Bush won as far as I think. - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 55 Old 09-30-2004, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Bush won as far as I think.

As a non-democrat and a non-republican, I am going to vote for Bush. He understands the war on my country. It must be won. I also care not for the vote of approval from France or Germany. The U. S. of A. is not their lackey.

8)

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post #2 of 55 Old 09-30-2004, 10:34 PM
 
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I got no opinion on weather Bush or Kerry is best, I'm a dutchman, so I take everything as it is... ...a president is nothing but a symbol, the people behind him make the real decisions.

Just looking at my own goverment, we got a democracy for 5 minutes... ...while voting. After that we all got nothing to say!
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post #3 of 55 Old 10-01-2004, 03:28 AM
 
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Bart, is the war your only criteria to vote for a president? You don't care about the social security system (Pensions etc) or environment or education?
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post #4 of 55 Old 10-01-2004, 05:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. Bob
Bart, is the war your only criteria to vote for a president? You don't care about the social security system (Pensions etc) or environment or education?
:-? Do goverment care about these things...? :wink:
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post #5 of 55 Old 10-01-2004, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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If a war is lost everything else is meaningless.

First, win the war and then talk of peace.

8)

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post #6 of 55 Old 10-01-2004, 08:20 PM
 
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Why are we sending people to kill people, to show that killing people is wrong?

Do you think God stays in Heaven because she is afraid of what she sees down here?

Owner and Operator of a 2000 Jeep Wrangler. A few mods here and there... but just you wait and see what I have in store for her...
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post #7 of 55 Old 10-01-2004, 11:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
If a war is lost everything else is meaningless.

First, win the war and then talk of peace.
So when do you guys win the war? When you have banned terrorism from this world? My friend, if that is the case, your country will be in war for the rest of it's life. What is the exact goal of this war anyway? And when is is won or lost? And please remember this: With a war you do not earn respect, but you create fear. And fear is not a good fundament for a relationship with other countries/people.
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post #8 of 55 Old 10-02-2004, 08:45 AM
 
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Oh my god... if you think that Bush won this one... then you are too misguided. Although it wasn't a political landslide, Kerry won this one easily. And by the way... what's up with the endless repeating of the issues? Six or seven times a debate I get to hear that Bush "Will eliminate the terrorist threat" which first is a stupid thing to say cos it will never happen and second I remember a certain guy in Germany around the 1930's who kind of did the same. Over and over again telling people that a certain group of other people should be gassed.

A true demagogue (spelling... I'm dutch and that's one of the few words I don't know) indeed. Both of them by the way.

You americans should see a debate during the Dutch campaigns. Now THOSE are fun. There's a table with 7 people around it (all the leaders of the biggest political parties) and they just discuss stuff with each other. Reacting to each other. Not this "2 minutes answer, 90 second rebuttal" crap. This wasn't a debate... this was Q&A !!!!

They could have done that at a website
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post #9 of 55 Old 10-02-2004, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360 Spyder
Why are we sending people to kill people, to show that killing people is wrong?
Is that really what the United States is doing?

I think the world needs to realize the threat terrorism poses to all. Remember your literature "no man is an island." We are all in this together. What happens in Iraq, whether you agree with it or not, will have an effect on us. So which do you want it to be? Positive or negative? Can it really be one or the other?

So if it could be one of the other then I'm assuming most would agree at this juncture it is a huge negative if the world ignores Iraq and everyone pulls out.

Also it should be noted that the United States is actually fighting non-Iraqis now, not Iraqis. al Sadar is Jordanian, there are 1000s of foreigners from all the Middle East nations that poured into Iraq to fight the United States.

So that leads me to ask this question:

Why do these individuals not want to see Iraq become peaceful? Are these fighters helping or hurting the Iraqis?
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post #10 of 55 Old 10-03-2004, 12:40 AM
 
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Well, they see you as invaders of a country. And since America isn't that popular in those areas, I'm not suprised they want to fight you. You can't just say to people that your way is the best. You guys think so, but they just see you as the people who started a war with their country. I'm sorry, but starting a war is not the best way to convince people of your ideas. Because you create fear, not respect.
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post #11 of 55 Old 10-03-2004, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bob
Well, they see you as invaders of a country. And since America isn't that popular in those areas, I'm not suprised they want to fight you. You can't just say to people that your way is the best. You guys think so, but they just see you as the people who started a war with their country. I'm sorry, but starting a war is not the best way to convince people of your ideas. Because you create fear, not respect.
Totally dodged the questions. Let me re-write them.

Why do these individuals not want to see Iraq become peaceful? Are these fighters helping or hurting the Iraqis?
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post #12 of 55 Old 10-03-2004, 03:03 PM
 
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I am right now looking at a dutch tv-show about Bush-Kerry.

