What the current thought about cut Daytonas? - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
What the current thought about cut Daytonas?

This one seemed to go for what I think is below market for a cut car, especially with it having gone back to Scaglietti as the original 126 did. Is there greater acceptance depending on who did the chopping? Or is it considered to be taboo much like making a California out of a 250 GTE?

1973 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona Spyder for sale by Mecum Auction

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 07:28 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
wetpet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chevy Chase, Md
Ferrari Life Posts: 9,567
what was the sold price. thought the cut ones go for around the price of the coupes. The ones i have seen look quite good. i think this one was a stramen.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
Attached Images
 

Last edited by wetpet; 08-23-2011 at 07:33 AM.
wetpet is offline  
post #3 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
$300K I think.The exposed headlights with the plexiglass covering is from the first series european cars if I'm correct. US cars had popups. I love a Daytona and it's one of the few Ferraris I wouldn't mind having in red.

The Straman conversions versus the Scaglietti ones is kind of what I'm getting at though. Is there a preference? Does it even matter as long as it's faithful to how the originals were?

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....

Last edited by barcheta; 08-23-2011 at 07:46 AM.
barcheta is offline  
 
post #4 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,881
JB- I think Ed is correct, a cut Daytona is worth about what a coupe is and the prices seem to hover around $300K for a nice one. Experts can always tell when a car was cut and there are two or three telltales that are just too difficult to duplicate without really ripping the car and chassis apart.

My Dec 1970 Euro Daytona, 14009, was sold to Belgium and ended up being cut. What started out as a white with green leather coupe ended up being a red with tan spider. It was painted yellow when I had it.

Taz
Terry Phillips
tazandjan is offline  
post #5 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 10:57 AM
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
It really depends on who did the "cutting" and why. Many of the cut Spiders were coupes that had been crashed. Turning them into Spiders was both cheaper and generated more resale value. Mike Sheehan did quite a few of them and if you are interested, it is worth giving him a call.

In Europe a few cut Spiders have been reconverted to coupes.
Boxer is offline  
post #6 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
Tell me about your Daytona Terry. Do you still wish you had it? What was the ownership experience like? I've been pining for a Daytona spyder for years.... And truthfully I don't care if its a cut car or not. I rode in Marriotts and fell in love with it. So visceral and raw but elegant at the same time.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #7 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
It really depends on who did the "cutting" and why. Many of the cut Spiders were coupes that had been crashed. Turning them into Spiders was both cheaper and generated more resale value. Mike Sheehan did quite a few of them and if you are interested, it is worth giving him a call.

In Europe a few cut Spiders have been reconverted to coupes.
Interesting. I wonder who did the best conversions. I've heard that Sheehan did them but I'm curious as to the quality of the different coachbuilders. I would assume it would be pretty hard to do it better than Scaglietti.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #8 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 11:31 AM
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by barcheta View Post
Tell me about your Daytona Terry. Do you still wish you had it? What was the ownership experience like? I've been pining for a Daytona spyder for years.... And truthfully I don't care if its a cut car or not. I rode in Marriotts and fell in love with it. So visceral and raw but elegant at the same time.
Suggest you contact both 212 Export and wheels1 (he is in the process of restoring a cut spider). They are the in-house Daytona experts.
Boxer is offline  
post #9 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 12:40 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,881
JB- I traded a Dino 246 GT plus $5K for the Daytona in 1978, picked it up in Houston (Kurt Mocher at Monza Automobili) and drove it home to Clovis, NM, where I was flying F-111Ds. I had a bunch of Ferrari tech data I had acquired and swapped its use for a translation of the Daytona workshop manual by Angelo Wallace. He borrowed my 365 GT4/BB WSM in exchange.

The car itself was a revelation, easy to drive except at parking lot speeds, and a high speed cruiser without equal back then. I thought the oil temperature gauge was inop during the cruise back to Clovis (~750 miles), until I finally ran at very high speed for a several mile stretch and she finally came off the peg. Shifting was very good and the car cornered well, considering how much it weighed. She was still fitted with 7.5" wheels and 215/70 XWXs back then, and they were the state of the art tires fitted to Ferraris and the 911S. I later put 9" wheels from a 512 BB on the back, but never got any photos.

I built my own distributor test machine using the instructions in the WSM and could remove the distributors in about 30 seconds for setting up the points. With four sets of points, each running 3 cylinders, they needed to be correct. Accleration was, for then, unbelievable above 100 mph. Having owned a FI 63 Corvette that was souped up and a 67 427/390 that was even more souped up, the low speed acceleration was impressive, about like the Vettes. ABove 100 mph, though, it was way quicker.

