Opinions Please - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Opinions Please

RM Auctions has several great looking Ferraris all in a similar price range in the October 27th Auction in London. Of the following, which would you prefer:

1966 Ferrari 365 California Spyder
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCar...arID=r192&fc=0

1965 Ferrari 275 GTB/6C Berlinetta
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=LF10&CarID=r219&fc=0

1965 Ferrari 500 Superfast
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=LF10&CarID=r198&fc=0

1965 Ferrari 275 GTB




1966 Ferrari 365 California Spyder
Chassis No.08347Estimate:£550,000-£680,000320 bhp, 4,390 cc single overhead camshaft V-12 engine, three Weber 40DFI dual choke downdraught carburettors, five-speed manual transmission, independent front suspension with coil springs, live axle rear suspension with coil springs, and four-wheel disc brakes. Wheelbase: 104.3"

- The prototype of only 14 examples built
- Completely original and in superb condition
- Ferrari Classiche certified and matching numbers
- 1966 Geneva Show car
- Known history with only four owners from new

Ferrari’s 365 California was, in so many ways, the culmination of Ferrari’s historically productive collaboration between sports car racing and customer road cars. Only 14 examples of the 365 California were built. They are almost invisible among the (relatively) boxcar loads of 275 GTBs and 365 GTB/4 Daytonas that Ferrari, along with Pininfarina and Scaglietti, turned out about the same time.

Not until Ferrari built the eight-cylinder 288 GTO in 1984, seventeen years in the future, would another low production, custom-built Ferrari cross Maranello’s threshold. Even today, forty years later, the 365 California is the high performance front-engined V-12 Ferrari from which today’s limited production specials take their inspiration – and a 550 Barchetta or 612 Scaglietti is commonplace compared with the fourteen 365 Californias built in 1966-67.

The 365 California was a hybrid made possible by the extraordinarily flexible combinations of its chassis, engines and drivetrains available at Ferrari. Pininfarina’s design imagination and low volume coachbuilding skills enabled Ferrari to create niche marvels that sold at breathtaking prices to a small cadre of well-heeled and discriminating clients. The 365 California established a standard of exclusivity that later Ferraris didn’t even try to meet. It was a low production, futuristically designed and styled visual masterpiece, and it had the chassis and drivetrain to back up its spaceship-like appearance. Ferrari never called it a “Spyder” or a “GT.” It is simply a “365 California” – an elegantly simple name.

The 365 California took its inspiration from Ferrari’s 365 P and 365 P2/3 prototypes, the organically beautiful, rounded, svelte mid-engined prototype racing counterparts sold to client teams and concessionaires in lieu of the factory’s 330 P, P3 and P3/4 endurance racing coupés. The 365 P series was little different from the 330 P other than in their 4.4-litre engines which were carburetted and less highly tuned than the Lucas fuel injected 4-litre 330 P series. The 365 and 330 Ps’ chassis and bodies were essentially identical, employing Pininfarina’s empirical understanding of aerodynamics in the ultimate expression of soft, rounded, organic shapes, resulting in the blossoming of cars that were as attractive as their performance.

Pininfarina’s coachwork took its cues from the mid-engined 330 P and 365 P prototypes, translating them successfully to the soft top, front-engine idiom of the 365 California. Some observers note the scooped-out rear fender brake ducts which contain the door handles as a precursor of the later Dinos but fail to see their presentation as a successor element of the 365 P and 330 P prototypes. The 365 California’s nose and tail translate almost directly from the 500 Superamerica, combining the classic Pininfarina oval air intake with egg crate grille and centred Cavallino Rampante, individual front bumpers flanking the air intake and seductively-shaped rear deck with cut-off Kamm tail.

Chassis 08347

Of the 14 365 California Spyders built, this particular example, chassis 08347, has the distinction of being the prototype example, the first car built and the one that was displayed on the Pininfarina stand at the annual Geneva Motor Show at the Plainpalais from 10th to 20th March, 1966.