Kerry said that Bush attacked Iraq because of the weapons of mass destruction (MWD) and NOT because of Saddam. Bush answered that Kerry told the world in 2002 that Saddam is indeed a threat. That wasn't what Kerry was talking about. He was talking about the fact that Bush misled the American people. Talk about evading questions...

And by the way... The New York Times reported today that the Bush administration knew for years that there are no MWD's in Iraq. I don't know if that is true... but I tend to believe that report.
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post #13 of 55 Old 10-03-2004, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
Why do these individuals not want to see Iraq become peaceful?
I think they want, but not the way it happens now. How do you explain that you bring peace, if you start to throw bombs? The fact Saddam was sitting there was because America let him.
The whole war against terrorism started against Bin Laden, against the Taliban in Afganistan. The Taliban is still in Afganistan, and people did not really benefit of that war.
And first, the war started to remove the weapons of mass destruction, not to remove Saddam. What happens is that now the whole campain is turned around and now it is about the peace in Iraq. You started a war because of your own safety, not of the Iraque people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
Are these fighters helping or hurting the Iraqis?
They are not helping them, I agree, but still, you guys started a war. You guys started a WAR! And then you complain that you have enemies? I can't even call that naieve (sp), I call that just plain stupid.
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post #14 of 55 Old 10-03-2004, 03:31 PM
 
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YEAH !!! Just what Bob said. For once I agree with him. Bush is a bloody idiot. Remember '39-'45 ?? The germans STARTED a war... and they lost it. Vietnam was started by the french... the vietnamese won. Lucifer started a war in heaven and lost (At least... if you believe in all that bible stuff). I'm beginning to see a trend here....
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post #15 of 55 Old 10-04-2004, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bob
The fact Saddam was sitting there was because America let him.
I guess no matter what the U.S. does you'll disagree with them. So I guess the U.S. should just pull all their military from around the world back home and let the wars happen. No more peace missions, no more foreign aid, nothing, just be selfish.

Actually Saddam killed the leader of Iraq to gain power and the U.S. had nothing to do with that. Yes the U.S. helped him against Iran, but they also helped Iran at the same time.
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The whole war against terrorism started against Bin Laden, against the Taliban in Afganistan. The Taliban is still in Afganistan, and people did not really benefit of that war.
Well I happen do know two people that have been there. One to fly planes the other as an aid worker for a major NGO. According to her (and she has been there over 30 times) it is better. AND SHE IS NOT AMERICAN! Furthermore, 10,000,000+ people registerd to vote. Yeah, they don't want to be free...NOT. Oh and lets see, WOMEN CAN NOW GO TO SCHOOL!!!! (not under the Taliban...it was forbidden) HOLY SHIT THAT IS SO BAD WTF IS THE U.S. DOING ALLOWING WOMEN TO GO TO SCHOOL, KILL AMERICA, SO EVIL FOR ALLOWING WOMEN TO BE EDUCATED. A company here in Emeryville (Leapfrog) recently sent 1,000s of their books for Afghan women to learn about raising children, health and other things:
http://www.leapfrog.com/do/findpage?pageKey=press

OH how terrible AGAIN. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. What an awful nation to have the guts to do this. We should all boycott Leap Frog for this atrocity.
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And first, the war started to remove the weapons of mass destruction, not to remove Saddam. What happens is that now the whole campain is turned around and now it is about the peace in Iraq. You started a war because of your own safety, not of the Iraque people.
Did you hear George Bush's speach prior to invading Iraq that was given in the Oval Office? Probably not, you are just spouting what you've read in the newspaper. I happened to hear the whole thing. And at one point he did say we (referring to the United States and 42 other nations help) are coming to free you (referring to the Iraqis). I guess you missed this?

..."Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near....."

Sounds like he wanted to go for OTHER REASON TOO. WOW, NO SPIN THERE. YES WMD WAS A MAJOR REASON, BUT NOT...BUT NOT THE ONLY REASON Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030317-7.html

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They are not helping them, I agree, but still, you guys started a war. You guys started a WAR! And then you complain that you have enemies? I can't even call that naieve (sp), I call that just plain stupid.
Well I'm glad you agree terrorist from other nations are not helping. I'm not saying, "oh my god we have enemies now?" What I'm saying is, "WAKE UP WORLD AND HELP" Why? Because what happens in Iraq effects US ALL. And a safe and stable Iraq is good for the world, EVEN THE PEOPLE IN EUROPE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basosz
That wasn't what Kerry was talking about. He was talking about the fact that Bush misled the American people. Talk about evading questions...
It is an election year. Both parties are going to throw mud, you should know that. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, you should be smart enough to know that. I would be willing to bet that many in the Dutch government in charge of intel thought Sadam had weapons. Bush had never been to Iraq to view the weapons, doesn't anyone realize he [the president] is often just a puppet for TV? DO YOU REALLY THINK BALKENENDE, ZALM or DE GRAAF had or have time to analize 10,000s of documents that the Dutch government has about XYZ? Probably not. I'm guessing someone else [100s of people] does, then writes a report, then they (Dutch leaders) read it and make a decision.

