Pirates - Somalia, How to deal with ? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-12-2009, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Pirates - Somalia, How to deal with ?

I have been following the hostage situation off the coast of Somalia. Very glad to see that Capt. Philipps was freed safely, and at the same time we avoided any court and incarceration costs. However the situation in that area of the world is gotten really out of control and other than force, I don't think the Somalia's respect any other types of "diplomatic" initiatives.

There have been several cases of pirate boats being seized by different Navies operating in the area, weapons taken away, and then the pirates set free. Perhaps a more traditional approach to the piracy problem is in order. You get caught with automatic weapons and gernade launchers in those waters, justice is swift.
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-12-2009, 09:58 PM
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I have been following the hostage situation off the coast of Somalia. Very glad to see that Capt. Philipps was freed safely, and at the same time we avoided any court and incarceration costs. However the situation in that area of the world is gotten really out of control and other than force, I don't think the Somalia's respect any other types of "diplomatic" initiatives.

There have been several cases of pirate boats being seized by different Navies operating in the area, weapons taken away, and then the pirates set free. Perhaps a more traditional approach to the piracy problem is in order. You get caught with automatic weapons and gernade launchers in those waters, justice is swift.
Yes indeed how right you are ! I have been reading about that family sailing with their kid around in these waters and being kidnapped and finally saved and rescued (except for the wive who seems to be shot by the pirates). As a father and sailer as well I can not imagine how someone goes sailing in those dangereous areas ?!
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 02:23 AM
 
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Boxer... if by "Justice is swift" you mean they should be shot on sight: I'm with you man !! It's bad enough that piracy is still around, but the worst part is that the traditional pirates of yesteryear (the english and the dutch -Flying Dutchman anyone?) are replaced by a bunch of half-assed idiots from africa. Nothing against africans.... but these new pirates have NO respect for tradition...
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 03:01 AM
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2 words - "Navy Seals"

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post #5 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 03:30 AM
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As a merchant mariner piracy is of course a concern of mine. Believe it or not I'm actually responsible for the security aboard my ship. Fortunately I'm on a ship that has a very low hostage value for a pirate. We have no money onboard, we don't carry any cargo, we have a crew of 120 hardened men plus we are lit up like a small town even when underway. We are a tough target for a pirate to attack for very little return. So even though we operate in pirate infested waters, the concern for pirate boarding is very low.

There has been talk onboard about repelling pirates using the ship's fire hoses and monitors. I am against this. I think the only thing worse than having armed pirates onboard is having wet, pissed-off, armed pirates onboard.

Here's the kicker, I'm an American but the ship I am the Captain on is registered in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas; so if I get in trouble I don't get to call on the USA special forces. I have to call the Brits and get Monty Python's Flying Circus to come rescue my ass!

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post #6 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 06:56 AM
 
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Here's the kicker, I'm an American but the ship I am the Captain on is registered in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas; so if I get in trouble I don't get to call on the USA special forces. I have to call the Brits and get Monty Python's Flying Circus to come rescue my ass!
SAS can do that... they're quite effective. They even taught a lot of the united state special forces

I know I'm Dutch, but I still walk a little taller when Queen plays "God Save the Queen" on my MP3 player. No way am I gonna let some uncivilized colonial get away with insulting the Brits !
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post #7 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 07:53 AM
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As a merchant mariner piracy is of course a concern of mine. Believe it or not I'm actually responsible for the security aboard my ship. Fortunately I'm on a ship that has a very low hostage value for a pirate. We have no money onboard, we don't carry any cargo, we have a crew of 120 hardened men plus we are lit up like a small town even when underway. We are a tough target for a pirate to attack for very little return. So even though we operate in pirate infested waters, the concern for pirate boarding is very low.

There has been talk onboard about repelling pirates using the ship's fire hoses and monitors. I am against this. I think the only thing worse than having armed pirates onboard is having wet, pissed-off, armed pirates onboard.

Here's the kicker, I'm an American but the ship I am the Captain on is registered in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas; so if I get in trouble I don't get to call on the USA special forces. I have to call the Brits and get Monty Python's Flying Circus to come rescue my ass!