Chassis 08347 entered the Pininfarina plant just two months earlier on 27th January, and was originally fitted with flat taillights, which were later modified to the standard three round lights, as seen on the other Californias. It was also equipped with ancillary pop-up driving lights next to the standard pop-up lights, which it retains to this day. Following completion, the car was factory tested on “Prova” plates “MO 49.” It was quite the celebrity for the remainder of the year, first appearing at Geneva and then being pictured in the official Ferrari brochure before being delivered on 26th July to its first owner, Dino Fabbri, a publisher who resided in Milan.

Mr. Fabbri founded the publishing house Fratelli Fabbri Editori in 1947 with his brothers Giovanni and Ettore “Rino.” The Fabbri brothers, born into a family of merchants, found success quite quickly publishing text books for schools. The 1960s were particularly successful as they not only branched out into multimedia products but also published Conoscere, an illustrated children’s encyclopedia that was purchased by millions of homes, not only in Italy but internationally in over 10 other languages.

Dino, along with Rino, sold his shares in the company toward the end of the decade. He eventually relocated overseas in the 1970s and ultimately passed away in Florida. It’s clear, however, that the car remained in Italy throughout this time. The rear bumpers were replaced at some point, and the chrome script “California” was added to the trunk lid. Although the car had been delivered in Azzurro metallizzato with a black and white cloth interior, the car was repainted dark blue with a new buckskin interior. This is the way the car is presented today, and it has been left unrestored and unmolested in this striking colour combination.

On 17th April, 1980, Mr. Fabbri sold his 365 California to the second owner Domenico Dalia of Reggio Emilia, Italy, who registered the car on “RE 360749.” Dalia was quite the enthusiast and first participated with the car in the Raid Ferrari D’Epoca in Modena the following year and the Ferrari Days meeting in 1983.

Mr. Dalia didn’t own the car as long as its first owner, however, as he finally sold the car to its third owner Ennio Gianaroli of Belgium in 1984. Gianaroli was quite active with the car as well, participating in the Rallye du Champagne in Reime, France (1984) and at the F40 meeting in Brussels and Spa-Francorchamps (1992). Two years later he drove the car during the Club Ferrari France meeting “Les Cabriolets au Mas du Clos.”

In 2001, after 17 years of ownership, Mr. Gianaroli sold the car to its current owner. A successful businessman and avid, well known collector of Ferraris, he has preserved the car’s originality and left it just as it was in the ownership of Mr. Fabbri years earlier; it is still finished in dark blue with a buckskin interior, which remains in extraordinary condition.

A matching-numbers car with known history from new, it has been Ferrari Certified and is unquestionably one of the finest examples of the limited few 365 California Spyders built. Still in pristine condition, this is one of Ferrari’s rarest coachbuilt road cars. With its competition derived 320 horsepower 4.4-litre engine and gorgeous Pininfarina body, it would be welcome to all the great Ferrari events around the world and, given its rarity and prototype status, is certainly worthy of close consideration.

1965 Ferrari 275 GTB/6C Berlinetta
Chassis No.07699Estimate:£475,000-£575,000300 bhp, 3,286 cc Tipo 213 overhead camshaft V-12 engine, six Weber carburettors, Tipo 563/1015 five-speed manual gearbox in rear-mounted transaxle, Tipo 563 chassis, four-wheel independent suspension with A-arms, coil springs and telescopic shock absorbers, and four-wheel hydraulic disc brakes. Wheelbase: 94.5"

- An original six-carburettor example, delivered new to South Africa
- Matching numbers
- Fully sorted and in outstanding condition
- Iconic Pininfarina styling, Scaglietti-crafted body

In many ways, the Ferrari 275 GTB is often lauded by enthusiasts and the media as the last of the “classic Ferraris.” Conceived and executed under the guidance of Enzo Ferrari himself, the 275 GTB was introduced at the 1964 Paris Auto Show and marked a natural evolution from its immediate predecessors, the 250 GT SWB Berlinetta and Lusso. It was also by far the most advanced road-going Ferrari produced at the time of its introduction, and it served as a production test-bed for several notable engineering advances.

Designed by Pininfarina and executed by Scaglietti, the 275 GTB was an especially organic but aggressive and purposeful design. Named number three on Motor Trend's list of the 10 greatest Ferraris of all time, many enthusiasts have been drawn to its instantly recognisable looks alone, before opening its hood or even settling into the driver's seat.