All the systems on the car were very simple and easy to work on. I did all the normal maintenance like adjusting the chain tension, changing the valve shims and plugs (thank God for NGKs and then Bosch platinum tips), and setting up the timing. I do remember not having the big picture the first time I changed the oil, though. I had one of those 12 quart plastic pan/container and I flowed about 4 quarts of oil onto the garage floor. No wonder it took so long to warm th e oil, there were about 17 quarts in there

All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed the car and drove her for about 2 years.

To be honest, though, my 575M is a much better car, with air conditioning that really works, way higher cornering power, and much better brakes (especially since mine has Mov'It CER ceramic brakes).

The Maranello is a better car, but not necessarily a better Ferrari, an important distinction.

Boxer- I have been doing this a long time. Bought my first Ferrari in 1975 and drove it from Poughkeepsie, NY (John Romano) to Clovis, NM. Never rich, but loved flying fighters, really flying them, an experience you cannot buy, and loved Ferraris. I never could afford any of the Ferraris I owned, but if you want something badly enough...

The photos show the car just after getting back to Clovis, and I had not waxed the wheels, replaced the ugly mirror with an OEM one, or taken off the front license plate holder. Thank goodness for FAF back then.

Taz
Terry Phillips
Attached Images
     
tazandjan is offline  
post #10 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
Fantastic description and what I have perceived in my minds eye about what it must be like to have one.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #11 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Suggest you contact both 212 Export and wheels1 (he is in the process of restoring a cut spider). They are the in-house Daytona experts.
Thanks!

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #12 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 02:20 PM
Owner
 
JazzyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,397
Great stories Terry, thanks for sharing. I've really warmed to Daytona's in recent years, not least because of 212's epic example.


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
JazzyO is offline  
post #13 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
I was just looking over the thread by Grant detailing his saga on restoring his Daytona. I absolutely love the color choice. It would be great to see a professionally done shoot with that car.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #14 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 11:06 PM
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Boxer- I have been doing this a long time. Bought my first Ferrari in 1975 and drove it from Poughkeepsie, NY (John Romano) to Clovis, NM. Never rich, but loved flying fighters, really flying them, an experience you cannot buy, and loved Ferraris. I never could afford any of the Ferraris I owned, but if you want something badly enough...
Taz, Your experience and knowledge on Ferraris is extremely rich. Flying a fighter is somehting I can only dream of doing.

I also owned my Daytona for about two years. Had a couple of great trips in it before it had to go to make way for the XJR-15. It went and cornered very well, stopping was a bit of another issue.
Boxer is offline  
post #15 of 41 Old 08-23-2011, 11:37 PM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Suggest you contact both 212 Export and wheels1 (he is in the process of restoring a cut spider). They are the in-house Daytona experts.
Thanks for the flowers Boxer. My comment to the Daytona: IMO the best classic car regarding driveability, usability, financiability which I had the pleasure to own (I never had a 250 TdF, SWB or Lusso nor a Boxer series car to thruthfully compare by driving them more than 10'000km's to become competent to judge (as I use to say))
Daytona is faster, more stable at high speeds and much more comfortable on long runs then anything of the older Ferrari cars I drove long distance. The next nearer choice would be the 330 GTC. But all this is only my personal opinion.
212Export is offline  
post #16 of 41 Old 08-24-2011, 12:18 AM
Owner
 
Vitalone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jersey
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,130
Quote:

Boxer- I have been doing this a long time. Bought my first Ferrari in 1975 and drove it from Poughkeepsie, NY (John Romano) to Clovis, NM. Never rich, but loved flying fighters, really flying them, an experience you cannot buy, and loved Ferraris. I never could afford any of the Ferraris I owned, but if you want something badly enough...

The photos show the car just after getting back to Clovis, and I had not waxed the wheels, replaced the ugly mirror with an OEM one, or taken off the front license plate holder. Thank goodness for FAF back then.

Taz
Terry Phillips
The stuff dreams are made of! Beautiful Daytona! Sad that she was later chopped and resprayed red to make her worth more money but less car (from a beautiful no-stories coupé with cool period colour scheme to another spyder copy with stories).

Last edited by Boxer; 08-24-2011 at 12:04 PM.
Vitalone is offline  
post #17 of 41 Old 08-24-2011, 07:30 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,881
Vitalone- We had changed her color, too, from white to giallo fly, so were not that pure. Repainting cars was not as big a deal back then and since they all rusted like all get out, repainting and repairing were often required quite early.

My Dino 246 GT, 02984 (Nov 71 build IIRC), was less than 3 years old when I got her in 1975 with about 15,000 miles, but the right front fender was rusted through and the whole car had to be repainted.

Same for my 78 308 GTS with 33K km that I picked up in 1981 from Germany (flying F-111Fs in England at the time). Both door skins rusted through and had to be replaced. I thought it was only paint bubbling, but when we went to the Colchester Ferrari dealer, the body shop manager stuck his finger right through my door panel. My heart nearly stopped. There were not very many Ferraris back then, especially from Europe, with no rust.