:Pete,
great to hear about your job, as a former Naval Officer, I LOVE the water, and hate it. My last three assignments on the Kitty Hawk were 1st Lt. Afloat, 1st Lt. Air Group, Legal Officer , and of course bridge watches, OOD{U}

rik

PS: Did some SEAL indoctrination/tests as a Midshipman in Coronado, and except for the swimming [I was a pre-olympic swimmer, made it ok in the trials until.......oh, well, it was Marks' time ] found the courses difficult: The SEALs I did talk to were most awsome, nothing like the Venturra nit...Calms...capable, and that's the suffice to any description I can say about them.

Glad Obama gave the go-ahead to pull the trigger....sorry for the loss of life but it would only get worse, not better if left unchecked:
NOW
the stakes have been raised and the pirates with their cash will be worse

I am for Point defense, like those Army sound wave generators that go through anything and feels like a severe sunburn until out of range:
that' what we need not water hoses.

rik

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post #8 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete04222 View Post

Here's the kicker, I'm an American but the ship I am the Captain on is registered in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas; so if I get in trouble I don't get to call on the USA special forces. I have to call the Brits and get Monty Python's Flying Circus to come rescue my ass!
Oh yeah, SAS and SBS, make your lot look like pussies.

Pete, I think I'll let Chaz answer this one for the Brits on here and on behalf of the British Armed forces. BTW have you seen how big he is?
: rifle:

Bas, it would be a pleasure to have you as an honourary Brit. Funny that, if I werent British, I would like to be Dutch

Archie
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 10:23 AM
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Piracy is a criminal act and should be dealt with accordingly. They really do need to be taught a lesson. It may be that after the swift action that was taken to free Capt Phillips they may think twice about hijacking another ship.


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SAS can do that... they're quite effective. They even taught a lot of the united state special forces

I know I'm Dutch, but I still walk a little taller when Queen plays "God Save the Queen" on my MP3 player. No way am I gonna let some uncivilized colonial get away with insulting the Brits !

Did you know the Norwiegens have a very similiar National Anthem.




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post #10 of 22 Old 04-13-2009, 07:30 PM
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Yeah Arch, I stuck that in there just to rile up the Brits on the site. I see it worked.
BTW - if Chaz wants to hunt me down please make sure he gets my wife's address correct before he lets loose the vengeance.
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Oh yeah, SAS and SBS, make your lot look like pussies.

Pete, I think I'll let Chaz answer this one for the Brits on here and on behalf of the British Armed forces. BTW have you seen how big he is?
: rifle:

Bas, it would be a pleasure to have you as an honourary Brit. Funny that, if I werent British, I would like to be Dutch

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post #11 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 07:22 AM
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Well, like I thought, they have upped the stakes, another four ships in less than 24 hours.

Time to start shooting back I say. Turned less friendly some time ago and done in my mind.

Might as well take over the ports.

I cannot understand the continual ploy of "it's too large an area".

If the Pirates can get to the ships, regardless of how many ships, and deploy small boats, well, if they can 'patrol such a large area' and get their prey, why can't we?

Our radar is awsome and can get them miles away.

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 11:34 AM
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I don't think that taking over their ports or even patroling their sovereign waters is the way to win friends and influence people at either the UN or in the islamic world. Both the US and the UK are far too stretched already to do that, and I don't think that Obama wants to be hated in the middle east the way that Bush was, so it's a non starter.

Upping the naval patrols in international waters is the only way to deal with it, and when they catch suspected pirates, they should be made to walk the plank 300 nautical miles from shore.

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post #13 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 01:31 PM
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I think the better solution is to go ashore, and destroy every boat they see, and all the engines, and make sure that there isn't any gasoline, diesel fuel, or other combustables. Then we should tell them that if we see them out there again, making trouble, we'll start with their housing.

Nobody dies, but it definetly puts them out of business.

