Do I buy an F512 M or a Berlinetta Boxer? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 34 Old 12-16-2009, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Do I buy an F512 M or a Berlinetta Boxer?

Salve Ferraristi,

I am eager to buy a boxer Ferrari. I love and adore the BB since way back but it is getting rather pricey. However, just recently I have discovered a bizarre and strong attraction to the 512 M, a car which external aesthetics I used to consider a tad too teenage appealing.

Now I get a feeling that Ferrari might not venture into inspirations originating from the Testarossa design and that might just make it an interesting piece of Ferrari culture to have and to keep. Also, if the high maintenance costs discourage ownership, the car might become rarer - fine by me.

The Testarossa design is from an era when vulgarity was celebrated and it is probably as close as Ferrari has ever been to the general ostentatious Lamborghini designs from that era and onwards.

I kindly ask for your thoughts and contemplations on my dilemma to guide me to a decision.

A presto,

il Capolino
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post #2 of 34 Old 12-16-2009, 02:30 PM
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I'll never forget the first TR I saw in person - it came over the hill and I was mesmerized by the singular mirror - knowing that it could only be a TR - and then watching Mr. Smith drive by me, smoking a big cigar. A sight for the ages...

Of course, I turned and followed - respectfully - but what a car and what an impression. Of course, I was probably 24 years old at the time and loved the design, the fins, the width from the rear. Over the years, the TR design waned quite a bit, as there was another one in town that was just trashed - which turned me off of them for a while, but I, like you, have found a recent fondness for the design - even looking at them online today.

I love the BB as well - don't we all? - but the price on the TR's has come down tremendously (more than other Ferraris it appears) and have seen several in fine condition and service history for under US$100k - not sure that includes an 512s, though.

Could be a fine way to fulfill your boxer ambitions...

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post #3 of 34 Old 12-16-2009, 03:15 PM
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+1, I saw my first TR and thought "what a monster, and I just know the power under that hood must match [silently thinking Lambo]"

The BB, to me, has a lot more to wish for than the TR, both in 'classic' design and certainly in that engine and placement.

I vote for the BB....then again consider the source: I have two basically 2+2's....

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post #4 of 34 Old 12-16-2009, 11:27 PM
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Suggest you drive them both and then decide. Very different cars. The BB's are demanding "mechanical" cars where as the TR's are much more modern.
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post #5 of 34 Old 12-17-2009, 12:30 AM
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I'm very fond of the F512 M, rare and the last Boxer engine in a Ferrari. Having said that, Boxer is correct, drive both and get the one best suited for you.
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post #6 of 34 Old 12-17-2009, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
and certainly in that engine and placement.
The engine in the TR is an evolution of the one in the BBi and it's placement is the same (although I think they moved the gearbox so it sits a little lower).

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Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Suggest you drive them both and then decide. Very different cars. The BB's are demanding "mechanical" cars where as the TR's are much more modern.
I agree with Boxer - even driving different Boxers is an amazing experience - 365BB, 512BB and 512BBi are very different cars in feel. That's also my comment on Boxer's remark: although the early Boxers are very demanding and mechanical as he states, the BBi is a much easier car to drive and sits, I think, in spirit closer to the TR than the 512BB. The 512M you mention is a much improved version of the TR and I think you'll find quite a difference if you'd drive them back to back.

So go and drive a couple and see what you think.

Just my $0.02.


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post #7 of 34 Old 12-17-2009, 04:23 AM
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I drove both and must tell you that I was totally surprised by the 512M's handling capabilities. I drove the 512M on a very curvy race track in France. That car was holding like glued to the ground in the curve's. Much better i.e. a 550/575, absolutelly like a 360 if not better. And Lots of power reserves, really fantastic. The 512M is really the 12 cylinder (little brother) alternative to the F50 ! Of course, nothing compares to the F50, but still its next nearby meaningfull equation.

The 512 BB is wonderful na beautiful car, a classic, and this says all, a classic !
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post #8 of 34 Old 12-17-2009, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your valuable inputs and for your welcoming me onboard.

Salve,
il Capolino
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post #9 of 34 Old 12-17-2009, 04:58 PM
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couldn't be much different. i would vote for the boxer though. and the boxer could be cheaper up front. if you got the 512m, you would be in rarefied company though. i think if you drove both of them, you would make up your mind pretty quickly.



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post #10 of 34 Old 12-25-2009, 02:45 PM
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Boxer. TR looks too much like a Firebird w/ a kit. Your 1st intuition is right. BB has race history too. I rode in this one on track at a Brian Redman club meet.
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post #11 of 34 Old 12-25-2009, 03:39 PM
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I'm crazy about both. Although, just seeing a 512M these days is a rare treat.
Here is a pic a took a while back of one. Nice angles on that car.
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post #12 of 34 Old 12-25-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venus View Post
Boxer. TR looks too much like a Firebird w/ a kit. Your 1st intuition is right. BB has race history too. I rode in this one on track at a Brian Redman club meet.
never heard this before. Here i am thinking it was a milestone in automotive design. Don't know if i would be too proud of the "BB"'s race history either. They sucked.