The 275 was considered by many to have been the finest production Ferrari ever built, combining the strong pedigree of its legendary road-racing forebears with sufficient creature comforts and a new fully-independent rear suspension to produce a superlative high-speed, long-range GT car. The engine was based on the race-proven Colombo-derived V-12, now displacing 3,286 cc to produce 280 bhp with the standard triple Weber carburettor setup and 300 bhp with the optional and desirable set of six Weber 40 DNC/3 dual-choke carburettors.

With its sensuous lines, covered headlights, long hood, short rear deck, neat Kamm tail, abbreviated bumpers, low oval air intake, “egg crate” grille and limited brightwork highlighting the 275 GTB’s purposeful design, it literally suffers from no “bad angle.” In particular, its long, slim nose and four side-ventilation louvers per side gave it a shark-like appearance, a theme that could also describe its ample performance.

With the final evolution of Ferrari's relatively small-displacement Colombo V-12 under its hood, the 275 GTB was an extraordinarily rev-happy machine, even by Ferrari standards. In a period road test, legendary Hollywood star and automobile enthusiast Steve McQueen described the smooth action of the five-speed manual transaxle as “like sliding a knife through butter.” It helped get the most out of the Colombo's enlarged 3,286 cc displacement. Weighing merely 1,200 kg, the 275 GTB easily accelerated from rest to 60 mph in a scant 6.3 seconds.

Today’s collectors divide the 275 GTBs into the early (short-nose) and late-production (long-nose) cars. As with many things Ferrari, the reality is not so simple. While high-volume carmakers produced endless quantities of nearly identical cars, Ferraris were still built, to an astonishing degree, by hand. As improvements were devised, they were incorporated into production, often with the very next car in the production sequence. In other cases, features from earlier production would appear on later cars, to the delight of their owners and to the consternation of Ferrari historians and marque experts. The changeover to a longer-nose body design, which was introduced at the 1965 Paris Salon with production beginning in early 1966, was the result of the alarming incidence of frontal lift at high speeds caused by the short-nose setup.

Chassis 07699, the 275 GTB/6C offered here, was completed on 30th July, 1965 and finished in the understated and stylish combination of Grigio Fumo (code 106 E8) with a black leather interior and red carpets, a black Nardi steering wheel and black leather-covered dash complementing the well-appointed interior. Concealed under the bonnet were six big downdraught Weber carburettors to give this 275 that all-important performance advantage on the highly competitive Club racing circuit of the mid 1960s for which it was destined.

This particular 275 GTB/6C was delivered to T.A.K Motors in South Africa in August 1965 and sold to its first owner, stockbroker and racing enthusiast Hugh McNeil, to race in Club events. The following year, obviously impressed by the new long-nose variant of the 275 GTB that was now available, McNeil appointed the Ferrari main agent in Cape Town to have the undamaged short-nose removed and a new, factory-supplied long-nose fitted to his car. The work was carried out by noted, imported, Italian coachbuilder Pierino Scalco, who had also worked on a number of other highly important racing Ferraris, including a 250 GTO and a P3 racing prototype. A photograph of the work-in-progress taken from the Southern Equatorial Ferrari Automobili Club (SEFAC) magazine is included in the file.

It is understood that the car then passed through the hands of a Mr. A. Watson before being sold to noted South African racing driver G.J. Van Zyl of Cape Town, who continued to have the car looked after by the Viglietti brothers in Cape Town. Included in the file on this car are bills for a full engine rebuild by Viglietti Motors, on behalf of Van Zyl in 1982, with all replacement original Ferrari parts coming from Graypaul in Loughborough, England.

In 1986, well-known Ferrari expert David Cottingham of DK Engineering purchased the car and then sold it to English collector Tom Walduck, who had the car imported to the UK and used it for many years. Cottingham had clearly taken a liking to this car, as he bought it back via Paradise Garage in 1999. Cottingham had obviously decided that he wanted to enjoy the car for his own personal use and had FIA papers issued and all of the front suspension and steering components crack tested prior to participating in numerous events, including the 2001 South African Western Province Motor Club race meeting, the 2001 Tour España and the 2004 275 Factory Tour. During this period, the car was finished in red with white and blue racing stripes, and many photos of David’s exploits are included in the file.

