engine out service??? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-08-2009, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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engine out service???

ok, so i dont own a ferrari but ive recently thought about buying one. all over e-bay i see these huge service bills (10k) and engine out service repairs with low miles (30-40k), so whats the deal? whay do these cars need to be disassembled so much for service? im speaking to be specific about the 355 because thats what i was looking at. its kind of scary as an investment in an automobile. i like to drive and it seems these cars cant be driven without a mechanic in a car behind it. can some one shed some light on my confusion.
thanks, xs
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-08-2009, 05:05 PM
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Rick..I'm a 348 owner and lover but I can shed some light on the issue.

The 355 and the 348 motors are similar in the sense that the Cams are driven by a single serpentine belt that is not possible to access with the engine in the car. This cam belt is recommended change every 3 years or 30K miles along with the tennsioner. Most owner's run the belts out to 5 years, some even more. I am not aware of any owner that has changed one because of mileage alone. Its real important to do it because the engine is interference fit meaning the valves must be moved out of the way before the piston arrives. A skipped tooth or broken belt results in bent valves at least and scattered motor at worst.

The engine out service is expensive for a multitude of reason but it really gets out of control when you start replacing stuff because your in there. Silly to have easy access to the water pump and not service/replace it. If it goes, your gonna have to do the engine out again.

That is the issue in the cliff notes version... Now Honestly, these cars are VERY reliable. While I understand your statement about a following mechanic was tongue n cheek, it is totally un-warranted. There are a few things to watch out for on 348's and 355's but, all in all, there's no other Ferrari I wish to own (except a 288 GTO, thats differant)

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post #3 of 20 Old 09-09-2009, 02:44 PM
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Saints got it

Yup: Ferrari in its 'wisdom' didn't care about the maintenance of 348/355 owners at the time. Matter of fact their solution to changing the belts was kind of a 'slap' too IMO.

It wouldn't have taken much to make an access port to that frontal engine bay, but no.....Ferrari says just jerk the engine. There is a discussion here, about doing such in 'situ'....but this shows the extraordinary concerns of some to get around the expensive/time-consuming issues of engine out. IMO, one takes risks because one needs to truly verify the cam dialing and inspect the water pump and bearings etc. etc.

The 355, is the most costly of the 8 cylinder, normal production, Ferraris to maintain [F40 is a different animal]. Not just because of the engine out, but the five valve deal and other items that if not sorted [thinking exhaust manifold] etc....or the fact many owners trick out the exhaust and such, that they see many more dollars in terms of keeping in order than the older 3x8 series. Even the 348 sees some of these issues.

Yes, it is not nice to have these bills...IF you are able to do the job yourself, then a lot of bang for the buck can be found.

I believe the 12cylinders are easier and more fun to overcome the 8's in terms of cost per cylinder especially at these prices, that unless you REALLY want that 355, you had better rethink yearly costs.

I know, as the 355 F1 was my first Ferrari to drive, and want. My ebay name for over 12 years reflects such, but, I gave it up as even though it's much more car than a 348, it was out of my, then, current budget. I 'might' consider one later when prices fall, I have room to repair, and/or it is a nicely sorted car...but, doubtful.
I NOW prefer the 12's and the 550/575 + series are very, very, nice and you would know what a Ferrari is, when you step on that gas....they are awesome and easier to maintain.

Shoot, Ferrari in a sense has seen the errors of that belt thingy and now switched back to chains [let the flames begin], but honestly, even though one would need to dial in the stuff and replace the pumps etc, the chains could have made the required belt changes less of a cost.

BTW: 10k for 355 sound about 2K too much at the top end...something else must have been done. A quality mech can perform between 7.5-8.5 K and with most replaced parts better than OEM.

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Last edited by Granucci; 09-09-2009 at 02:50 PM.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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thanks for the response

i really like the look of the 348, 355, and 360 but price wise the 355 seems doable. my concern is that i am buying a "look" and not the machine when i see these hi maintainence costs. for around the same price i could buy a viper and not worrie about all this engine out stuff and still get all the performance and more but no ferrari badge. i beleive i will sit on this awhile. thanks for all the info.
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 01:01 PM
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I've never owned a Viper but my understanding is the total running costs of a 348 are in fact cheaper. Basically zero maintenance except that belt change deal. With the exception of an unexpected alternator rebuild, (kind of expected on a 18 year old car) I can confirm the reliability numbers with my 348. Never a problem I could not easily solve. Did the alternator myself also.


BTW - Beautiful floors. Nice web site.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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well, that seems to be my dilhema...18years old versus nearly new and minimal maintainence, the problem is that i love the look.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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BTW - Beautiful floors. Nice web site.
thanks! this is my passion. here is a great one i just completed
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 07:31 PM
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Agree with the comments from Lane and Rik regarding maintenance costs and issues. When you service your Ferrari it is expensive but the services are not frequent. I've had my '06 Chevy Silverado for about a year and half and in that time I've spent more money in maintenance and repair than I have on the 308 in the 7 years I've owned it.

BTW - I also agree with Lane on the floors. I checked out your website too.

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post #9 of 20 Old 09-27-2009, 07:37 PM
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Also, I was just thinking, your user name on here "XSCASH" would be a great vanity license plate for a 355!

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post #10 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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I've had my '06 Chevy Silverado for about a year and half and in that time I've spent more money in maintenance and repair than I have on the 308 in the 7 years I've owned it.