I think we should all agree on this. None of us have been to Iraq and therefore CANNOT make a totally sound assessment of the situation in Iraq. We are getting it via a biased media (which ever that maybe).
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post #16 of 55 Old 10-05-2004, 06:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
It is an election year. Both parties are going to throw mud, you should know that. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, you should be smart enough to know that.
In the USA, the election is indeed about throwing mud. You made a national sport of it. Whatever happened to endorsing your own political agenda?? A candidate should give shit about what the other guy did ten years ago. Mud throwing is so childish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
I would be willing to bet that many in the Dutch government in charge of intel thought Sadam had weapons. Bush had never been to Iraq to view the weapons, doesn't anyone realize he [the president] is often just a puppet for TV? DO YOU REALLY THINK BALKENENDE, ZALM or DE GRAAF had or have time to analize 10,000s of documents that the Dutch government has about XYZ? Probably not. I'm guessing someone else [100s of people] does, then writes a report, then they (Dutch leaders) read it and make a decision.
I would not know if the dutch leaders knew or knew not about possible weapons of mass destruction. Does it matter?? The american president started a bloody war. That's something really different from establishing a peace mission under the authority of the UN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
I think we should all agree on this. None of us have been to Iraq and therefore CANNOT make a totally sound assessment of the situation in Iraq. We are getting it via a biased media (which ever that maybe).
I can make my own observations from the number of terrorist attacks on coalition troops that happen right now in Iraq thank you very much. And who are you to say that the media is biased? A good reporter always tries to find the truth. And if CNN tells me that there are more than a thousand deaths AFTER the war... then I tend to believe them. If the New York Times tells me that the Bush-administration knew that the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was unreal... then I tend to believe them.

So... in my opinion... Bush is a war-mongering FOOL !!!!
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post #17 of 55 Old 10-06-2004, 11:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basosz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo250GTO
I would be willing to bet that many in the Dutch government in charge of intel thought Sadam had weapons. Bush had never been to Iraq to view the weapons, doesn't anyone realize he [the president] is often just a puppet for TV? DO YOU REALLY THINK BALKENENDE, ZALM or DE GRAAF had or have time to analize 10,000s of documents that the Dutch government has about XYZ? Probably not. I'm guessing someone else [100s of people] does, then writes a report, then they (Dutch leaders) read it and make a decision.
I would not know if the dutch leaders knew or knew not about possible weapons of mass destruction. Does it matter?? The american president started a bloody war. That's something really different from establishing a peace mission under the authority of the UN.
like i told you once before andrew, the UN was in the country and looking into the fact IF there where weapons or not present, or IF he had the means to produce them or not, all the current findings before the war showed that there where no weapons or factory's, the UN had forbidden the US to attack while they where still investigating, Bush didn't care and attacked anyway while the UN inspectors where still in the country.
and now "after" the war, there are still no signs of weapons or factory's, but people are still getting killed and a lot of those are US troops, boys that don't deserve to die there especially since they shouldn't even be there
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post #18 of 55 Old 10-12-2004, 11:13 AM
 
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I think this war was ment to be. Bush attacked because we got attacked on 9/11. If he did not do anything the enemy would think "we got away with that so lets try again." People just don't understand the war. Kerry hates the war so why would you want him to be President? As you can tell. I vote for bush if I could vote! Bush is not the best president of all time but he is good for this time and that is all that matters. HE is the right over Kerry but people hate him because he is a christian. And whoever says there a christian, catholic, etc. But says I don't let my religion come in the way of my presidentsy is not who they say they are. Kerry is like that so he has NO religion or does not respect his religion if he says that. Bush prays for his country and prays for everthing he decides. Thats why he is so calm about the election because he does not care if he wins or not. He knows that God is in control of what gos on. That makes him a very wonderful man.
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post #19 of 55 Old 10-12-2004, 12:19 PM
 
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Sadam wasn't responsible for 9/11
and Kerry is a military guy that saw action in wars, so he knows what he is talking about when he says that he doesn't like wars and that he preffers not to go to war, unlike Bush who avoided going into the military while he was drafted.
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post #20 of 55 Old 10-12-2004, 12:54 PM
 
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But Enzo_Ferrari, you don't see the point
It's great that Saddam is no longer in power
BUT, he was not the cause of 9/11
We should be focusing on getting Osama and fighting Al Qaeda
They were the cause of 9/11
That is why, I believe, that Bush will not win this election
That being said, we must stay in this war, no matter how you feel about it
The troops there need everybody's (at least Americans) support.
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