The present owner, a well-respected English collector and racing enthusiast, has now had the car repainted in its original factory colour of Grigio Fumo and has spared no expense in ensuring that the car presents and drives beautifully.

This 275 GTB Ferrari has the highly desirable factory specification of six carbs, the all-important matching-number mechanicals, period-fitted long nose for better stability at high speed, period racing history, has never crashed, and has had the benefit of being properly looked after and, most importantly, sorted for fast road use by one of the leading Ferrari experts in the business to use as his personal road/rally car. Bidders should also note that a number of spares, including the original 14-inch wheels, are to be included in the sale.

1965 Ferrari 500 Superfast
Chassis No.6661SFEstimate:£500,000-£580,000400 bhp, 4,962 cc single overhead camshaft V-12 engine, five-speed manual gearbox, independent front suspension with A-arms and coil springs, live rear axle with semi-elliptical leaf springs, four-wheel Dunlop disc brakes. Wheelbase: 104.3"

- One of only eight Superfasts built in right-hand drive
- Matching numbers and long-term current ownership
- Very late Series I example with five-speed transmission
- Fully restored by Terry Hoyle with service by Bob Houghton

In its day, the 500 Superfast was the undisputed pinnacle in Ferrari ownership. At a time when a 275 GTB’s V-12 produced about 300 hp, the 500 Superfast’s 4.9-litre V-12 put out a full 400 hp, was capable of exceeding 170 mph and was produced in miniscule, ultra-exclusive numbers. The list of owners was the usual who’s who of Ferrari’s elite clientele: Principe Sadhruddin Aga Khan, Peter Livanos (later to own Aston Martin), Georges Filipinetti, the Shah of Iran and Peter Sellers, to name a few.

The 500 Superfast was a supercar in the truest modern sense of the word – impossibly powerful, beautiful and unbelievably expensive yet perfectly suited to high speed continental trips in true GT fashion. Introduced at Geneva in 1964 and designed and built by Pininfarina, the 500 Superfast was built in a limited run of only 36 cars. It was a logical evolution not only of the 410/400 Superamerica but also the one-off “Superfast” styling/engineering executed by Ferrari in previous years. Its Type 208 V-12 was unique to this model with the bore-and-stroke dimensions of the Lampredi V-12, but its construction with detachable cylinder heads was more akin to the Colombo motor.

Enthusiasts typically divide the car’s production run into two series, the first having 24 cars and the second 12. Generally speaking, the difference with Series II examples is the five-speed gearbox, suspended pedals, Borg and Beck clutches, power steering and other features, but as with all things Ferrari, the distinctions are not as cut and dry.

The stunning 500 Superfast offered here, chassis 6661 SF, is now finished in elegant dark metallic blue (it left the factory painted Blu Chiaro 19343 M) with a beige Connolly leather interior (VM 3309), and not only does it retain its original, matching-numbers engine, but it also has the distinction of being one of only eight 500 Superfasts built in right-hand drive. A very late Series I example, it is factory-equipped with the desirable five-speed transmission (a “Series II” improvement) and was delivered new without rear seats, three air ducts and circular Carello turn signals.

Chassis 6661 SF was ordered from Colonel Ronnie Hoare, Maranello Concessionaires via Coombs and Sons on behalf of their client, the banker Jack Durlacher, resident in London and Sevenoaks. According to the fascinating file of original correspondence (supplied with the car), it appears that there were some delays with the bodies being supplied by the factory, as evidenced by an apologetic letter from Colonel Hoare to John Coombs, which states, “the Commendatore is personally progressing this order.” Once the car was finally delivered, Mr. Durlacher and Coombs and Sons were dissatisfied with the finish on the £11 500 car and therefore placed an order for another Superfast (chassis 8459 SF).

