Scuds 175k - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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Scuds 175k

It's not just one or two it's the market.

The Stradale and Scud markets are very close - saw a scud with under 10k miles for 165k for sale by owner which means this winter we could see 150k Scuds!

IMO - 2012 is going to be a good year and believe the Scuds aren't going any lower after this winter as the economy picks up.

Scud to 458 = 125k loss ... i don't get it!
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post #2 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 07:30 AM
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Honestly, its what we all expected, depreciation on and on.....problem is Stradale and Scuds are "derivatives" of mass production Modena's and 430's. Yes they are phantastic cars and you get a lot of Ferrari for the buck, but what once seperated them from their mass production brothers, lightness and nimbledness, is fighted down by every "next generation" Ferrari model. Hardly a reason to appreciate IMO.
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post #3 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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Honestly, its what we all expected, depreciation on and on.....problem is Stradale and Scuds are "derivatives" of mass production Modena's and 430's. Yes they are phantastic cars and you get a lot of Ferrari for the buck, but what once seperated them from their mass production brothers, lightness and nimbledness, is fighted down by every "next generation" Ferrari model. Hardly a reason to appreciate IMO.
08 Scuds from 300 to 175 was expected?

Ya gotta remember some of these went for way more than list.

07 599's that are below 200k went for 500k.

I still say the Scuds are special cars - numbers will rise before they drop if and when that 150k mark hits.

My 612 has dropped 10-15k in two years and 8k miles... costs less to drive then a Cadillac.
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post #4 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:02 AM
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Doug- Not everybody wants a hairshirt Ferrari and they built too many to satisfy that crowd. The CS is the prettiest of all the 360/430 series, so it maintaining price is understandable, but the CS is coming down also and 1300 CS models built is only limited production when compared to 10,000+ 360s and a similar number of F430s. They only built 2064 575Ms and 3125 (or was it 3025?) 612s, but nobody claims that is limited production.

Good news is a Scud is a lot of car for $175K. People were paying premiums for them and most were north of $300K, like a new V12, so only a little over half is a great price. Sure tumbled fast, though. Bad timing and bad economy.

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post #5 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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I came into the Ferrari scene right when Ferrari stepped up production. Recall guys dropping 100's over for the scud and the Enzo driven 599.

Kept hearing how guys could buy a Ferrari keep it and resell it with a very small - if any loss.

Sucds are now too low IMO and agree it's market driven - still believe when the market bounces back and the 458 owners are out of Scuds to trade these babies will be back. It's just too much car vs a GT3 and likes.

Stradales are equal to 430's
Scud's should equal 458's - ok so I am dreaming but 125k difference?

Keep the Scud and get a Spider 430 makes more sense vs chasing the latest and greatest for Scud owners only of course ... just can't see the 125k difference and that's IF you paid list.
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post #6 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:29 AM
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08 Scuds from 300 to 175 was expected?
Answer: Absolutely.

It is true that when they first came out, people were paying $100K over MSRP for 360 Modenas and Spiders. But at the same time, market experts were predicting depreciation of around 50% in 5 years, give or take. That is exactly what happened.

There are probably several additional factors that are influencing the current market, the economic downturn being just one, but the overall depreciation model is still holding. I believe the major factor holding up Stradale and Scuderia prices is the "floor" created by the models below them (the 355s, 360s, and even the 3x8 series).

Stradale and Scuderia prices will undoubtedly decline more, how much is open to debate. But even if they hold at 150, the 458 will be close in a couple more years. For the same money, how many would opt for a Stradale or Scuderia over a 458? I think Taz hit the central issue; the damand signal will probably not drive prices up.
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post #7 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Answer: Absolutely.

It is true that when they first came out, people were paying $100K over MSRP for 360 Modenas and Spiders. But at the same time, market experts were predicting depreciation of around 50% in 5 years, give or take. That is exactly what happened.

There are probably several additional factors that are influencing the current market, the economic downturn being just one, but the overall depreciation model is still holding. I believe the major factor holding up Stradale and Scuderia prices is the "floor" created by the models below them (the 355s, 360s, and even the 3x8 series).

Stradale and Scuderia prices will undoubtedly decline more, how much is open to debate. But even if they hold at 150, the 458 will be close in a couple more years. For the same money, how many would opt for a Stradale or Scuderia over a 458? I think Taz hit the central issue; the damand signal will probably not drive prices up.
Time will tell but your post supports my claim.