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post #13 of 34 Old 12-25-2009, 05:28 PM
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And the modular wheels that came on the 512M are one-of-a-kind, for sure.
It's one of the things that makes spotting a 512M from a distance an easy thing to do.
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post #14 of 34 Old 12-25-2009, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
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never heard this before. Here i am thinking it was a milestone in automotive design. Don't know if i would be too proud of the "BB"'s race history either. They sucked.
Agree, the Daytona has a much more impressive race history. By the time the BB arrived, the factory had basically lost interest in supporting anything other than F1.

However, I have seen a couple of BBs running in the Ferrari Classic series and they are still quite a impressive to see running flat out down the straight. Sound track is ear shattering.
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post #15 of 34 Old 12-26-2009, 07:44 AM
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IMO, il cap should & could go for this instead of the modern version. Damn sexy lines. Makes my mouth water...
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post #16 of 34 Old 12-26-2009, 08:08 AM
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Firebird? I thought the TR was a fiero on steriods

I don't think it was even on the drawing board at the time of this red beauty:
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post #17 of 34 Old 12-26-2009, 08:54 AM
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yes, i see them at cav every year and they are very impressive in the flesh. Definitely love the way they look and sound. excellent photo ops but not much of a race history. here is a pic from cav 08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Agree, the Daytona has a much more impressive race history. By the time the BB arrived, the factory had basically lost interest in supporting anything other than F1.

However, I have seen a couple of BBs running in the Ferrari Classic series and they are still quite a impressive to see running flat out down the straight. Sound track is ear shattering.


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post #18 of 34 Old 12-26-2009, 08:57 AM
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IMO, il cap should & could go for this instead of the modern version. Damn sexy lines. Makes my mouth water...
one of the most beautiful motors as well. From cav 09.



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post #19 of 34 Old 12-29-2009, 06:33 AM
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One of the reasons, the Daytona statistically was more successfull in races was the fact that the Daytona have been able to start in the GT classfromthe beginning on.

Initially, the 365 BB's needed to start against the prototypes, as numbers of cars build for homologation for the GT class were not enough in the beginning. Once homologation was o.k. the Boxers were outdated against the new Porsche turbo's. But even when starting in prototype class they have been doing pretty good.
3 type 365 BB have been converted to racing specs by privateer's (18095, 18139 and 17577)
Most successfullwas 18139 running under the NART banner. Dick Fritz, who race prepped this most successfull 365 BB said about the BB's racetrack experience: "It was incredible ! It was nice it was setup, it remonded me of a large wide-bodied go-cart. If we would have 600 hp it would have been a incredible car, unbeliavable compared to the Daytona (ouch!). I didn't not think of the Daytona as a race car. Everybody will say "Oh this idiot does not know what he's talking about" but they did not had to race or work on them. THEY WERE TRUCKS (ouch again!), SUPER DEPENDABLE, BUT TRUCKS.

For the whole story Cavallino number 47, November 1988, page 33-39 will give the real enthusiast some clues.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-05-2010, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
One of the reasons, the Daytona statistically was more successfull in races was the fact that the Daytona have been able to start in the GT classfromthe beginning on.

Initially, the 365 BB's needed to start against the prototypes, as numbers of cars build for homologation for the GT class were not enough in the beginning. Once homologation was o.k. the Boxers were outdated against the new Porsche turbo's. But even when starting in prototype class they have been doing pretty good.
3 type 365 BB have been converted to racing specs by privateer's (18095, 18139 and 17577)
Most successfullwas 18139 running under the NART banner. Dick Fritz, who race prepped this most successfull 365 BB said about the BB's racetrack experience: "It was incredible ! It was nice it was setup, it remonded me of a large wide-bodied go-cart. If we would have 600 hp it would have been a incredible car, unbeliavable compared to the Daytona (ouch!). I didn't not think of the Daytona as a race car. Everybody will say "Oh this idiot does not know what he's talking about" but they did not had to race or work on them. THEY WERE TRUCKS (ouch again!), SUPER DEPENDABLE, BUT TRUCKS.

For the whole story Cavallino number 47, November 1988, page 33-39 will give the real enthusiast some clues.

OK 212Export how do you know all these info's just amazing we really have some die heart F car fans here haha.....

On the topic: TR is so nice my first drive in a ferrari was a TR just so powerful and angry yet beautiful all in one. BB on the other hand is just fantastic especially in that blue never driven one but i would love to have one, and thats why i never see any Boxer or BB here for sell because the owners know they've got a winner.

Cheers
D
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