Chassis 6661 was therefore sold to Broadway Autos in Cricklewood who found a new owner, the Greek shipping tycoon Mr. George Tsakiroglou. While in Mr. Tsakiroglou’s ownership, new valve guides and a new rear axle were ordered from the Ferrari factory and fitted to the car in 1966. The car was even featured in the magazine Drive and, by the late 1960s, was owned by Ivan W. Halbert of Bristol. It subsequently changed hands twice more through two known London-based owners, including well-known racing driver Richard Attwood, and by 1980 had acquired 41,000 original miles.

In the 1980s, it was owned by A.J.M. Van der Lof of Holland and changed ownership in England before being fully restored by marque specialist Terry Hoyle in the late 1980s. The car was finally acquired by the current long-term owner in 1993. A devoted racing and sports car enthusiast, she has had the car maintained and serviced by Ferrari authority Bob Houghton with recent work including a top-end engine overhaul and full service.

The offering of a 500 Superfast of this calibre is a rare occurrence indeed and a unique opportunity for the true connoisseur. These cars are rarely brought to auction, and they were and remain one of Ferrari’s finest Gran Turismos. Chassis 6661 SF combines all the elements of desirability tifosi look for – a specialist restoration, superb colour combination and a matching-numbers original engine with a five-speed transmission. In the realm of ultra-exclusive Ferrari ownership, the 500 Superfast stands virtually alone as the company’s crowning achievement in Gran Turismo production.





1965 Ferrari 275 GTB
Chassis No.07743Estimate:£500,000-£600,000280 bhp, 3,286 cc overhead cam V-12 engine with triple 40DCZ6 Weber carburettors, five-speed manual rear-mounted transaxle, four-wheel upper and lower wishbone coil spring independent suspension, four-wheel disc brakes and tubular steel frame. Wheelbase: 94.5"

- 1965 Frankfurt International Motor Show Car
- Matching numbers, fresh MoT
- Completely restored and in exceptional condition
- Original short-nose, left-hand drive configuration
- Highly attractive original colour combination

By the mid 1960s it seemed Ferrari could do no wrong, winning on all fronts from sports car racing to Grands Prix. Ferrari’s dual purpose cars seemed equally unstoppable as the legendary 250 GT LWB “Tour de France” gave way to the marvellous 250 GT SWB Berlinetta – and led ultimately to the awe-inspiring 250 GTO in 1962.

Introduced in 1964, the new 275 GTB gave Ferrari a chance to incorporate all the best characteristics of this fabled bloodline. Many consider the resulting car to be the finest production Ferrari ever built, combining the thoroughbred mechanical pedigree of its road racing forebears with sufficient creature comforts to make the 275 GTB a superlative grand touring automobile.

Under the skin, the 275 GTB incorporated the best Ferrari chassis design, starting with the oval section tube backbone chassis. Front suspension was the traditional upper and lower wishbone design, but the rear incorporated a brand new fully independent suspension with a rear-mounted transaxle – leading edge design, even for Ferrari.

The engine was based on Ferrari’s race-proven Colombo overhead cam V-12, but a bore increase to 77 mm lifted horsepower to 280 with the standard three-carb Weber setup. Torque was improved too, giving the car better acceleration from a standing start.

The coachwork was all new, a stunning Pininfarina design that evoked the graceful lines of the legendary 250 GTO. A long hood combined with a fastback rear body created a striking profile, while vents in the front fenders gave the car a muscular edge. Vents in the sail panels added to the effect and paid tribute to the 250 GT “Tour de France” Berlinettas. A smoothly integrated rear spoiler, also clearly borrowed from the GTO, helped give the car a strong visual identity.

Although the 275 GTB was a car of many firsts, it was also the last car that could be considered a true coachbuilt road/race berlinetta in the great Ferrari tradition. Although most lived their lives on the streets, many led a dual life, winning on road courses and hill climbs on the weekend while providing stylish and exciting transportation during the week. For this reason, demand from the public was strong, and Ferrari importers worldwide were readily eager to get their hands on as many examples as could be made available to them.