If in 2013 a Scud is worth 150 then buy one and drive it for two years which is cheaper than driving a Cadillac.

I know most guys don't want to use it as a dd but they could and have the same loss as a 65k car

I don't like the word opportunist - but it does apply in the good part of the definition with a Scud.
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post #8 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 10:49 AM
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Scuds here are now in the GBP 110k range. A lot of car of the money and probably close to the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Challenge Stradales are GBP 20-30k less still.

Scud is definitely high on my wish list for 2012.
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post #9 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Scuds here are now in the GBP 110k range. A lot of car of the money and probably close to the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Challenge Stradales are GBP 20-30k less still.

Scud is definitely high on my wish list for 2012.
Have you own or driven a CGT - curious about your impressions?

The only complaints I have heard is the clutch on a hill and the light flywheel.
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post #10 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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Absolutely love the Scuderia

Unfortunately prices here in South Africa are sitting at an average of ZAR 2.7million which is roughly $380,000 / 235,000.

Does anyone know the total of how many Scuds were produced?
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post #11 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 12:43 PM
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Have you own or driven a CGT - curious about your impressions?

The only complaints I have heard is the clutch on a hill and the light flywheel.
Big fan of the Carrera GT. Clutch is a definite learned skill. Once you are rolling it is fine but starting and crawling along is a real art. Very very quick and the brakes are impressive.
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post #12 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 01:58 PM
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Big fan of the Carrera GT. Clutch is a definite learned skill. Once you are rolling it is fine but starting and crawling along is a real art. Very very quick and the brakes are impressive.
I'm not sold on the looks. But I'm wondering about the sound - has anybody heard it and how does it rank?


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post #13 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 02:00 PM
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Does anyone know the total of how many Scuds were produced?
My guesstimate is around 1,500. No proof to back it up. Does anybody know if I'm close?


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post #14 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 02:02 PM
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I'm not sold on the looks. But I'm wondering about the sound - has anybody heard it and how does it rank?


Onno
Sounds just like F1, Onno. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #15 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Big fan of the Carrera GT. Clutch is a definite learned skill. Once you are rolling it is fine but starting and crawling along is a real art. Very very quick and the brakes are impressive.
I have heard some guys can't handle the clutch burn it out and sell.

Others do learn as you posted - but still complain it's challenging on a hill or traffic.

Agreed very quick
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post #16 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds just like F1, Onno. w/ smiles Jimmy
I have heard it and agree Jimmy
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post #17 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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hmmmmmmmmmm..........

why in the world would Doug be starting a thread on Scud pricing???????


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post #18 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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hmmmmmmmmmm..........

why in the world would Doug be starting a thread on Scud pricing???????


haha

I am a deal guy that has a love affair with CF ... which is why I love the Scud 16M and CGT

There was a 599 loaded with CF inside and out but I missed it
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post #19 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:05 PM
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I fell in love with driving my friends Scuderia last year. I like the CS as well but have never driven one.

As far as the Scuderia pricing goes.....I would most likely own one if I did not have such a soft spot for my Barchetta & 575. I think the V-12 cars hold more of an appeal because I like the comfort of long highway drives and it is relaxing.

Driving the Scud makes me want to push it near it's limit (and mine) all the time.
It is a rush and better than a double espresso for me

I would get into a LOT of trouble if I owned a Scud because we may not even have a track in Calgary next year.

The Scud is a great car and I also did not think they would drop in price this much. Great car, great value!
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post #20 of 61 Old 09-04-2011, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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I fell in love with driving my friends Scuderia last year. I like the CS as well but have never driven one.

As far as the Scuderia pricing goes.....I would most likely own one if I did not have such a soft spot for my Barchetta & 575. I think the V-12 cars hold more of an appeal because I like the comfort of long highway drives and it is relaxing.

Driving the Scud makes me want to push it near it's limit (and mine) all the time.
It is a rush and better than a double espresso for me

I would get into a LOT of trouble if I owned a Scud because we may not even have a track in Calgary next year.

The Scud is a great car and I also did not think they would drop in price this much. Great car, great value!
Domenic really curious of your impression regarding comfort and noise.

Guys have told me it's a better dd than a std 430.

I am on the phone a lot so I need to be able to carry on a conversation while driving.
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