Porsche to target Ferrari buyers with new model - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 04:56 AM Thread Starter
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Porsche to target Ferrari buyers with new model

Porsche to target Ferrari buyers with new model: report | Reuters

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Porsche to target Ferrari buyers with new model: report

3:46am EDT

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - German group Porsche (PSHG_p.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) is planning to develop a sportscar that would compete directly with the more exclusive Ferrari (FIA.MI: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) brand, its chief executive said.

"It always irritated me that the (most expensive) 911 tops out at 250,000 euros ($360,000) and then the 918 continues starting at 750,000 euros," Matthias Mueller told German daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung in an interview published on Monday.

"In between, Ferrari moseys around relatively comfortably and without any competition. That is where we need to be. There is still space for a larger sports car, one like the 959 that we built in the 1980s."

He said such a model could cost 250,000-400,000 euros.

So far, the company had projected to have seven model lines, up from the four it is currently selling. A new, pricier sports car would be number eight.

Mueller has planned -- in addition to the existing four model lines Boxster, 911, Cayenne and Panamera -- a small mid-engine roadster patterned on the 550 Spyder, a smaller SUV dubbed the Cajun and a smaller version of the Panamera GT.


(Reporting by Christiaan Hetzner; Editing by Dan Lalor)
Possible Flat/Boxer '8' from Porsche?

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post #2 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 07:14 AM
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Why on earth anyone would pay 400 large for a Porsche is beyond me.

Who would be their target market, and how many people would it comprise??
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 07:21 AM
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 02:49 PM
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All I could make out of that article was

- charge a bundle

- make a something-or-other to counter Ferrari

- bring in the marketing and wannabe-techno-managers, wait, they are the same there.

Porsche makes fine cars, and even a very nice upper end....why butt heads unless they get into F1. They are doing fine in their area.

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post #5 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 03:12 PM
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WOOHOO, cant wait to see anothe ugly Porsche.

911, I get it, they made one good car.

Boxster, 911 rip off.

Cayman, boxster rip off.

Panamera, possibly the ugliest car ever made.

Did anyone see the Top Gear episdoe where they rated the best 4 door made?

They all panned the Porsche!!

NO PORSCHE WILL EVER COMPETE WITH A FERRARI FOR CURB APPEAL
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 05:26 PM
 
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Can't agree more Porsche design has to be the laziest design studio in the world. No disrespect to the 911 as it is a proper sports car but it's had the same dull design for decades. All they do for their other models is put in a different engine and give it a new name(Boxster/Cayman/959). However they can make a beautiful car when they want to, the Carrera GT was amazing! They made a good looking supercar without striving to far away from their roots, it could even keep pace with the Ferraris of the day. I would love to see a replacement for it and I absolutely love the 918, but I would never ever buy one over any Ferrari. Ferraris have something that no other car company can completely replicate and that's SOUL!
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post #7 of 26 Old 08-29-2011, 06:41 PM
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I guess the Porsche chief exec forgot to read the news. McLaren's MP4 will give Ferrari a run well before Porsche can.
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Evolve13 View Post
Cayman, boxster rip off.
Have you driven one?

I have owned one (an S) since April. It's just a daily driver and will never have the charisma of a Ferrari. But as a DD, it is an AWESOME car. Truly is. Fantastic weight distribution, lovely handling being slightly tailhappy (well noted for better handling than the 911), and quick enough. Fantastic interior, great ergonomics, practical for a mid engine car.

It's just a shopping trolley. But I love going shopping in it. I actually hate shopping, but any excuse to drive it.

As far as competing with Ferrari goes - no way. There are people who revere Porsche, and also those who hate Ferrari and just want to buy anything that competes with Maranello, but the majority will still stick with the Prancing Horse. This is because they've continued with their formula. Any Ferrari can show up at the club meeting and fit into the exclusivity of the event, but can you imagine sharing the club meet with Panameras and Cayennes? With Ferrari, the 250GTO rubs off on the 308. With Porsche, the Cayenne rubs off on the 911RS.