After a handshake agreement between Il Commendatore Enzo Ferrari and Wilhelm Becker, Auto Becker of Dusseldorf officially became the Ferrari Importer for Germany in 1957. After having been destined originally for Zurich, Switzerland, the car on offer was sent to Auto Becker and was used for their display at the 42nd Frankfurt International Motor Show of 1965. It was delivered in short-nose configuration and finished in Azzuro (blue) with Nero (black) interior. Sometime following the September show, 07743 was sent overseas to the United States and wound up on the west coast of California. While there, the front was modified to long-nose configuration. As was the case with many of these early versions, modifications were often made to lengthen the nose which was intended to improve aerodynamics at very high speeds. Despite this, many modern enthusiasts prefer the original Pininfarina design short-nose design.

The next known owner of this car was George A. Shukov, who kept it from 1976 before finally selling it back to German buyer Armin Fuchs in 1979. Fuchs resided in a small town called Montabaur located between Frankfurt and Dusseldorf and in 1980 had the car imported back to Germany. He kept 07743 for the better part of a decade, and in 1990 Mr. Holberg bought the car and brought it to the neighbouring town of Wuppertal only about 100 kms away. He used the car regularly, but decided to sell it three years later through Modena Motorsport to Peter M. Fandel. At this time, they began a complete restoration on behalf of Mr. Fandel. Following completion, the car was registered on custom German license plates, BIT F 275! 07743 passed through several other hands and in 1999 was sold to well-known collector and Polish railway baron Jaroslaw Pawluk. He used the car sparingly for several years and in 2008 commissioned Dutch-based restoration firm, Hietbrink Coachbuilding, to completely restore the car back to the original specifications, including short-nose configuration and original paint schemes.
The current owner reports that this car remains in spectacular condition and has been used very little since its restoration in 2008. With slight hints of metallic flake and a light blue hue, the paint scheme that this car was originally delivered with is considered by many to be one of the prettiest and certainly most tasteful colours for these early 275 models. Coupled with light grey leather seats, centre console, dash and door sills, the complementary dark grey carpets give this car an absolutely stunning overall appearance.

Having just been freshly rebuilt, 07743 comes complete with its matching engine and is fitted with three correct 40 Weber DCZ6 carburettors, a full set of tools and correct Borrani wire wheels. Following a recent road test, the vendor reports that the car starts and shifts with ease and has very good power through all gears, and the steering is tight with no rattles or shakes at high speeds. A very comprehensive restoration file is included with the sale of this car, which attests to its high level of restoration. A full dossier of restoration photographs are included as well.

For those who are unacquainted with the 275 GTB, suffice to say that it is an absolute pleasure to own and drive. Not only is it the ultimate touring car, but its design borders on perfection. In a road test published in 1967, French racing driver, Jean-Pierre Beltoise in L’Auto Journal said of the 275 GTB, “I covered in complete safety and the greatest comfort…and while carrying on a normal conversation with my passenger, the 46 miles which separate the Pont d’Orléans from Nemours in a little less than 23 minutes…at an average speed of more than 121 mph – which is remarkable enough without noting that I had to stop for the toll gates.”

And that, in the final analysis, is what makes the 275 GTB one of the greatest Ferraris ever built: a sophisticated, powerful, competent high performance berlinetta that looks as good as it runs.

Last edited by Boxer; 10-26-2010 at 12:45 AM.
Boxer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 12:05 AM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
Just my 2cents:

275 GTB (although not nice history sheet but well restored)
over
275 GTB/6C
over
500 Superfast
over
365 California
212Export is offline  
post #3 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
Just my 2cents:

275 GTB (although not nice history sheet but well restored)
over
275 GTB/6C
over
500 Superfast
over
365 California
You have surprised me, I would have guessed that you would have put the 275 GTB/6C first
Boxer is offline  
 
post #4 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 01:38 AM
Owner
 
JazzyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,397
Having read the descriptions, none of these cars quite do it for me.

In theory, I would prefer a 275 GTB/6C. I agree with 212export that between these examples the 275GTB is nicer (and also LHD). Even so, I have seen better 275GTB's and I would prefer to wait for just the right example if I was spending this sort of money. The idea, for me, is to get a car for life and that means you have to get the right one.


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
JazzyO is offline  
post #5 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 01:54 AM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
I agree Onno. But as I understood, Boxers question was to choose between the 4 offered, not the one's which would be better but are maybe offered elsewhere.
Personally I would not like to have a car changed from short - to longnose .....and back again.