Art
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 01:53 PM
 
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I say kill em all. But I'm not really a nice person. Pete also isn't very nice. He lured in the Brits and even the Non-Brits !!! Damn the mariner. Everybody should hate Pete. He once captained the Enterprise !!!
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 02:31 PM
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I think the issue about going into Somalia is that we have already been there. There has to be some cohesive strategy on patrolling international waters in a way the allows ships safe passage, perhaps a cordon on the edge of the Somali territorial waters with a defensive mandate that allows Naval ships to 'disarm' pirate boats and then destroy them. The thing is that these guys use small, fast boats and the larger, cargo vessels seem to be no match for them. This is a tactical manoeuvre that is being more widely and successfully used against big ships and it is perhaps time that we downsized our patrol boats to engage these small pirate boats more effectively.

I also think that the Somali pirates are not winning themselves any friends in the Arab/Islamic world by targetting oil tankers. It seems to me that the targets are indiscriminate, they are just out to get whatever they can from whomever they can.

Making them walk the plank is a great idea!


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post #16 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 05:34 PM
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I don't think that taking over their ports or even patroling their sovereign waters is the way to win friends and influence people at either the UN or in the islamic world. Both the US and the UK are far too stretched already to do that, and I don't think that Obama wants to be hated in the middle east the way that Bush was, so it's a non starter.

Upping the naval patrols in international waters is the only way to deal with it, and when they catch suspected pirates, they should be made to walk the plank 300 nautical miles from shore.

Sorry arch, I'm with ART on this one. and he's a lawyer/attorney.

I know a bit about maritime law and this is allowed to an extent. Sov. inland water are off limits, but open sea is intl' rules of the road/ int' law.

I say MINE the harbors, and negotiate from there. They are rogue thugs. This is not al q or taliban operating from land. This is a different set of laws. and it has some allowance.

They have a rogue/lawless govt. that cannot curtail. They are terrorizing lives, and almost every country. this can be officially dealt with. A skipper/capt at sea IS god, and only answers when 'touching land/not-uder-weigh/way' such is ROR.

One of the US Navy's primary mission states: Deny the Seas to others. Primary item.

This is and should be done.

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post #17 of 22 Old 04-14-2009, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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I would support putting more Naval forces in the area patrolling just outside Somali teritorial waters with a clear mandate to board and inspect any and all ships in the area. If you get caught with weapons on board, ship goes to the bottom and you get sent off to Saudi Arabia to be put on trial for attempted piracy.

After a few of them end up on the block on a sunny Friday afternoon, it will slow things down considerably.

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post #18 of 22 Old 04-15-2009, 09:08 AM
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Well, it's now upped in the ante department: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/...bWFsaXBpcmF0ZQ--

Quote:
A pirate whose gang attacked the aid ship admitted Wednesday that his group was targeting American ships and sailors.
"We will seek out the Americans and if we capture them we will slaughter them," said a 25-year-old pirate based in the Somali port of Harardhere who gave only his first name, Ismail.
"We will target their ships because we know their flags. Last night, an American-flagged ship escaped us by a whisker. We have showered them with rocket-propelled grenades," boasted Ismail, who did not take part in the attack on the Liberty Sun
War declaration sponsored, by default, from a Somali govt.

time to clean house, blockade, etc.

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post #19 of 22 Old 04-15-2009, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Well, it's now upped in the ante department: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/...bWFsaXBpcmF0ZQ--



War declaration sponsored, by default, from a Somali govt.

time to clean house, blockade, etc.

rik
Agree, arrest a bunch, put their boats on the bottom, and turn them over to the Saudis or Chinese for trial.

When it starts becoming high risk for them, it will stop.
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-15-2009, 09:55 PM
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Actually, I think the easiest way would be to just offer an open bounty of $50 on the head of any pirate. Cash money, no questions asked. They'd be killing each other off so quick the piracy problem would be solved in a week. Why take a risky journey hundreds of miles out to sea in a little open boat with no guarantee of success when you could make a quick thousand bucks in the comfort and convenience of your own little village with a few hours work?

We don't need to send men with guns over there, there's already men with guns over there. We just need to put 'em on the payroll and give 'em some ammo.

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