Personally, I love Porsches as driving machines. And I love Porsche's history. It's a proper brand that has unfortunately been cheapened by their decision to build more than sportscars. People say they are disgusted by Ferrari's marketing and exploitation of the brand, but I think Porsche has committed far worse sins.

Just as an observation: I frequently get the idea that when people think of Porsche vs Ferrari, they think blue collar vs white collar. Especially English fans seem to think along those lines. It's such non-sense. Porsches have never been affordable from new. Just more affordable than Ferrari, but it's still a luxury car in every sense of the word.


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post #9 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 01:55 AM
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With Ferrari, the 250GTO rubs off on the 308. With Porsche, the Cayenne rubs off on the 911RS.
Onno
Onno, that sums it up nicely.

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post #10 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 02:34 AM
 
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Porsche make some pretty nice cars, but I've got no idea why VAG want to compete with themselves. The only company they will be taking sales from will be Lamborghini and not Ferrari as is their plan.

The $300k+ market is in pretty thin air, and it looks like they've learned nothing from the sales flop that was the Carrera GT.
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 07:14 AM
 
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The worst thing in that article is that it is entirely focused on price. Nothing about a vision for a car that Porsche desires to build, technology only available at a limited market, etc.

Only - hey look - they sell some at that price - maybe we should too!

Talk about making potential buyers feel like suckers... Mr. Mueller should be banned rom ever speaking to the press again IMO.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
Have you driven one?

I have owned one (an S) since April. It's just a daily driver and will never have the charisma of a Ferrari. But as a DD, it is an AWESOME car. Truly is. Fantastic weight distribution, lovely handling being slightly tailhappy (well noted for better handling than the 911), and quick enough. Fantastic interior, great ergonomics, practical for a mid engine car.

It's just a shopping trolley. But I love going shopping in it. I actually hate shopping, but any excuse to drive it.

As far as competing with Ferrari goes - no way. There are people who revere Porsche, and also those who hate Ferrari and just want to buy anything that competes with Maranello, but the majority will still stick with the Prancing Horse. This is because they've continued with their formula. Any Ferrari can show up at the club meeting and fit into the exclusivity of the event, but can you imagine sharing the club meet with Panameras and Cayennes? With Ferrari, the 250GTO rubs off on the 308. With Porsche, the Cayenne rubs off on the 911RS.

Personally, I love Porsches as driving machines. And I love Porsche's history. It's a proper brand that has unfortunately been cheapened by their decision to build more than sportscars. People say they are disgusted by Ferrari's marketing and exploitation of the brand, but I think Porsche has committed far worse sins.

Just as an observation: I frequently get the idea that when people think of Porsche vs Ferrari, they think blue collar vs white collar. Especially English fans seem to think along those lines. It's such non-sense. Porsches have never been affordable from new. Just more affordable than Ferrari, but it's still a luxury car in every sense of the word.


Onno


Very well said.


I have always thought well of Porsche products but never think of them (at least the street cars) as shoulder to shoulder with Ferrari.
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 08:15 AM
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I don't understand the corporate inferiority complex. Porsches are reliable, stylish, stupid quick conveyances with their own rabid following. A step up from most cars. I don't even consider them German corvettes. They represent a thoughtfulness of design and function no american car manufacturer has ever come close to. I think they fill the niche of speed and utility quite nicely. Hell they even have their own race provenance as a company.

Ferraris are on a different plain all together. Same as Lamborghini and smaller cottage industry cars like Spyker and Bugatti.

Why mess with what isn't broken?

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post #14 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by barcheta View Post
I don't understand the corporate inferiority complex. Porsches are reliable, stylish, stupid quick conveyances with their own rabid following. A step up from most cars. I don't even consider them German corvettes. They represent a thoughtfulness of design and function no american car manufacturer has ever come close to. I think they fill the niche of speed and utility quite nicely. Hell they even have their own race provenance as a company.

Ferraris are on a different plain all together. Same as Lamborghini and smaller cottage industry cars like Spyker and Bugatti.

