclosure or detail as to origin of parts used in their product...

the domestic supplier of replacement parts in question may well be within the scope of correcly using the "made in USA" label.
So ...

A made in USA sticker is not IMO the issue.

The other place cares more about a sponsor than their members and in this case a very knowledgeable member who has a lot to offer owners and enthusiasts.

Stainless steel = inox a steel alloy 150 different grades.

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post #9 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 06:53 PM
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As I tried to tell Rob... it only takes a couple of dissenters planting the seed to derail any good momentum you may have had when the site was "for the members". To which he responded go ahead and bet against him... blah blah blah. As if we were in some dick measuring contest.... the point being completely lost on him. Respect others as you would like them to respect you.

I agree with Fromage, the label of made in america can be subject to interpretation. I think this disclosure should have been handled for what it was... information. But for reasons I cannot fathom Rob and company are more interested in reliving whatever ownage they either did or didn't get in high school on the interweb.... whatever.... money doesn't buy class.

Welcome to the grownup site StefVan.

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post #10 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 07:41 PM
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Stainless headers

Very interesting about those headers. I have Tubi headers on my F355, so of course I know they were made in Italy of high quality stainless. Before spending a king's ransom on another set of Tubi's for my wife's 360, I have been doing some internet research. I noted that the Fabspeed and Agency Power headers looked absolutely identical. Their website does NOT claim Made in USA as I recall. Made me curious as to whether Fabspeed made theirs or vice versa. I suspected a Chinese connection and also was concerned about the quality of the stainless. Since the stainless is the reason for header failure, that certainly has me concerned. Not to mention the heat shield versus coating debate. I will probably save up and go with the Tubis on the 360.

Of course this thread isn't really about the header issue, but about the INTEGRITY of a website that puts honesty in reporting to it's readers WAY below offending a sponser. Once you lose your INTEGRITY, what's left? How can anything on that site not be suspect? I personally viewed the information about the source of the headers as VERY INFORMATIVE and will influence my decision as a consumer. Sure, if I knew that and still decided on the Fabspeed, fine. At least I wouldn't feel like I've been ripped off and misled.

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post #11 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 07:59 PM
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Whoa.

Fabspeed's website claims it has over 16,000 sq ft of fabrication, sales and warehouse space in Philadelphia, and an additional 200,000+ square feet of dedicated manufacturing space in the USA.

It sure seems that they imply that their products are made in the USA, although they never seem to come right out and say so.

What a train wreck.
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post #12 of 245 Old 10-28-2011, 10:31 PM
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Certainly very interesting indeed and I applaud Stef for the even- handed and well versed explanation.

As to the Made in USA on box, that is not inaccurate but it is a ploy. My guess is that the box is made in USA but of course if in fact the product comes from China then it is a fraud to mislead the public.

The first response that comes to mind is WOW!

Fabspeed is a sponsor of the other site so it does not surprise me that the "site owner" wants to protect income!

Very important info.

Wonder what the effect will now be?

I am going to check their site to see how the factory space is worded.
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post #13 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 12:52 AM
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Personally the only issue I see is one of representation. They should be clearer about the source of the parts. Plenty of very high quality goods are made in Taiwan and China (including just about all the computers we are all using to post of FL).

I had a similar eye opening discovery a few years ago on watches. Only a few of the high end manufacturers still produce their own movements, most others use stock movements that they then "customize".
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post #14 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 01:13 AM
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Personally the only issue I see is one of representation. They should be clearer about the source of the parts. Plenty of very high quality goods are made in Taiwan and China (including just about all the computers we are all using to post of FL).

I had a similar eye opening discovery a few years ago on watches. Only a few of the high end manufacturers still produce their own movements, most others use stock movements that they then "customize".
Reagrding the watches, very thru. There a 3-4 watch makers like Patek or Rolex who produce their own clockwork within each of their models...all the rest is ETA / Swatch. The Swiss manufacturer bought up about every clock work producer in the crisis 70''s/80's so many of the "Cartier" or you name it watch have a clockwork equivalent of that of a $30 Swatch. It shows what importance the fact of "brand naming" has become these days!

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post #15 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much for all your different points of view which makes this subject interesting to discuss.

