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post #1 of 16 Old 03-28-2010, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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shift times

I've been researching the following question, and have received various answers, so I'm hoping someone can tell me.

Are the shift times slower in the standard F430, as apposed to the Scuderia version? I know the Scuderia is lighter and more powerful, but not sure about the shift times. Let's assume both cars in Race or Sport mode ...

Thanks, appreciate it.
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post #2 of 16 Old 03-29-2010, 01:31 AM
 
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The standard F430 with an F1 gearbox changes gears in 150 milliseconds, where as the Scuderia has the new technology of the F1-Superfast2 gearbox which allows for shift times of 60 milliseconds.
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post #3 of 16 Old 03-29-2010, 02:53 AM
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575F1 250ms, Challenge Stradale 150ms, and standard 599GTB 100ms. 599GTO will be 60ms.


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post #4 of 16 Old 03-29-2010, 04:18 AM
 
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Not sure what F1 software management system the 575 has but I know the F430 has the SoFast3 which allowed for 150ms changes, so did the 360CS have the same software to achieve it's 150ms change?

The 599 has the SuperFast software in it which allowed for the 100ms changes. The Scuderia has the SuperFast2 software, so would it be right in assuming the 599GTO is using the same software that allows these beauties to shift gears in 60ms?

Now the 458 Italia's gear shifting time is essentially zero and there is no interruption in power sent to the wheels, thanks to what has been called the greatest F1 dual-clutch gearbox on the planet.
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post #5 of 16 Old 03-29-2010, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone for your replies. This helped.
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post #6 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike430 View Post

Now the 458 Italia's gear shifting time is essentially zero and there is no interruption in power sent to the wheels, thanks to what has been called the greatest F1 dual-clutch gearbox on the planet.
Speed depends on the requirement.
In my 16M, I regularly for road driving drop 2-3 gears for an instant overtake when the situation presents. SF2 with non sequential gear box does this complete change in 60ms. Try this in a DSG and the process is slow and laboured in comparison.

Interesting review of the new 911 Gt3 with it's new DSG only gearbox, Porsche claim it is the fastest DSG available and the first to break 100ms. 100ms?
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post #7 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 11:50 AM
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Russell- Yup, that was broken years ago. Here is the minimum shift time list I have for dry plate clutch F1 times in more or less order of production. The approximate signs are for those systems Ferrari noted only that the time improved by some indefintite number. Some sources say the 599 HGTE min shift time was 85 ms, others say the time was improved by 20 ms, so who knows?

F355: 250 ms
360: 150 ms
575M: 220 ms
Challenge Stradale: 150 ms
612: 180 ms
575M HGTC: 180 ms
F430: 150 ms
612 HGTS/HGTC: ~160 ms
599: 100 ms
612 Sessanta/OTO: 100 ms
612 OTO HGT2: ~80-85 ms
Scuderia/16M: 60 ms
599 HGTE: ~80-85 ms
599 GTO: 60 ms

The shift times for the DCT systems are more complicated, so I will leave that to others

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post #8 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 12:24 PM
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times..

does it really make a bit of difference ? lol
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post #9 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 12:59 PM
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Of course it does. All that trivia is half the fun, like baseball statistics.

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post #10 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 01:29 PM
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Does any other car produce the Scud thud?

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post #11 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 02:19 PM
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Doug- GTOs, HGTE 599s and HGT2 OTOs.

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post #12 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Russell- Yup, that was broken years ago. Here is the minimum shift time list I have for dry plate clutch F1 times in more or less order of production. The approximate signs are for those systems Ferrari noted only that the time improved by some indefintite number. Some sources say the 599 HGTE min shift time was 85 ms, others say the time was improved by 20 ms, so who knows?

F355: 250 ms
360: 150 ms
575M: 220 ms
Challenge Stradale: 150 ms
612: 180 ms
575M HGTC: 180 ms
F430: 150 ms
612 HGTS/HGTC: ~160 ms
599: 100 ms
612 Sessanta/OTO: 100 ms
612 OTO HGT2: ~80-85 ms
Scuderia/16M: 60 ms
599 HGTE: ~80-85 ms
599 GTO: 60 ms

The shift times for the DCT systems are more complicated, so I will leave that to others
Single clutch speeds are well documented, my point was than I've read many times people stating DCT is faster than the fastest single clutch, it would seem if Porsche is to be believed that this wasn't correct and that the fastest DCT is nearly twice as slow as the fastest single clutch.
So DCT is heavy and slow but needs less maintenance! Two steps back and one step forward.

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post #13 of 16 Old 03-30-2013, 09:49 PM
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Russell- If you are progressing up through the gears using a high F1 mode and high revs, the Ferrari DCT is faster than even the Scud/GTO system. Same for a sequence of downshifts. In other cases, no idea what speed you will get. On interrupted shift sequences, where you are going up and then down the gearbox or vice-versa, the DCT will be considerably slower than the dry clutch F1 systems.

The system works a lot like one of the old Wilson pre-selector transmissions fitted to many UK sports cars. Preselect the correct gear and it is very fast. Change the preselect, and things are slowed considerably. At least on the Wilson system, both the car and the driver knew what their intentions were, because the driver preselected the next gear, not the transmission.

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post #14 of 16 Old 03-31-2013, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Russell- If you are progressing up through the gears using a high F1 mode and high revs, the Ferrari DCT is faster than even the Scud/GTO system. Same for a sequence of downshifts. In other cases, no idea what speed you will get. On interrupted shift sequences, where you are going up and then down the gearbox or vice-versa, the DCT will be considerably slower than the dry clutch F1 systems.

The system works a lot like one of the old Wilson pre-selector transmissions fitted to many UK sports cars. Preselect the correct gear and it is very fast. Change the preselect, and things are slowed considerably. At least on the Wilson system, both the car and the driver knew what their intentions were, because the driver preselected the next gear, not the transmission.
Taz, so what do you think Porsche are referring to as their new system being the first DCT to break 100ms. Having done a quick internet search it does appear as if the DCT in the California is rated at 100+ms even in fastest sequential mode (info from Graziano). This also suggests Ferrari have shifted from Getrag to Graziano for the California DCT?
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-31-2013, 07:57 AM
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Ferrari quote shift times of just 20ms for the California 30 gearbox Russell, I believe it's same for FF & now F12 too...

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post #16 of 16 Old 03-31-2013, 10:35 AM
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Russell- No idea what Porsche is talking about. The number bandied about on the early Ferrari DCT systems is 40 ms minimum.

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