Why mess with what isn't broken?



Like any company, there is a market segment they have no presence in. They want their share.

Have you ever wondered why cereal or candy bar companies have so many similar products? Car builders are no different. Ferrari would be acting the same way if they had the resources.

Thank God they don't.

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post #15 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 11:49 AM
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Ferrari would be acting the same way if they had the resources.
Seems to me they could get the resources easily if they really wanted to. But then, they'd diminish their own brand. The curse of being the best I suppose...
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 01:45 PM
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Update


Porsche mulls flat-8 for Ferrari rival - Autocar.co.uk

Porsche is considering engineering a flat-eight boxster engine for its Ferrari-rivalling supercar, company bosses have admitted.
At the first unveiling of the new 991-series 911, Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche head of Research and Development said such an engine was ‘possible’. He told Autocar: "We have to go into that market properly equipped.".
See a picture of Porsche's previous flat-eight machine
This week Porsche CEO Mathhias Müller said he was ‘irritated’ that Porsche didn’t compete with Ferrari in the 250,000 Euros-plus price range. He said there was space for a car like the seminal 1980s high-tech 959 model.
Porsche engineers have long been frustrated by the fact that the company’s iconic flat-six engine cannot be extended much beyond 4.0-litres. It’s also felt that in the Ferrari-dominated market, eight cylinders are a pre-requisite.
Moving to a larger engine would also differentiate the new model from the new 911 and next-generation Cayman range. It’s thought that the creation of such an engine has been made easier by the engineering working currently being done on the new turbocharged flat-four engine, which will be offered in Porsche’s planned entry-level roadster. This all-new motor is thought to be modular, allowing it to be extended into the next-generation flat-6 and a flat-8.
Hatz also said that a development of the Carrera GT’s ultra-compact transmission could be used for the new model. Such a transmission would free-up space for the use of the longer eight-cylinder engine.
"We could develop it, of course, One of the key issues is where we put the differential, but it is a possibility," he said.
In 1969 Porsche built two flat-eight equipped versions of the mid-engined 914, one of which was given to Ferry Porsche (Ferdinand Porsche’s son) for his 60th birthday. The other is in the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart. Despite the concept’s age, the 3.0-litre naturally-aspirated engine was still good for nearly 300bhp.
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Like any company, there is a market segment they have no presence in. They want their share.
There's a reason they have no presense in that segment.... because they aren't capable of appealing to the segment in a way that makes you want to go and buy their product... as someone else stated the Carrera GT is a perfect case in point. Some of it is cultural but most of it is consumer preception.... much like what has been posted here.

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post #18 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 02:50 PM
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My take based on their release of tech info is:

- not a fail but not a competition to Ferrari: Truly, nice homage to 60 b'day.

- they want their beaks wet, but will not impress the Ferrari community based on
a. flat eight IMO doesn't quite get there, but they are gifted I guess.
b. at that price!! $360k!!!

They have the resources and good luck. I'd pick the 458 over that scenario/price

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post #19 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 03:01 PM
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Porsche is considering .... its Ferrari-rivalling supercar, company bosses have admitted.
Ferrari-rivaling Porsche ?!?!

Now if that isn't an oxymoron I don't know what is.
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post #20 of 26 Old 08-30-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by barcheta View Post
There's a reason they have no presense in that segment.... because they aren't capable of appealing to the segment in a way that makes you want to go and buy their product... as someone else stated the Carrera GT is a perfect case in point. Some of it is cultural but most of it is consumer preception.... much like what has been posted here.


I agree with you but someone should tell the Germans.


I actually find the flat 8 idea appealing. A modern mid engine (rear engine is so 60's. Come on Porsche join the modern age) 500 or so HP would be a cool car.

Problem with flat motors is packaging. It is hard to fit between the wheels. Ferrari knew that in 1985 and told us right then and there the TR was the last of the flat motors. Far too many compromises to make it fit. But Porsche has built their company on the idea like Harley and the Vtwin. To admit the flat motor is a bad arrangement is to admit the company was built on a bad idea.
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