360 Batteries - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 10-23-2011, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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360 Batteries

Hi everyone. I just wanted to clear something up. I have heard a lot about battery trickle chargers, etc. but that is not possible for me as I would have to keep the car outside. So, does the regular battery last as long as any other car battery? A couple of years without a charger and then change it for a new one for example? Thanks. -Bob.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-23-2011, 11:13 AM
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Bob- If you drive the car regularly, the battery will last just as long in a Ferrari as in any other car. The Interstate MTP-91 in my car has been going strong for nearly four years (85 month warranty) and is never on a charger unless I will be gone over two weeks. That means it has not been on a charger for over 3 years.

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post #3 of 18 Old 10-23-2011, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Taz

Thanks Taz. I really appreciate that info. It was just that I was under the impression that lots of owners here use chargers and maybe that was because the battery drains more in a Ferrari than a normal car. I cannot use a charger, so I appreciate your info. Good to know I can keep the car outside. -Bob.
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-24-2011, 09:10 AM
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have you considered a solar charger ? Ferrari like all current generation cars have a lot of stuff needing power ( memories, alarm systems, various remote locks, etc ) even though the key if off. About all the key does is switch the motor off, while all the other stuff is still using power. If the car is used infrequently or known not to be used for a period of time it is good to have some sort of charge / battery maintainance. Short trips with infrequent use may not be sufficient to keep a battey charged. Deltran makes a solar battery charger / maintainer with a regulator (prevent overcharging ). It would be good to determine how much power is actually being used before purchase to make sure the solar charger is able to deliver enough to keep up. Solar chargers have low output and work only during periods of daylight, the idea being to get properly sized with enough charge during daylight to replace 24 hours of drain.
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post #5 of 18 Old 10-25-2011, 03:03 PM
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My battery lasted 8 years, finally kicked the bucket earlier this year. Just use it regularly and you should be good to go.

Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!
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post #6 of 18 Old 10-25-2011, 06:15 PM
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Sid- I keep looking at a high end battery like an Odyssey 34R-PC1500, but the $125 (or whatever they are now, they have gone way up) Interstate MTP-91 just keeps on humming. Truck batteries are tough.

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post #7 of 18 Old 10-25-2011, 08:08 PM
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Ferrari's keep their ECU's energized. That uses current.

Therefore, you have to keep a tender on your battery to ensure it stays charged.

Shutting off the battery may prolong it's status but that does nothing for the car's electronics.

So, keep the battery on a tender!

Then you can sing "love me tender"!!!!
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post #8 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbernst929 View Post
Hi everyone. I just wanted to clear something up. I have heard a lot about battery trickle chargers, etc. but that is not possible for me as I would have to keep the car outside. So, does the regular battery last as long as any other car battery? A couple of years without a charger and then change it for a new one for example? Thanks. -Bob.
Maybe this perception is due to the fact that many F owners drive their cars intermittently with relatively long intervals in between, thus the backup. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #9 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 05:23 AM
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when considering a new battery one should also look at a number called "Reserve Capacity" ("RC") ( in US specs ). It refers to how long a battery can supply power at a constant rate expressesd in hours / ampere hours.
"Cold Cranking Amperes" is a value that is available for starting, in burst mode, expressed in seconds ( a number in 500 -1000 range ). One has little to do with the other. It has to do with the internal construction and how long a battery can deliver its power. It is the Reserve Capacity of a battery that keeps the various accessories powered up for days. Batteries can have similar CCA, yet have very different Reserve Capacities. A new highest quality start only designed battery with a low RC can go flat quickly with a small constant drain. It's more than 12V on the battery, be aware of what one is getting, battery technology has evolved and can make a significant difference to enjoying our cars
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post #10 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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All true

All true guys. But, I cannot keep a charger on the car period. So, given this, I suppose I am at the mercy of the reserve life of the battery. I usually would not leave the car unused for long periods except on vacations of two weeks. Question: Does the 360 or 430 have systems that slightly drain the battery everytime the car is off? Is this normal or not? -Bob.
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post #11 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbernst929 View Post
All true guys. But, I cannot keep a charger on the car period. So, given this, I suppose I am at the mercy of the reserve life of the battery. I usually would not leave the car unused for long periods except on vacations of two weeks. Question: Does the 360 or 430 have systems that slightly drain the battery everytime the car is off? Is this normal or not? -Bob.
determine the drain on your battery, compare that with the capacity, as 2 weeks and more should be within the normal realm of sustainability... or ( perhaps even easier... you could do it online ) compare the reserve capacity specs of the current battery with that of other batteries. The reserve capacity between batteries ( of same group size ) can vary by a factor of 2 or 3 times.

for an extended layup, it may be more paletable to disconnect the battery entirely ( by switch or terminal )... and deal with the reprograming routine of the systems as they reset themselves... a few minutes of aggrevation vs a few hours to bring around a totally flat battery.

