Car & Driver declares end of GM :) - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
 
dpironi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: At my Apple IIc
Ferrari Life Posts: 38
Car & Driver declares end of GM :)

"Ahh GM you gave us so many great motoring memories from the Chevette Scooter to the X car, and not forgetting the Corvette parked down the street with the paint runs, but alas, sadly you are no more and news of your death hasn't been exaggerrated. You will be missed...most likely by the U.A.W. lol."

Nothing like kicking someone when they are down, lol.



GM 1909-2009 R.I.P

dpironi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
Thats pretty stupid to post. Many people are going to lose their jobs if GM crashes. It is the heads of the companies, not the workers screwing up. It would affect millions

Also, what is with the Firebird link?

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
post #3 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 07:00 PM
Owner
 
Tony K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA
Ferrari Life Posts: 465
I agree with Chris. I'm no fan of GM, but where did this come from?

Tony K.

1980 308 GTBi
Tony K is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 08:20 PM
Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Ferrari Life Posts: 260
I am no economist nor an auto guru but I do believe that the U.S. automakers did or do have a chance of survival if it were not for the auto unions. As a businessman, these days business survival is low overhead. Granted, you need to pay good wages but you cannot pay workers all of these benefits plus retirement benefits until they live until they live until they are 100 years old plus support their health and dental benefits along their families as well. No way in the world can any small, middle, or large company ever survive. It is like a pyrimid scheme or more recencty popular terminology would be a ponzi scheme. Unions are a thing of the past and it just does not work. Unless there is no competition, any union labor should be dissipated effective immediately. Toyota, Honda, Hyndai, Volkswagon, and other foreign automakers would take over the big 3 and the U.S. bail out money on the U.S. auto makers would be pretty much be wasted tax dollars and another I told you so for THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION which I think is absolutely clueless and is making total jackasses of themselves. Just my two cents.
Lambo65 is offline  
post #5 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
GM does have the opportunity to survive, which is why I think what he posted is garbage. I've read the breakdown on the auto stimulus could pay every employee of GM $160,000. They are suppose to be downsizing big time, and then they are suppose to research and design new cars with less employees. I personally think they should buyout a ton of employees and work on fuel efficient vehicles. Most people don't know that Chevy's lineup has the highest average MPG for any car company. They just have to stop making huge cars. In my opinion that is the only flaw the new Camaro....its HUGE!

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
post #6 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 08:51 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 8
It has nothing to do with "huge" cars. Those SUV's sold very well until the gas prices spiked. But that spike is presently over.

The profit per vehicle has been skewed on account of the unions and the legacy costs. GM and Toyota sell a comparable amount of vehicles, but GM remains much less profitable on each vehicle sold.

Hugging tress and legislating higher MPG's will not solve foreign oil dependence or save GM.
wjgesq is offline  
post #7 of 29 Old 03-14-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjgesq View Post
It has nothing to do with "huge" cars. Those SUV's sold very well until the gas prices spiked. But that spike is presently over.

The profit per vehicle has been skewed on account of the unions and the legacy costs. GM and Toyota sell a comparable amount of vehicles, but GM remains much less profitable on each vehicle sold.

Hugging tress and legislating higher MPG's will not solve foreign oil dependence or save GM.
True SUV's still sell. I'm just saying that GM has the highest MPG lineup. I think its pretty interesting because everyone says that the cars are huge and get terrible gas mileage.