Once again, I’ve nothing against Fabspeed. But when Fabspeed keeps on posting on a public forum that their products have never been Made in China but are 100% made in USA (they have been writing this so many times on FC : Ferrari 360 Headers by Fabspeed!, 458 Italia, 430, etc) and make you feel stupid, well, this grew inside me and made me starting doing some real research on this company.


There are laws in the US that apply before you can write “Made in USA” and is controlled by Federal Trade Commission (FTC) : http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard


Through my research, I found that that Fabspeed is buying a complete finished product in Taiwan and resell it as an in-house made product in the USA! As Barry wrote here above, the Agency Power headers are 100% identical and it’s normal because they are the same headers manufactured by JIM Technologies Taiwan.


You know, I challenged in the same way Capristo. The first exchanges I had with them weren’t very positive because I was quite sceptical about their Dyno results. In opposition to Fabspeed, Capristo has been very transparent about their Dyno results, the manufacturing process of their products and the origin of it as well as the prime materials. They opened the doors of their factory in Germany during 4 days and I’ve been spending there hours and hours with the entire team, including Antonio. They showed me all the CAD’s, we been studying all of them as well as the CAD’s of some future products of the 458 which were not even yet released. I saw how they transformed the raw stainless steel prime material into a finished exhaust product.

So, if you compare both behaviours, one is hiding and manipulated the information while the other isn’t saying or pretending anything and is just opening wide his doors as there is nothing to hide. No doubt that my choice went for Capristo.



PS : I asked for the CAD files on FC but that was much more a way to provoke them as I knew that anyway, they don’t do any conception and they have no clue how to use a CAD tool.
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Well first of all sorry for your banning, but we at FL welcome your input here

PS good thread

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post #17 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 03:03 AM
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I can understand your stance, Stef. Your relentless persistance is to be commended.
If I may go a bit off topic, but along the same line, here in Japan, it is not uncommon to find in news of such behaviors by entrepreneurs. Quite common is in the food industries. Quite often, you hear in news where the suppliers or middlemen get apprehended for using inferior imports and rebox or reclaim as authentic, domestic, high priced, quality products. Poor consumers simply have to trust and get taken for it. Sad but there are enough of them out there. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #18 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. v View Post
Whoa.

Fabspeed's website claims it has over 16,000 sq ft of fabrication, sales and warehouse space in Philadelphia, and an additional 200,000+ square feet of dedicated manufacturing space in the USA.

It sure seems that they imply that their products are made in the USA, although they never seem to come right out and say so.

What a train wreck.
That's probably very true as they make stuff for several different brands now. I'm not sure how to disclose info like this though without shooting yourself in the proverbial foot. As someone else said everyone is sensitive now to the idea of "made in America". What's weird is that for some products its not only patriotic but also cheaper to buy american made.

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post #19 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 06:01 AM
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Was really hoping someone else would step it up.

I don't get it or see any train wreck - more of a hit n run!

Why is this an issue to discuss and why is there an accepted negative result?

Ferrari enthusiasts and owners on both sites should be commending Stef for doing his duediligence.

I call bullshit - on the guys over at f-chat for not supporting Stef as I read the thread and it's utter bs.

A guy goes out of his way to enlighten the members and gets banned for it.

If a tenant ever came to me and told me another tenant was disruptive and I said - well they pay more rent - so to keep them I am terminating you for being a repeated nuisance tenant.

One guy says Rob had a legal duty to ban Stef - really?

What the f*ck kind of law theory is that - love to see that case cited!

Welcome to the real world of Fchat - where as long as you act like a good lil child you will be treated like one.

Ladies and Gentlmen - we are Ferrari owners and enthusiasts not some kids whining about the cafeteria food.

Give the brand some respect and the owners and enthusiasts for supporting it ... we are not here for the sponsors they are here for us!

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post #20 of 245 Old 10-29-2011, 08:17 AM
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Give the brand some respect and the owners and enthusiasts for supporting it ... we are not here for the sponsors they are here for us!
Amen! This is a smoking gun. For sure. Fabspeed should really provide a proper response to this. So AP and Fabspeed are essentially the same thing?
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