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View Poll Results: A) Whistleblower B)Spy
A 7 87.50%
B 1 12.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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Debating Chamber

“In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.”


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1st Debate



Edward Snowden >>>> WHISTLEBLOWER or SPY?


Wikipedia: >>>

Edward Joseph Snowden (born June 21, 1983) is an American former technical contractor for the United States National Security Agency (NSA) and a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who leaked details of several top-secret U.S. and British government mass surveillance programs to the press.
Snowden leaked the information, primarily to Glenn Greenwald of London's The Guardian, in spring 2013 while employed as an "infrastructure analyst" at NSA contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. The Guardian in turn published a series of exposés in June 2013 and revealed programs such as the interception of US and European telephone metadata and thePRISM and Tempora Internet surveillance programs. Snowden said the leaks were an effort "to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them." Snowden's leaks are said to rank among the most significant breaches in the history of the NSA.
On June 14, 2013, U.S. federal prosecutors charged Snowden with espionage and theft of government property.
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7 day duration...If you have an idea/suggestion for next debate ( if 1st is successful ) pm me.
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Last edited by hotthreesixty; 07-11-2013 at 01:48 AM. Reason: update
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post #2 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Guess I better kick off the debate with some initial thoughts.
The dilemma I`ve got to be honest put`s me on the fence somewhat at the moment. ( Should have had an undecided option ) On the one hand the guy could be construed as some sort of hero for transparency ( the current buzz word ) re: big brother, but on the other hand the last thing I`d want is some innocent losing their life as a result.
Ok no doubt the person signed the official secrets act? but is espionage, spying etc the correct charge? Some quarters are even seeking the death sentence?
No doubt I`ll interact further later.
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post #3 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 02:57 PM
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If he's a hero, why did he (feel the need) to flee the US and head to Russia, China, HK or wherever? Whatever his motives, his actions say something other than just doing the greater good...And lastly, did he really tell anyone anything that we really didn't already know?

I'm not sure what he is, but hero isn't the word that comes to mind.
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post #4 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
If he's a hero, why did he (feel the need) to flee the US and head to Russia, China, HK or wherever? Whatever his motives, his actions say something other than just doing the greater good...And lastly, did he really tell anyone anything that we really didn't already know?

I'm not sure what he is, but hero isn't the word that comes to mind.
I think the reason Snowden fled the US is obvious. He chose Russia and China because he knew that they wouldn't just hand him over. It's a "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of situation.

Everyone with a functioning brain knew this was happening of course. It's just that most of America doesn't have one anymore.

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post #5 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 08:10 PM
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Before you vote, watching the video interview done in early June should be mandatory. Be informed, then decide.

Part 1:
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

Part 2:
Edward Snowden: 'The US government will say I aided our enemies'
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 12:04 AM
 
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What amazes me is the that the government has actually managed to turn him into a villain. How could anyone actually think he is a spy? I don't want to think people are really that blind.

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post #7 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
And lastly, did he really tell anyone anything that we really didn't already know?
If this is the case then why is he currently the `most wanted` man on the planet? His revelations so far have already caused global diplomatic spats & his can of worms have only just opened by all accounts.
I`ve watched the BBC, RT & AL JAZEERA news for years & don`t ever remember any of these scandals mentioned in any broadcast?
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post #8 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 05:50 AM
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not only a whistleblower but a true american hero. In any event, there is nothing really new here. all of these stories are old. Anyone watching the news knew that the NSA was tapping the main pipes that all internet traffic goes through. Hell, i remember debating this on fagchat years ago. For those that wonder why he split the US-well look at what we have done to our liberties. Prime example.



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post #9 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 05:52 AM
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One suggestion though, This and subsequent threads would probably be better posted in the politics section.



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post #10 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
One suggestion though, This and subsequent threads would probably be better posted in the politics section.
Is that in the elite members section? ( to which I have not subscribed )
Even though the 1st debate is of a political nature, subsequent debates may not be.
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hotthreesixty View Post
Is that in the elite members section? ( to which I have not subscribed )
Even though the 1st debate is of a political nature, subsequent debates may not be.
It's part of the Driver's Lounge but you have to add it manually. You can do this in the Forum Settings - Networking - Group Memberships. There's the Backroom Lounge as well but you may add one at a time, you have to add them after each other to get both displayed.

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 09:11 AM
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+1, SPOT ON

Everyone with a functioning brain knew this was happening of course. It's just that most of America doesn't have one anymore.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GranTurismo View Post
It's part of the Driver's Lounge but you have to add it manually. You can do this in the Forum Settings - Networking - Group Memberships. There's the Backroom Lounge as well but you may add one at a time, you have to add them after each other to get both displayed.
Thanks
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-09-2013, 09:26 AM
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A. We'll (the American public) never know the whole truth as to the amount of info he has given our enemies.

B. Whatever info he has made public that people are grateful for was pretty well known to all but the blind.

C. His motives to me are indicated more by how he has gone about this than what little we have been told. Patriots don't run to our enemies for protection.


In my Presidency I would be chummy enough with Bebe that a phone call to him would result in Snowden being found sleeping on a bus stop bench with a pair of .22 holes in the back of his head.

Last edited by Brian; 07-09-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-10-2013, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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closed

Debate closed after 26 hours due to lack of interest....

Thanks to the 5 from 171 viewers that could even be bothered to vote...


Any member who wishes to post a new debate, feel free to use this thread

Last edited by hotthreesixty; 07-11-2013 at 01:50 AM.
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-11-2013, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
One suggestion though, This and subsequent threads would probably be better posted in the politics section.
There`s only been 1 post in that section in the last 6 months??
The `Carlsberg Complaints Dept.` phone has seen more activity >>>>
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-11-2013, 04:58 AM
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Now if the debate was about that cows piss they call Carlsberg.... then we would have a debate from me!
But a whistle blower that's told us what we already knew even if we did not want to admit it to ourselves not that impressive...
I did however send this email to them last week:

Dear GCHQ & NSA, I watched this great video on pornhub about a year ago - can I find it? Can I Hell! Can you guys have a quick look at my searches and send me the URL?


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post #18 of 20 Old 07-11-2013, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Habsy View Post
Now if the debate was about that cows piss they call Carlsberg.... then we would have a debate from me!


Why don`t you start one??
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post #19 of 20 Old 07-15-2013, 07:52 PM
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My suspicion is that he was selling secrets to the Russians or Chinese to begin with and his handlers found it more useful to have him go public with this one. Think about it, what better way to draw outrage? If the Russians/Chinese had published this no one would have cared or even believed it. Much better for them to have it published by an American. This way they can wash thier hands of the whole thing

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post #20 of 20 Old 07-16-2013, 12:04 PM
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