BTW - I also agree with Lane on the floors. I checked out your website too.
first off, thanks for the comments on my floors....how many miles does your truck have compared to the 308? cost per mile...it seems the engine out service should be done every 30k, hell ill rack that up in a year. i made a joke with a friend who owns a diablo and puts about 900-1000mi on it a year. whats the sense of owning it if its not going to be driven, im a driver and would be asking lambo if there was a special holder or compartment for my snow brush.
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 06:43 AM
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I think people need to get it clear in their minds that these cars are not built in the hundreds of thousands and they don't use switch gear from the latest Ford Focus. They will always be more expensive than a Viper or a Porsche and less reliable, simply because there are so few of them. It is no different for Aston Martin, TVR, Lamborghini or any other bespoke sportscar manufacturer. You are not paying for the name (well maybe a little), you are paying for exclusivity.

Ferraris can be very reliable but they do need proper money spent on them. If you are already sitting on the fence, my advice would be to buy the Viper as you are always going to be frustrated with Ferrari part prices and service requirements. For me, they are totally worth the money. But it's not something for everyone.

I do have to ask though - why do you need to rack up 30k miles in a Ferrari every year? What's the point of taking it to the shops? I drive mine a lot (around 8k miles per year), but always to events and on holidays, not daily. I've got my nice Beemer for that. If I used my F's every day they would lose some of the magic. At least, that's my feeling. FWIW - you could certainly do 30k per annum in the later models, and I know people that have. But they then do require a major service every year.


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post #12 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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i guess im looking to have my cake and eat it too. my first car was an '89 mustang convertable supercharged which racked up close to 60k a year for the first few years(i still own it 350k later). hell i even invested in a custom made ski rack for it. i like to drive plain and simple. i love the look of a ferrari and who can for get that sound, but i dont want it in my garage all the time. i understand the hot chick senario....if they are always there they lose their appeal, but the great thing is you can always change to a different model when it gets old (the car that is). i really appreaciate you all weighing in on this for me it really helps with my thinking. perhaps when i can afford to buy a second "hot" vehicle this will not be an issue.
thanks to everyone for sheding some light on this.
xs
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 10:19 AM
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If your thinking about this as a Daily Driver...I agree with your assessment. ya need a beater for 60K a year. Doubt you'd enjoy doing 2 majors a year based on mileage alone. As a weekend car though, they can't be beat. I've done near 10K in 2 years with my honey.

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 10:05 PM
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+1, for 5-10k a year, any of the Ferrari models you list would be fine. If you are doing 30-60k a year, probably better off with something a bit more cost efficient. 60k a year on the Ferrari would be 2 majors and 3-4 sets of tires.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-28-2009, 10:44 PM
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perhaps when i can afford to buy a second "hot" vehicle this will not be an issue
I think this is the crucial sentence. What can you afford? Probably more than you think. Three years ago I was looking to buy my first new car, and I was thinking a nice 3 series coupe like the 335i. First, I nearly fainted when I saw the price + options. Then, I realised that you lose half of that value in the first 2 years. That's money you worked very hard for! After that, I started researching Ferraris and running costs and when I was convinced I could afford it I bought a 550 Maranello together with a 4 year old 3 series coupe (respectively for 41% and 31% of the first owner's cost!). In practice, running both those cars has been cheaper than a new run-of-the-mill 335i.

I can't tell you what to do, but if I were you I WOULD have my cake and eat it: run an American sportscar of a couple of years old for most of the mileage and run a Ferrari for the rest. You'll soon find a balance that works for you and the lack of depreciation in both cars will more than compensate for the higher running costs. Plus you will have some variety - I love the fun of choosing my ride for the day.


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post #16 of 20 Old 09-29-2009, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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onno, you are in my head! that is exactly what i am thinking now, buy an american daily driver and an older exotic for fun. hell im so busy right now i will not have time to drive either of them so my 60k/year is out the window anyway. besides, my clients will look down upon me if i show up to do a floor in a ferrari, however cool that would be. speaking of that, i do not have any good shots of ferraris on my floors....i guess ill call a friend (328)and shoot one this weekend. ill post the pics. thanks to everyone for their comments.
xs
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-29-2009, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by xscash View Post
onno, you are in my head! that is exactly what i am thinking now, buy an american daily driver and an older exotic for fun. hell im so busy right now i will not have time to drive either of them so my 60k/year is out the window anyway. besides, my clients will look down upon me if i show up to do a floor in a ferrari, however cool that would be. speaking of that, i do not have any good shots of ferraris on my floors....i guess ill call a friend (328)and shoot one this weekend. ill post the pics. thanks to everyone for their comments.
xs
Splitting it into a 5 day car and a 2 day Ferrari sounds like a very good plan. You might even consider getting a Porshce 993 or 996 for use as a daily. Both models are almost fully depreciated and easy to run as daily drivers.
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post #18 of 20 Old 10-04-2009, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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ok so im now looking at the GTM by factory five, it uses a lt1 corvette motor and has all the thing i am looking for ....well except for the ferrari name. have you guys seen it or heard anything about it?
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-04-2009, 09:27 PM
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ok so im now looking at the GTM by factory five, it uses a lt1 corvette motor and has all the thing i am looking for ....well except for the ferrari name. have you guys seen it or heard anything about it?
Negative on both.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-05-2009, 10:32 AM
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Three years ago I was looking to buy my first new car, and I was thinking a nice 3 series coupe like the 335i. [...] Then, I realised that you lose half of that value in the first 2 years. [...] After that, I started researching Ferraris and running costs and when I was convinced I could afford it I bought a 550 Maranello together with a 4 year old 3 series coupe (respectively for 41% and 31% of the first owner's cost!). In practice, running both those cars has been cheaper than a new run-of-the-mill 335i.
And the beauty of it is that by now the 335i has been on the market for some 3 years so the rampant depreciation of the initial 2-3 years is over and done with. I have one for daily use and it's fabulous: unassuming, solid, reliable, easy to drive (lots of torque), but surprisingly fast and nimble (only drawback is that I was stupid enough to get it new). So if you are not hell-bent on driving American, you should at least consider a 335!

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