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
post #8 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
 
dpironi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: At my Apple IIc
Ferrari Life Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo65 View Post
I am no economist nor an auto guru but I do believe that the U.S. automakers did or do have a chance of survival if it were not for the auto unions. As a businessman, these days business survival is low overhead. Granted, you need to pay good wages but you cannot pay workers all of these benefits plus retirement benefits until they live until they live until they are 100 years old plus support their health and dental benefits along their families as well. No way in the world can any small, middle, or large company ever survive. It is like a pyrimid scheme or more recencty popular terminology would be a ponzi scheme. Unions are a thing of the past and it just does not work. Unless there is no competition, any union labor should be dissipated effective immediately. Toyota, Honda, Hyndai, Volkswagon, and other foreign automakers would take over the big 3 and the U.S. bail out money on the U.S. auto makers would be pretty much be wasted tax dollars and another I told you so for THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION which I think is absolutely clueless and is making total jackasses of themselves. Just my two cents.
The original comment was from Car & Driver not me, they have had an anti Big 3 mentality for years so I'm not surprised by that. Yes it's all about the legacy costs, which is the reason companies like Haynes and such have moved to South East Asia. Having to pay for health, pension etc makes what the Big 3 does automatically uncompetitive. The silver lining to a chapter 11 bankruptcy is that GM and Chrysler will automatically be free from legacy costs, I would go with that. There's no love for unions at Toyota.

dpironi is offline  
post #9 of 29 Old 03-24-2009, 08:35 AM
 
io sono tifoso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: florida, palmetto-bradenton
Ferrari Life Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishawk4 View Post
Thats pretty stupid to post. Many people are going to lose their jobs if GM crashes. It is the heads of the companies, not the workers screwing up. It would affect millions

Also, what is with the Firebird link?
that is gm's fault, if they wanted to keep there business they should have created some hybrid and electric models to see them through the times
io sono tifoso is offline  
post #10 of 29 Old 03-24-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by io sono tifoso View Post
that is gm's fault, if they wanted to keep there business they should have created some hybrid and electric models to see them through the times
Well GM's lineup gets better gas mileage cumulatively than any other car company including those with many Hybrids. That is not the reason GM is doing bad.

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
post #11 of 29 Old 03-25-2009, 05:39 PM
 
io sono tifoso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: florida, palmetto-bradenton
Ferrari Life Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishawk4 View Post
Well GM's lineup gets better gas mileage cumulatively than any other car company including those with many Hybrids. That is not the reason GM is doing bad.
well than what is the reason? i can't really seem to pinpoint it if that isn't it
io sono tifoso is offline  
post #12 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 02:10 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by io sono tifoso View Post
well than what is the reason? i can't really seem to pinpoint it if that isn't it
Look at post number 6. It is no mystery. Its manufacturing costs, legacy and otherwise.

This world runs on oil. It will continue to run on oil. Battery powered cars are marketing gimicks. Dreams. Not realistic for modern everday use. The battery bs has been hyped for decades and the cars still go about 50 miles between a charge.

Not to mention, the batteries eventually have to be disposed of and they are toxic. Further, the electricity for a re-charge does not come for free. Electricity comes from coal burning plants, since we no have nuclear plant grown, that takes us right back to fossil fuel. So, in the end, just how alternative is an alternative fuel vehicle?

Hugging trees will just give you a rash. No matter what you are told, no wind-mill or battery pack or solar panel is prepared to compete with a gas/diesel engine.

Last edited by wjgesq; 03-26-2009 at 02:15 AM. Reason: go for no
wjgesq is offline  
post #13 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by io sono tifoso View Post
well than what is the reason? i can't really seem to pinpoint it if that isn't it
The quality, looks, and competitiveness of the companies. Also, GM is producing way to many cars, especially with the downfall of the economy.

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
post #14 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 12:50 PM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,928
I've only just picked up on this thread, but here's the view point from a non American.

It's not just the US car makers who are in trouble, it's all car makers. Here in the UK Nissan have laid off half of the workforce, Honda have shut down their plant in Swindon for 4 months, Toyota have put everyone on short time, Peugeot and BMW (Mini) have suspended production, Ford and Vauxhall (GM) are in trouble too. Jaguar, Land Rover, Bentley, Aston are all feeling the pinch too.

It's the same story all over Europe and no doubt in Japan and Korea too. No one is buying new cars, because the finance to buy them is harder to get, and for those who can get finance, they aren't buying because they are worried they might lose their job and will fall behind with the repayments.

As much as I dislike American cars and 10 ton pick up trucks that do 10 MPG, the sad plight of the US car makers is nothing to do them making the wrong cars. I would love to say it was because American cars are crap, but it isn't. It is a sad reflection of the worldwide economy. In Europe most of our new cars do 50 MPG because they run on eco petrol engines or diesel, but no one is buying them either.

I don't like the cars GM, Ford or Chrysler make, but I would hate to see them fall because it has wider repercusions for all of us.

Archie
archiegibbs is offline  
post #15 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Ferrari Life Posts: 30
Also Ford, Chrysler and GM invested too heavily in SUVs/large trucks in the late 90s early 2000s. Now a large portion of their factories only produce these vehicles, and now they don't have the resources/money to retool them and meet market demands. This is what a large portion of the bailout money is going to.

As far as new car sales go, the industry is seeing 50% less sales than this time last year. That includes Toyota, Honda, etc. Everybody's hurting.

It certainly doesn't have to do with bad cars. Just look at the 2009 CTS-V or the ZR-1.
thatoneguy is offline  
post #16 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 06:40 PM
 
SFssft1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Ferrari Life Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo65 View Post
wasted tax dollars and another I told you so for THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION which I think is absolutely clueless and is making total jackasses of themselves.
+1

Well said Lambo65.

I can't believe I work for this idiot now

OIF 1, OEF 3, and OIF 8 veteran
SFssft1911 is offline  
post #17 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 07:12 PM
 
SFssft1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Ferrari Life Posts: 39
The investment into larger trucks and SUV's was a response to the consumer. For nearly a decade plus those vehicles have sold very, very well and still do in my part of the country, truck country that is, referring to the south eastern states. However at some point our economy began to struggle with oil prices due to our involvment in the middle east. Because of this many American's hoisted themselves into "panic mode" and changed their tone towards these vehicles. Which was not necessary. Another factor that many people don't take into consideration is how much windshield time are you getting on your commute. As I drive around town I see many people who make a commute in excess of 30 miles one way a day. Why not live closer or work closer? This has snowballed into the real estate market and so on to the stock market. It's crazy to think what can happen when people begin to panic...oh...wait...we're there now Obviously there are many other factors that were in place to put us in this position but the solution isn't to just allow failure...is it? I think not.

Shawn

PS I might go out and buy a new truck this weekend who knows maybe a 09' Ford F150 FX4 CrewCab. Sorry GM and Dodge

OIF 1, OEF 3, and OIF 8 veteran
SFssft1911 is offline  
post #18 of 29 Old 03-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Administrator
Elite Member
 
Andrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,320
GM only has themselves to blame for the spot they are in. They should file bankruptcy and break the unions once and for all. Union workers were getting $70/hr on the line! Toyota pays around $50. $50 hr x 2080 = $104,000 before tax. That puts you in a pretty nice tax bracket.
Andrew is offline  
post #19 of 29 Old 04-11-2009, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
 
dpironi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: At my Apple IIc
Ferrari Life Posts: 38
Quote:
It certainly doesn't have to do with bad cars. Just look at the 2009 CTS-V or the ZR-1.
The CTS recently picked up the Motor Trend car of the year title, and even though that accolade doesn't mean as much as it used to, it does at least mean the CTS isn't a dog like the Caddy Cimarron of a generation ago. File chapter 11, drop the legacy costs and let the good times roll again.

Say what you like about Chrysler, but they had some great history and it's pretty cold to leave it up to Fiat to buy them (that's not really gonna happen). Just a few years ago everyone was buying PT Cruisers and they had to put a third shift on to keep up with demand. Obama will go down in history as the president that killed the Hemi.

dpironi is offline  
post #20 of 29 Old 04-11-2009, 04:43 PM
 
Chrishawk4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,874
How exactly did Obama kill the Hemi?

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.-Anatole France
"Dude, it's just math"-Pete
Chrishawk4 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale