Boxer's wet sump/dry sump difference - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Boxer's wet sump/dry sump difference

As I followed up the different 365/512 Boxer thread's it was interesting to find out that almost nobody of the present or previous different Boxer owner ever mentioned the layout difference between the wetsump solution on the 365BB and the drysump technique of the 512's.
Does it mean that there is no "feelable" difference on that (because these cars are not driven in anger anymore)? Any conclusions on that difference anyhow ?
As I'm on the learning curve on this any comment or experience would be welcomed.
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 02:58 AM
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In interesting observation on wet sump 365 BB versus dry sump 512 BB, 212Export. One of the things that attracted me to my previous 512 BB was the dry sump and wider 9" rear rims (7" all round for the 365 BB) as I planned to enjoy her on the occasional trackday. Once I had a terrific scrap with a 365 BB for a number of laps around Kyalami driven by the SEFAC chairman that he has owned since 1981. There was little in it-I was a bit quicker through the bends but then onto the straights, I could pull level before he pulled a slight advantage. I could not get past. At the end of it we both had almost total brake fade and my oil temp was maxed out (water temp and oil pressure fine). My mechanic told me that the 512BB had no oil cooler which surely cannot be correct?
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 06:38 AM
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On the very first 365s there was a exchanger of heat (engine oil).We can see it on #17585 (Jymmy Chen Shiba 's Car on picture 1)
My 365 (#18011) doesn't have it but oil never gets too hot.

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post #4 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona73 View Post
On the very first 365s there was a exchanger of heat (engine oil).We can see it on #17585 (Jymmy Chen Shiba 's Car on picture 1)
My 365 (#18011) doesn't have it but oil never gets too hot.
Thank you for this interesting information Daytona73. This raises a few questions for me, like, why did they scrap this heat exchanger in the later BB's? Was it because they installed an oil cooler similar to the matrix type found in the 308 GTB? Apart from this heat exchanger, did the BB's not have any other type of oil cooler? Theoretically a dry sump should help the oil to run cooler but on the track in my 512 BB it was of little to no help.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 09:28 AM
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I've heard that the switch from wet to dry sump was due to a (perceived?) risk of oil starvation under heavy cornering. There are also rumours abound that several 365 engines went to the great track in the sky, possibly related to this problem.

I'm not sure if oil temperature was the main reasoning. In fact, I am not sure about any of this at all.


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post #6 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
did the BB's not have any other type of oil cooler?
I don't think that the other BB have an oil cooler.( Daytonas have an oil cooler in the front water radiator).

Here is the Lubrification system of the 512 BB

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About the differences of the 365/512 Gearbox we can see more oil for the 512 .(I wanted to ask Jimmy how many liters of oil he puts in his 365 but I can't post in the owner section)
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-11-2009, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona73 View Post
On the very first 365s there was a exchanger of heat (engine oil).We can see it on #17585 (Jymmy Chen Shiba 's Car on picture 1)
My 365 (#18011) doesn't have it but oil never gets too hot.

Attachment 18947
Attachment 18948
There is a typing error on the second picture on the right :

Read From car #17847 NOT 18847 . (I don't know how to edit this wrong attachement,sorry)

Here is the picture with the good serial number.

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post #8 of 12 Old 11-12-2009, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
I've heard that the switch from wet to dry sump was due to a (perceived?) risk of oil starvation under heavy cornering. There are also rumours abound that several 365 engines went to the great track in the sky, possibly related to this problem.

I'm not sure if oil temperature was the main reasoning. In fact, I am not sure about any of this at all.
Onno
I agree that the main reason for the dry sump set-up would be to prevent oil starvation during hard cornering with a secondary benefit being that the oil temp would (should?) be lowered by having the oil circulating through a seperate tank.

I am surprised though that with this racing set-up of the dry sump, no oil cooler was fitted. On the road oil temp never above half on the 512BB but on the track it took less than 2 laps for it to be maxed out.
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post #9 of 12 Old 12-25-2009, 08:48 AM
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As I understand it wet sumps work fine for racing but must be fitted with a series of internal, parallel and longitudinal bulkheads. These will sufficiently delay the lateral movement of the oil in hard cornering preventing starvation.

I may be mistaken but i think the main reason for dry sump is to lower the engine for a generally lower centre of gravity of the car. For racing, I would assume that an oil cooler upgrade is essential for any of the two a/m oil return reservoir setups. All Challange cars for instance are upgraded with the excellent Setrab racing oil cooler.

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post #10 of 12 Old 01-12-2010, 02:02 PM
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Not so sure the more moder cars have that problem with the internal baffles.

Modern pumps keep the oil flowing well and even under extreem G's.

Even the older ones, claiming starvation, had fixes. F1's have the same internals for even the fuel, but seem to experience no problems.

Some one else would know better.

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post #11 of 12 Old 01-12-2010, 02:35 PM
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A friend of mine regularly goes to the Porsche track day events with his Boxter. Last summer he fitted road legal R-tyres and seized the engine from oil starvation during a regular good run. Porsche refused to cover the engine overhaul because of the tyres but luckily he had more leverage on his insurance company. Now he regrettably can't use his R-tyres.

I told him to get a Ferrari of course and let him have a go in mine and I think we soon have new ferrarista collegue...

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post #12 of 12 Old 01-13-2010, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by il Capolino View Post
I told him to get a Ferrari of course and let him have a go in mine and I think we soon have new ferrarista collegue...


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