The cars are wired either all switched or unswitched. It is possible to rewire to further select what stays hot and what does not. In reality not very practical with limited gain.
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post #12 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 08:06 AM
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Bob- Here are some battery choices I put together. Also, if you do an absorption test, this is how long Ferrari says your charge should last:

<40 ma 25 days
40-60 ma 20 days
60-80 ma 15 days
80-100 ma 10 days

In general, if you drive it once a week and fully charge the battery, you will never have a problem.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Ferrari Battery 02.doc (2.16 MB, 239 views)

Taz
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post #13 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Bob- Here are some battery choices I put together. Also, if you do an absorption test, this is how long Ferrari says your charge should last:

<40 ma 25 days
40-60 ma 20 days
60-80 ma 15 days
80-100 ma 10 days

In general, if you drive it once a week and fully charge the battery, you will never have a problem.
your math is a bit incomplete

the " absorbtion test" is the rate of power usage / discharge by the mentioned models. these values are in ma ( mille amperes or 1000ths )

Reserve Capacity of a battery is measured in AH ampere hours, so that an AH of capacity could last weeks ( when used in ma)...( miles per gallon of gas )

typical batteries are considered discharged when at 50% of rated capacity

your battery reference does not have any mention of Reserve Capacity ( the total amount of power available ... gallons or miles per tank of gas ) it only addresses the start capacity cranking amperes / cold cranking amperes, which is the value needed to make use of the absorbtion values.

it used to be that we were only concerned with what it takes to get a motor started ( old school ), today we must also be concerned about the ability to supply power to the various accessories / computers / memories / that need to be kept alive. That value is expressed in the Reserve Capacity. The two capabilites are not dependent on each other. Battery manufacturers are developing batteries which try better to meet both demands. There are hybrid and dual batteries being developed. The dual batteries are like two systems in one, starter is wired to separate terminals, while powered systems are connected to a deep cycle portion.

as has been mentioned, to keep systems powered up and reduce the chance of a battery going flat one needs to compare the reserve capacity to get the best battery for the task.
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 09:19 AM
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Fromage- I was not talking about reserve capacity, you were, and those absorption numbers are out of the Ferrari workshop manuals. Also you spelled absorption incorrectly. Look it up. Most reserve capacities are stated in minutes at 25 Amps and are typically in the 100+ minutes range. Only one of the batteries in the document is missing RC.

Why not dig up the reserve capacity missing on the MTP-91 in my document? Then we can improve the document.

It never cheers up anybody with a math degree to be told his math is incomplete, especially when math had nothing to do with the subject.

Most batteries are considered deep discharged at 80% or less.

Taz
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post #15 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 10:19 AM
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my bad, slow online response to not seeing all the examples

I'll have a talk with my fingers when it comes to spelling in a foreign language

yes I am addressing the reserve capacity, since sustainability of a charge over time is in play, especially since things have a need to be powered up. It is a value that is overlooked by the old school types and not clearly nor consistantly addressed in battery specs / literature. The values shown varied from high amperes in minutes or seconds to many thousands of hours at ma. A lot of confusion for someone not versed in what the various specs mean, further confused by the technology behind the various batteries... which inturn adds to the capabilities / comfusion... typical flooded cell batteries are considered discharged at 50% of rating... a value that changes with the technology used. One of the examples was a deep cycle... more "apples and oranges"

The point I am making, as you have demonstrated as well, there is a wide spectrum of battery choices... it is possible to improve on the specs of a battery that one is using, battery designs can be very skewed, newer designs are coming on line that better meet current demands.
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post #16 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well actually I dont ask

I dont ask about the batteries statistics when replacing batteries, mainly because Jaguar replaces them free (within warranty). I think they are Interstate. Anyway, I just wanted to know that I could keep the Ferrari outside without a charger. I usually will replace batteries every two years regardless because I would rather pay the price than be stuck somewhere. So, in an abundance of caution I do it. -Bob.
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post #17 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 02:01 PM
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Bob- For a regularly used battery, 2 year replacement is overkill. Both the Interstates in the document I attached were 85 month warranty batteries. Mine has not been on a charger for 3 years, and works like a champ. I keep trying to justify an Odyssey, but it may take another 3 or 4 years at least before my MTP-91 gives up the ghost.

What everyone forgets is Ferraris are just cars. Batteries in Ferraris pretty much obey the laws of physics. What causes most problems is Ferrari owners' reluctance to drive the cars often enough to make them happy. They are, after all, female mechanical devices, and do not like being ignored.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #18 of 18 Old 10-26-2011, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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I hear ya Taz

I hear ya Taz and if I get a Ferrari i PROMISE to use it everyday. It may be to the grocery store or pharmacy, but I will take a longer route afterwards to keep the oil warm as they say. I know two years is overkill for the batteries, I am just anal that way. I cant stand going out to the car in the morning and finding it dead or worse yet, stranded out. But, I promise to love and maintain my Ferrari... when I get one that is. -Bob.
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