Is any of you attending this RM London auction ?
212Export is offline  
post #6 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 01:56 AM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
You have surprised me, I would have guessed that you would have put the 275 GTB/6C first
Yes, normally I would. But the LHD and restoration argument in this case would weight towards the short nose. (Besides, I had always that soft side towards the light blue metallic)
212Export is offline  
post #7 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,337
I take the exact opposite stance as 212:

1) 365 California
I'm a rag top man and that has the quintisential 60s look inside and out
2) 500 Superfast
ditto
3) 275 GTB/6C
this one just looks all business

and the 275 GTB a distant 4th.
Killer58 is offline  
post #8 of 43 Old 10-24-2010, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
I take the exact opposite stance as 212:

1) 365 California
I'm a rag top man and that has the quintisential 60s look inside and out
2) 500 Superfast
ditto
3) 275 GTB/6C
this one just looks all business

and the 275 GTB a distant 4th.
+1 on the 365 California. Wiht only 14 built, quite a unique car.
Boxer is offline  
post #9 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 06:20 AM
Owner
 
redtrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Great Falls, VA
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,154
1. 275 6c
2. 365 cali
3. 275
4. 500 sf
redtrman is offline  
post #10 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Having read all the descriptions again and looked through the pictures on the RM site, have to admit, the 275 GTB shortnose is the one I would pick now.
Boxer is offline  
post #11 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 05:30 PM
Owner
 
barcheta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
I take the exact opposite stance as 212:

1) 365 California
I'm a rag top man and that has the quintisential 60s look inside and out
2) 500 Superfast
ditto
3) 275 GTB/6C
this one just looks all business

and the 275 GTB a distant 4th.

Exactly the order I would pick. The 365 California looks like nothing else. Beautiful.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
barcheta is offline  
post #12 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Magnum6464's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Quebexico, Canada
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,990
Hey Boxer,

Well, I have been reading this post for a few days now, and I have been trying to figure out what to write.

Since the price of these cars is something hard to comprehend for me because they are almost 15 times or more the price of my Ferrari, it’s hard for me to say something useful when I will probably never see one let alone drive one and in the extreme, could ever afford buying one. I think it’s extremely cool to be able to give an opinion on a car of this magnitude.

I only have looks to go by so I think the 1965 275 GTB is simply an amazing body design. I did see Victory by Design and Alain de Cadenet really loved it and when I heard it through my surround sound home theater, it took my breath away.

My experience in vintage Ferrari’s is next to none but look wise and pure awesomeness to me is the 1965 275 GTB. So this is all I got……sorry for the short uneducated opinion.



~

Mario

1990 348 TS (87284)

“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari
Magnum6464 is offline  
post #13 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 09:30 PM
Owner
 
JazzyO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum6464 View Post
I only have looks to go by so I think the 1965 275 GTB is simply an amazing body design. I did see Victory by Design and Alain de Cadenet really loved it and when I heard it through my surround sound home theater, it took my breath away.
Without doubt, the best DVD on Ferrari ever produced. Beautiful production, wonderful sound, and boy is Alain knowledgeable (well he should be as a former 250GTO, 250SWB and 275GTB owner). I watch it often and always need a bucket for the drool.

Not all vintage Ferraris are that expensive to buy, although $1 million is sort of the mid-way point separating the men from the boys. What I have found, in 15 months of vintage ownership, is that for the boys' cars ($100k - $1 mil) you're still paying the millionaire's club maintenance and restoration costs. It is a very different league to owning a modern Ferrari and you have to be made of stern stuff. If you buy the wrong car, it's easy to be $100k out of pocket to get it right. Really. If you buy the right one, you still get regular $10k bills (if you drive it reasonable mileage, expect one every 2 years). Particularly if you want to use it but still want it to look spectacular. I find I spend quite a bit of money on stone chip repairs and other upkeep. Exhausts are a typical issue: very expensive and very fragile, if you want to keep it original.


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
JazzyO is offline  
post #14 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
Not all vintage Ferraris are that expensive to buy, although $1 million is sort of the mid-way point separating the men from the boys. What I have found, in 15 months of vintage ownership, is that for the boys' cars ($100k - $1 mil) you're still paying the millionaire's club maintenance and restoration costs. It is a very different league to owning a modern Ferrari and you have to be made of stern stuff. If you buy the wrong car, it's easy to be $100k out of pocket to get it right. Really. If you buy the right one, you still get regular $10k bills (if you drive it reasonable mileage, expect one every 2 years). Particularly if you want to use it but still want it to look spectacular. I find I spend quite a bit of money on stone chip repairs and other upkeep. Exhausts are a typical issue: very expensive and very fragile, if you want to keep it original.
Onno
Really good post and points. The cost of restoring and running a 250 GTE and a 275 GTB are about the same. However as a percentage of value, it is a huge difference. I would like to get back into Vintage ownership in the not to distant future but first need to get more comfortable with some of the math.

That having been said, I have always had a real soft spot for the 275 GTB and 275 GTS.
Boxer is offline  
post #15 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 11:13 PM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
@JazzyO: I even would say that restoring a 250 GTE is more expensive than a 275 GTB because of lack of parts and less interest out there in the community to restore them but rather strip them to parts and sell the parts more expensive as so badly happened thru the last years.
Although restoring a 275 is probably easier as many professional restorers have "created" their own mechanical parts to replace old and (racing) worned 275 parts. Historic competition helped a lot to create a "new" market for such (now) available parts and therefore some competition between restorers. (although not to much imo)
212Export is offline  
post #16 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 11:21 PM
Owner
 
212Export's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,996
Sorry, previous post ment to be directed to Boxer.

One way to keep restoring costs down is the "do it yourself" approach. Yes, you need to be knowledgable (I could not do it personally) but the savings advantage could be huge. Thats probably why you will find a lot of tremendeuos knowledgeable enthusiasts out there in the 250 GTE and 330 GT 2+2 community. For many it would not be possible to keep their wonderful cars if they needed to commission professional restorers. So they learn to do it by themself, have a great learning curve and knowledge base by doing it and, imo, are the much bigger enthusiasts by developing a enthusiastic long term ownership experience to their car(s).

I believe that this explains also the tremendeous success of phantastic websides like the one from tom yang.
212Export is offline  
post #17 of 43 Old 10-26-2010, 04:40 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
For many it would not be possible to keep their wonderful cars if they needed to commission professional restorers.
Exactly. I have restored two Jaguars, a MKII and a 150S Roadster. I did everything from rebuilding the motors to crafting the leather interiors. The only thing I outsourced was balancing the crank and paint. By my calculations, I "saved" 50% of the cost of a professional restoration. I could not have afforded either had I used a restoration shop. A vintage Ferrari is in a whole other league and an order of magnitude more expensive.

But DIY route, like being able to afford a professional restoration, let alone a $10K repair bill, is not for everyone either.

Boxer hit the nail on the head; no matter which route you choose, in the end the math has to work!
Killer58 is offline  
post #18 of 43 Old 10-26-2010, 08:37 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
wetpet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chevy Chase, Md
Ferrari Life Posts: 9,567
I think the zonda R would suit your collection best. in fact, i would love it!



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
wetpet is offline  
post #19 of 43 Old 10-26-2010, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
I think the zonda R would suit your collection best. in fact, i would love it!
For that $$$ I would much rather have a MC12 and some spare change.
Boxer is offline  
post #20 of 43 Old 10-26-2010, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
Sorry, previous post ment to be directed to Boxer.

One way to keep restoring costs down is the "do it yourself" approach. Yes, you need to be knowledgable (I could not do it personally) but the savings advantage could be huge. Thats probably why you will find a lot of tremendeuos knowledgeable enthusiasts out there in the 250 GTE and 330 GT 2+2 community. For many it would not be possible to keep their wonderful cars if they needed to commission professional restorers. So they learn to do it by themself, have a great learning curve and knowledge base by doing it and, imo, are the much bigger enthusiasts by developing a enthusiastic long term ownership experience to their car(s).

I believe that this explains also the tremendeous success of phantastic websides like the one from tom yang.
Unfortunately if I went the do-it-yourself route it would only increase the total costs given the amount of extra work that would then be required to repair the damage.
Boxer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale