Ferrari Investment Portfolio? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 30 Old 02-03-2010, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Ferrari Investment Portfolio?

Hi F-lifers,
Many of you are very familiar with the collector car market, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this question. Let's say you decided to take the money you'd spend on a new 458 and put it into investment-grade Ferrari(s). Further, let's say you ignored personal preference and focused solely on expected ROI over the next 10 years. What would you buy? A Daytona? A 512M and 512BBi? A 365 GTC/4 and a 550 Barchetta?

So many choices!

Thanks!
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post #2 of 30 Old 02-03-2010, 11:16 PM
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Three from a purely investment standpoint:

333 SP
F50
365 GT4 BB
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-03-2010, 11:20 PM
 
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edit: annnd Boxer beats me to the chase with solid advice. Curses!! :[

Personally, if I had the money to try and run ROI deals on automobiles, I would take it and put it into real estate right now (especially in this economy).

Some others might be able to give you more helpful advice on buying Ferrari's for investment, but I have a hard time in general seeing an automobile (that isn't a recently produced Halo car) being a worthwhile monetary investment.

But then, what the heck do I know?
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post #4 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:03 AM
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For 458 money you don't have that many choices. I think the 330GTC and the 365GT/4 BB would be decent options (not that I'm biased ). I don't think of my cars as investments, but it is important for me not to lose more money than is necessary.

Personally, I think both the BB and the GTC will see a decent increase over the coming years. The 330GTC is a great driver's car and it shares many components with more illustrious sisters. It's pretty too, and a decent entry into the Ferrari Vintage market. So I think they'll be in good demand in years to come, with decent ones fairly hard to find.

The BB has been undervalued for years and I think with the '70ies hip again it will see more understanding of and appreciation for the concept. Ferrari Classiche seems to think that they will outperform Daytonas in the coming years. We'll see, but there seems to be a concensus that they are on the up.

On thing to remember w.r.t. cars being investments: there are a LOT of costs involved, that you need to take into account when calculating your return, if seeing it as a TRUE investment. The money I'm spending on my Boxer means that I need more than double the price I paid for the car to see a return... So my Boxer won't count as a decent investment any time soon.

Another example: my 330GTC was restored in 1990. I bought the car last year for about the cost of restoration + purchase price of the car. So the owner didn't get a return, he lost money if we consider inflation, even though I paid above prevailing market price because it was such a good example. But he didn't lose much, and he had fun.


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post #5 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdkhopkar View Post
Hi F-lifers,
Let's say you decided to take the money you'd spend on a new 458 and put it into investment-grade Ferrari(s). Further, let's say you ignored personal preference and focused solely on expected ROI over the next 10 years. What would you buy?
Thanks!
To not answer your question, I would put personal preference first with ROI as a bonus. ROI would only come into it explicitly if I needed to persuade wife/control tower or for man maths for self to justify buying it.

For the price of a new 458 I would either order a new 458 exactly to suit personal preferences, collect from the factory and then never sell it. Or instead I would go for a Daytona with possibly some change left over for a 308 GTB. Either way I would be pretty thrilled.
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post #6 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:37 AM
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I've been offered a test drive in the 458 in Hilversum, David, when I'm back in 6 weeks or so I plan to take them up on it. You should come along.


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post #7 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
I've been offered a test drive in the 458 in Hilversum, David, when I'm back in 6 weeks or so I plan to take them up on it. You should come along.


Onno
Thanks Onno, count me in!
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post #8 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 03:23 AM
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I agree with AlexbroPA. I think Real Estate would be the better investment right now. Just buy some nice land.

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post #9 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:05 PM
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ANY: Old school 12 cylinder, and buy as many of the same example as you can: Corner the marked. Knew a guy in CA/BayArea who bought five of the 512BBIs...not sure why but thought how smart.

Saw on the news today a 250 GTO up for sale, and touted as the world's most expensive car : SO get that one for starters...although it will probably be someone's way overpriced example http://ferraridreamcars.blogspot.com...t-auction.html

Found this item too: Investing the $18k from the 60's in Gold vs 250 GTO would be a huge diff in return.
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post #10 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post

On thing to remember w.r.t. cars being investments: there are a LOT of costs involved, that you need to take into account when calculating your return, if seeing it as a TRUE investment. The money I'm spending on my Boxer means that I need more than double the price I paid for the car to see a return... So my Boxer won't count as a decent investment any time soon.

Onno
Yes, definitely! This is one of the issues I'm trying to wrap my head around, and the biggest obstacle for me.
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post #11 of 30 Old 02-04-2010, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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I agree with AlexbroPA. I think Real Estate would be the better investment right now. Just buy some nice land.
Agreed, for sure! In fact, I just bought some real estate -- which quite conveniently came with two garage spaces -- and it got me thinking of how to fill those spaces in the future
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post #12 of 30 Old 02-05-2010, 01:53 AM
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Investing the $18k from the 60's in Gold vs 250 GTO would be a huge diff in return.
It's about the car model more than anything else.

In 1967 you could buy, for about $16k, the following Ferrari cars:

1. 330 GTC. Now worth up to $250k.
2. 275 GTB/4. Now worth up to $1 million
3. 330 GT 2+2. Now worth up to $75k.

So these graphs about growing wealth with cars are great but they always only look at the success stories. And do not forget: a Japanese man bought a 250GTO for $15 million in 1990 and had to sell it in 1991 for I think $3.4 million... If you had bought any of the 3 cars above in 1988/1989, you would not have seen a decent return in the past 20 years. If you had bought in 1991/1992, it's a different story.

If you can ride out the lows (so can afford to keep them in good nick), then you should see your money back, even if you bought at a high. But you have to sell at the right times. There is no reason to assume that another low market is not in the future.


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post #13 of 30 Old 01-10-2012, 03:08 PM
 
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Ferrari 360 CS

Hello guys,

Please can you tell me your opinion. I was offerd to buy a nicely maintained 360 CS for about 90 000 Euros. I had never owned Ferrari. Currently: 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo, Merc GLK... I love the car, but... I would like to start my car collecion and spent some time on studing the market of classic cars and vintage cars(mostly mercedes, corvettes etc...). I certainly cant afford GTO or Lusso, F40 and F50 range... Can you guys please post some comments what do you think...does 360 CS has a potential of great price growth over next 5-15 years?

If that is a bad choice, is there any better Ferrari investment in range of max 150 000 EUROs?

Thank you for your kind comments.
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-10-2012, 03:49 PM
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I'd say the 360 CS would have zero appreciation in the time period you mention. In fact, if you ignore the depreciation and take into consideration just the cost to maintain it, you're likely to end up wth a negative ROI.

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post #15 of 30 Old 01-10-2012, 04:56 PM
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i think the dino and bb would be good buys in that price range. can you still get a gtc/4 for that?



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post #16 of 30 Old 01-10-2012, 06:43 PM
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Ed- Affirmative, GTC/4s, as usual, are bringing half or less of the cost of a Daytona.

Any Boxer in great shape.
365 GTB/4 (soon, getting well above 458 prices)
Dino 246 GT
365 GTC/4
365 GT 2+2
250 GT 2+2
330 America
330 GT 2+2
330/365 GTC

Well maintained, any of these should depreciate very little, but all will be expensive to properly maintain. Break something and it can get very expensive.

All the SOHC glamour cars are too expensive.

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post #17 of 30 Old 01-10-2012, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F111 View Post
Hello guys,

Please can you tell me your opinion. I was offerd to buy a nicely maintained 360 CS for about 90 000 Euros. I had never owned Ferrari. Currently: 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo, Merc GLK... I love the car, but... I would like to start my car collecion and spent some time on studing the market of classic cars and vintage cars(mostly mercedes, corvettes etc...). I certainly cant afford GTO or Lusso, F40 and F50 range... Can you guys please post some comments what do you think...does 360 CS has a potential of great price growth over next 5-15 years?

If that is a bad choice, is there any better Ferrari investment in range of max 150 000 EUROs?

Thank you for your kind comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
I'd say the 360 CS would have zero appreciation in the time period you mention. In fact, if you ignore the depreciation and take into consideration just the cost to maintain it, you're likely to end up wth a negative ROI.
+1, in terms of investment grade, it starts more in the Euro 300k range, includes the modern supercars, and all Enzo era 2 seaters only. IMHO, given the recent price rises, Dinos and BBs are already fully priced with little upside left.
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post #18 of 30 Old 01-11-2012, 04:05 AM
 
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Thank you guys for your kind comments it is a great help. Here is some quick research on prices over here:

GTC4:
gtc/4 Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

Dino:
dino Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

512 BB:
BB Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

365 range:
Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

250 Range:
Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

330:
Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

I like aspecially the silver 330 from nederlanden.

Guys, I have only one problem, but it has probably nothing to do with this investment basis theme. I am 31, I have couple of house, property, land, flats that I let etc... I want to make an investment that is fun for me. I am a definitive petrolhead. The problem is that cars you mentioned doesnt mean much to me... I am a different generation and I cant imagine driving them. What would you sugest according also to Killers opinion. Should I better invest in mor money (I gave a price range before, because I thougt it wasnt so neccesary to go so high)F40 that I cosider as a great car than these ones just because it is my era car? Or should I better invest in older Ferraries and buy a 360 CS or Scuderia just for fun? Good ROI is my goal nr.1

Thank you again. Have a nice day!
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post #19 of 30 Old 01-11-2012, 05:18 AM
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CDKHOPKAR, F111,

I think the whole concept of having a Ferrari that you can have fun with while it appreciates as a viable investment is generally flawed. They are very expensive toys. Even the collectable cars that have realized decent ROIs in the past have not done so reliably. The ones that have have either done so over a long period or are an order of magnitude above your price range.

While no one can predict the future, the cars in the price range you mention are unlikely to realize much appreciation. True, the market is down due to the recession, so there will likely be an upswing as it recovers. But even minimal cost of ownership (don't forget insurance) is almost certain to result in a negative ROI.

If this were not the case, F-Life would be an investment firm and Andrew would be charging for this advice....

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post #20 of 30 Old 01-11-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F111 View Post
Thank you guys for your kind comments it is a great help. . Should I better invest in mor money (I gave a price range before, because I thougt it wasnt so neccesary to go so high)F40 that I cosider as a great car than these ones just because it is my era car? Or should I better invest in older Ferraries and buy a 360 CS or Scuderia just for fun? Good ROI is my goal nr.1

Thank you again. Have a nice day!
In terms of trying to determine if a Ferrari has any investment potential you need to consider:

Age (Older the better, exception modern Supercars)
Number of seat (2 is much better than 4)
Number produced (lower the better)
Race History
Market Perception (i.e. a 250 GTO is well a 250 GTO, the single most desirable car on the planet, a 250 LM is very cool but its not quite a 250 GTO)
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