Is it just me? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-15-2010, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Is it just me?

I do not understand the move by ferrari to bring alonzo in so early when sebastian, lewis, and Jenson remained on track. I was screaming at the tv because Mark was going to be way in the back and the front four could pull out a lead that would allow them to gap the field for the first pit stop. As I predicted, Alonzo came in, got stuck behind the field with mark and the front 3 ran away with the race and alonzo lost the championship for this move.

Is it just me, but I think ferrari made a huge mistake and I don't buy the webber argument that the strategy was to stay in front of mark because he was going to lose a lot of time by being stuck behind traffic.

My thought, red bull did this intentionally to see if ferrari would bite, which they did, then handed the championship to sebastion. It worked beautifully.

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-15-2010, 05:34 PM
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I remember saying to myself "so when did Ferrari start following the crowd". Stupid move from any perspective. Why would you CHOOSE to be stuck in slower traffic?

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post #3 of 21 Old 11-15-2010, 05:41 PM
 
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I agree 100% that RED BULL had a plan and ferrari fell for it. I was so mad when they came in for tires that early. Made no sense . Ferrari did not have a tire problem. Ferrari made a huge mistake.
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post #4 of 21 Old 11-15-2010, 10:09 PM
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Ferrari blew it. Twice. First by not getting Massa in front of Webber after he pitted. Second time by then bringing in Alonso.
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 07:12 AM
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remember that the tires where going away from them and the backmarkers that went in for tires on the SC were putting up good times. webber really had no choice in his position. the decision was difficult but probably the best at the time. as the leaders stayed out, the tires semmed to "come back" to them and their lap times turned around. Hard to predict that, i remember the bbc presenters being amazed by that at the time. had the tires continued to degrade, and webber was making up time with new rubber, then the opposite would have happened. Just dumb luck really. great strategy by red bull. So i don't think it was dumb to pull alonzo in, just unlucky.



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post #6 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 01:23 PM
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It comes down to who they decided to race. Choice was made for Webber, in reality it should have been Vettel. With Webber caught behind Petrov & Rosberg, he was never going to be in a position to win.
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post #7 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 02:39 PM
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at the time, everyone including vettel and hamiltons tires were going away. they said as much on the radio. Hamilton was practically begging to come in saying his left front was gone. the backmarkers were looking better with their new tires after the safety car. I think ferrari rightly believed they would follow alonzo in to the pits. After a few more laps, the tires "came back" and they stayed out. Bad call, but pretty tough one at the time. just a guess that didn't play out the way they wanted.



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post #8 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
It comes down to who they decided to race. Choice was made for Webber, in reality it should have been Vettel. With Webber caught behind Petrov & Rosberg, he was never going to be in a position to win.
Agreed, he should have followed the 3 in front of him as it kept him in 4th which is what he needed. No way Webber was going to make up time in that traffic. Evidence, the front 3 stayed out front and pulled away from the field as their pit crews were following their lap times and if their tires were going bad, obviously their pit crews disagreed for some obvious reason to them. I am not aware of any tire that goes bad and then magically regenerates itself into a good tire, especially in racing.
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post #9 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 10:05 PM
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Given that they all monitor each others radio traffic, Hamilton's begging and then staying out might have been just a very well executed "head fake". If his tires were as bad as he was stating, then he would have just declared that he was coming in.
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post #10 of 21 Old 11-16-2010, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
It comes down to who they decided to race.
They should not have raced anybody. They should have aimed for the podium and it would not have mattered who finished where. But it is a fact that the Ferrari just wasn't quick enough to get the title - they were nowhere near Red Bull pace in the last 3 races and could only win the championship by faults of Red Bull. Since they had 2 contenders, the likelihood was one of them wouldn't make a mistake and grab it.

I can report that the mood at the factory was a bit glum on Monday...


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post #11 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 04:08 PM
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I am not aware of any tire that goes bad and then magically regenerates itself into a good tire, especially in racing.
you need a course in tire wear. you can get graining and then drive it off. track conditions change on each lap and can come to a tire, ect. re-listen to the bbc commentary. most of the back markers, webber and alonzo came in. they didn't do it because their tires where getting any better.

driver's don't say they are coming in to the pits. they have about 2 dozen engineers that tell them. now they can ask as lewis did. and they can be told to stay out like lewis was. all a ruse? unlikely. alonzo and webber had already pitted, button was on his team so it would have been vettel the ruse was for and he wouldn't have pitted before lewis. so i'm not buying that argument.

clearly the decision backfired on ferrari, but it could have just as easily gone it's way. at the time they made the decision, it may have been right. had they stayed out a few more laps and seen the top three come back around, which they did, they may have made another decision. oh well.

this whole thing was discussed thoroughly by the bbc commentator's as it happened and i remember it well. it was very unusual. next year should be interesting with the new tire manufacturer.



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post #12 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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That depends on what is the condition of an alleged bad tire.

With respect to pitting, everyone has a right to an opinion and it does not make one right or wrong, just an opinion.
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post #13 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 04:23 PM
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I don't think i said anyone was wrong. I just said it was unlikely and gave my reasons. you asked in your op for an explanation of ferraris move and i just gave you my take on why they did it. you postulate that webber's pit was a ruse to fool ferrari and hand the title to vettel. unlikely for many reasons. the most likely reason was it was his only choice. he wasn't getting around alonzo so he had to do something. a move that did him very well in other races. I agree with your original assertion that it was a bad move for ferrari in the end. i was just trying to explain that at the time it was a tough call. had the top three continued to degrade their tires at the same pace they would have probably come in too then it would have been a different race.



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post #14 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 04:27 PM
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you asked in your op for an explanation of ferraris move and i just gave you my take on why they did it. you postulate that webber's pit was a ruse to fool ferrari and hand the title to vettel. unlikely for many reasons. the most likely reason was it was his only choice. he wasn't getting around alonzo so he had to do something. a move that did him very well in other races. I agree with your original assertion that it was a bad move for ferrari in the end. i was just trying to explain that at the time it was a tough call. had the top three continued to degrade their tires at the same pace they would have probably come in too then it would have been a different race.

then there is alonzo's inability to get around petrov...... doubt dominicelli factored that into the stop.



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post #15 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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It was just a thought that crossed my mind (conspiracy theory thanks to whom?).

BTW - when webber came in, I was jumpin for joy knowing he was going to get stuck in traffic. Then alonzo came in and I was screaming "no" while the BBC was acting as if Ferrari just made the best move of the century. But what do I know as a member of the dark side?
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-17-2010, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtrman View Post
while the BBC was acting as if Ferrari just made the best move of the century. But what do I know as a member of the dark side?

The BBC crew are not exactly huge Ferrari fans. They seem to have a rather strong preference for McLaren.
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-20-2010, 12:14 AM
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The BBC crew are not exactly huge Ferrari fans. They seem to have a rather strong preference for McLaren.
Well most of them have worked for McLaren (Coulthard, Martin Brundle, and previously James Allen), so that is hardly surprising. James' Allen subjectivity was legendary, he didn't even try to hide his bias.


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post #18 of 21 Old 11-21-2010, 06:00 PM
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still the best f1 crew on the television if you ask me. i don't even watch the races live anymore so i can download the bbc show and watch it at my leisure.



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post #19 of 21 Old 11-21-2010, 10:14 PM
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still the best f1 crew on the television if you ask me. i don't even watch the races live anymore so i can download the bbc show and watch it at my leisure.
Agree
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post #20 of 21 Old 11-22-2010, 10:31 PM
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