Taz
Terry Phillips
tazandjan is offline  
post #18 of 41 Old 08-24-2011, 08:44 AM
Owner
 
Vitalone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jersey
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,130
Taz, I have no problem with de-rusting and respraying cars (although a pity that so many changed from cool period colours to resale-red). Just a pity that many fine Ferrari's were made into a copy of something else such as Daytona's coupé's chopped into spyders or 2+2's made into GTO replica's.

In the same vein, I am currently restoring my '72 911S that lives in Johannesburg. What started out as a respray in her original gulf orange due to poor quality previous respray has become a full blown restoration. When stripped to bare metal we found a front end impact poorly repaired in a previous life (when an old 911 was not worth much and only cheap repairs made economic sense). Am grateful that they did not convert her into a RS replica as that would have made even more economic sense. Lots of rust found means new front wings and door skins have been obtained. Happily body parts available from the factory in Stuttgart. At a price. Even in sunny SA they rust...
Vitalone is offline  
post #19 of 41 Old 08-24-2011, 09:21 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,881
Vitalone- I agree and was not too happy about the Dino becoming a flares and chairs car in resale red, either. She looked really good in Rosso Dino.

Once you peel a car down from that era, it is amaziing what you find. I had a 69 911S, but it had spent its entire life in California and New Mexico, so no rust except where the twin batteries resided in the nose. Sold it for $5K (worth a bit more now) to buy the Dino.

Taz
Terry Phillips
tazandjan is offline  
post #20 of 41 Old 08-24-2011, 10:11 PM
Owner
 
USADino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USADino
Ferrari Life Posts: 854
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by barcheta View Post
$300K I think.The exposed headlights with the plexiglass covering is from the first series european cars if I'm correct. US cars had popups. I love a Daytona and it's one of the few Ferraris I wouldn't mind having in red.

The Straman conversions versus the Scaglietti ones is kind of what I'm getting at though. Is there a preference? Does it even matter as long as it's faithful to how the originals were?
$350 and No Sale


Taz,
Your Daytona doesn't have pop up headlights, is that what they call a 365 GTB4/A ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
JB- I traded a Dino 246 GT plus $5K for the Daytona in 1978, picked it up in Houston (Kurt Mocher at Monza Automobili) and drove it home to Clovis, NM, where I was flying F-111Ds. I had a bunch of Ferrari tech data I had acquired and swapped its use for a translation of the Daytona workshop manual by Angelo Wallace. He borrowed my 365 GT4/BB WSM in exchange.

The car itself was a revelation, easy to drive except at parking lot speeds, and a high speed cruiser without equal back then. I thought the oil temperature gauge was inop during the cruise back to Clovis (~750 miles), until I finally ran at very high speed for a several mile stretch and she finally came off the peg. Shifting was very good and the car cornered well, considering how much it weighed. She was still fitted with 7.5" wheels and 215/70 XWXs back then, and they were the state of the art tires fitted to Ferraris and the 911S. I later put 9" wheels from a 512 BB on the back, but never got any photos.

I built my own distributor test machine using the instructions in the WSM and could remove the distributors in about 30 seconds for setting up the points. With four sets of points, each running 3 cylinders, they needed to be correct. Accleration was, for then, unbelievable above 100 mph. Having owned a FI 63 Corvette that was souped up and a 67 427/390 that was even more souped up, the low speed acceleration was impressive, about like the Vettes. ABove 100 mph, though, it was way quicker.

All the systems on the car were very simple and easy to work on. I did all the normal maintenance like adjusting the chain tension, changing the valve shims and plugs (thank God for NGKs and then Bosch platinum tips), and setting up the timing. I do remember not having the big picture the first time I changed the oil, though. I had one of those 12 quart plastic pan/container and I flowed about 4 quarts of oil onto the garage floor. No wonder it took so long to warm th e oil, there were about 17 quarts in there

All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed the car and drove her for about 2 years.

To be honest, though, my 575M is a much better car, with air conditioning that really works, way higher cornering power, and much better brakes (especially since mine has Mov'It CER ceramic brakes).

The Maranello is a better car, but not necessarily a better Ferrari, an important distinction.

Boxer- I have been doing this a long time. Bought my first Ferrari in 1975 and drove it from Poughkeepsie, NY (John Romano) to Clovis, NM. Never rich, but loved flying fighters, really flying them, an experience you cannot buy, and loved Ferraris. I never could afford any of the Ferraris I owned, but if you want something badly enough...

The photos show the car just after getting back to Clovis, and I had not waxed the wheels, replaced the ugly mirror with an OEM one, or taken off the front license plate holder. Thank goodness for FAF back then.

Taz
Terry Phillips
USADino is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale