412GT 5-speed for sale - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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412GT 5-speed for sale

Six cars, two garage spaces, insufficient time to attend to the duty of driving all of them sufficiently often so, after agonizing long have decided to part with this wonderful and grossly underappreciated car. Platinum 'Best-in-Show 2+2 at Cavallino Classic and multiple platinum awards in Ferrari Club of America National Concours. Presently being fully serviced by John Tirrell's Independent Ferrari Service. Text and photos on the "Buy & Sell" pages. also offering the Maserati Spyder. email via PM.

Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris

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post #2 of 21 Old 10-26-2013, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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revised 412GT offer

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Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
Six cars, two garage spaces, insufficient time to attend to the duty of driving all of them sufficiently often. Text and photos on the "Buy & Sell".

1987 412GT ser #74099; blu chiaro/beige. 37,510 km/approx 23,400miles, 5-speed manual. Owned since 2007. Car is well-known in Ferrari Club ofAmerica, New England Region. Best in Show 2+2 at Cavallino Classic and severalplatinum awards at FCA National Meets. The 412 is the last Ferrari with the final version of Ferrari's legendary Colombo 60 degree V-12 Ferrari engine and one of Ferrari's and Pininfarina's finest designs ever. Peter Stevens, chief designer at Lotus, called the 400/412 series "the most beautiful production car of all time". Total production was 576 units. The 412 factory brochure describes the automatic transmission as standard and refers to the manual transmission: "on request 5-speedmechanic gear box", thus special order. It is said that 75% were furnished with the GM automatic truck transmission. Fewer than 150 5-speed 412's were produced and since the 412 was not U.S.-homologated only a handful of 'graymarket' 5-speed manual cars were brought to the U.S. making it exceptionally rare here. Car is in outstanding condition and has just completed full service by John Tirrell's Independent Ferrari Service, new factory exhaust system installed and two new Michelin TRX tires to front wheels, rear with fewer than 2,000 miles. Custom-fitted car cover. I have tools though not the full original tool kit. Cavallino Classic trophy for 'Best-in-show 2+2', original 412 factory brochure, owner's manual in CD form and a large framed photo-poster that is the center-fold photo in the factorybrochure. All stay with the car. Last photo is from Saratoga Automobile Museum's Fall Ferrari Festival road rally/tour. $69,500.US. contact by PM
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Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris

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post #3 of 21 Old 10-26-2013, 01:31 PM
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Seth- Finally decided she needed a new home? If you cannot drive her or store her, probably a good idea.

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post #4 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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Seth- Finally decided she needed a new home? If you cannot drive her or store her, probably a good idea.
Si! Terry; I can store her, along with the 575, 355, Maserati Spyder, STS-V and daily driver CTS, though it's a colossal bore, hither and thither. But no way can I drive them all sufficiently. I've also finally settled on offering the 355, a fabulous car, unique color - blu scuro micalizzato - Peter Kalikow was its owner from new. - really a race car for the road with Fiorano brakes, Challenge exhaust and upgraded engine ECU, razor-sharp handling. But despite having raced a TR3 and a Porsche many years ago, at age 82 I no longer track my cars seriously. So someone is going to have and enjoy a magnificent car that will one day be a real collector's item. In fact that last remark applies to both the 412 and the 355.

Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

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post #5 of 21 Old 10-28-2013, 05:55 AM
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Seth, that is an elegant car, and it is manual ! Gosh.

w/ smiles

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post #6 of 21 Old 12-02-2013, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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good decision, bad decisions!

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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS View Post
Seth, that is an elegant car, and it is manual ! Gosh. Jimmy


I now have had inquiries from three buyers interested in the 412 and now have this issue and a resulting question: last summer I saw a fully restored 5-speed 412 - argento/black I recollect - in Germany offered at 70,000 euros ($95,000. at the time) and later sold; and just recently - and currently on offer - a blue sera/crema 5-speed at a London dealer, at 79,000 pounds ($126,000.), the latter a 1986 with under 6200 miles, thus clearly requiring a great deal of attention, said to have been carried out, to be certain all issues - and there must have been a myriad - have been addressed. So perhaps the market is beginning to recognize the value in these splendid 5-speed cars, properly driven and cared for.

What ought to be my selling price? (with a desirable car I typically do not have an asking price - when an inquirer asked last year what was my asking price for my 355, I replied that I do not have an asking price, only a selling price and told him the price at which my car could be bought. And don't bother your head about what to offer.



So my question to you, my FL friends and colleagues: what ought to be the selling price, given that I would like to sell but certainly do not need to sell?

Reminds me of a colloquy I had in about 1980 with Tom Parker, a couple of years after I had bought my old 330/365GTC prototipi from Luigi Chinetti from whom Tom had in the interim bought Chinetti International. He wanted to buy back the GTC. Told him it wasn't for sale, that it was m y first Ferrari, the one Ferrari I had always dreamed about and a car that I thought the Executor of my Estate - might it be many decades in the future - would be selling some very remote day. Tom persisted and said he really wanted the car and would I name a price, this at a time when the best GTC in the world might have fetched $30-40,000. Weeks later when I was visiting the store he persisted in demanding a price I would accept and I finally said 'okay, Tom, if it's so important to you, you can have the car for a quarter million dollars". He said, "Seth, you're out of your mind, the car's not worth nearly that". I replied: "Tom, I agree entirely; in today's market, to you it surely isn't, but it isn't worth less than that for me to let it go". Then came what may have been the worst business decision of my life: he offered to swap for my GTC and $10,000. a pristine 1967 275GTB4. And I turned him down.

But what was it worth to have my car in the Petersen Museum's 'Ferrari at Fifty' Exhibition in 1997, to be at the opening reception (at which the 550 Maranello was introduced to North America) and to meet Sergio Pininfarina and Piero Ferrari who told me as we walked to my car for the photo below that the 330GTC was one of his three favorite Ferraris and the first one that his father let him drive when he was 17?
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Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris

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post #7 of 21 Old 12-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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Seth- Note your prototype 365 has the very rare early Daytona wheels on her. Those were only on the very early Daytonas and some 365 GTCs and 2+2s. Not sure if any of the 330s came with those wheels.

Taz
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post #8 of 21 Old 12-02-2013, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Seth- Note your prototype 365 has the very rare early Daytona wheels on her. Those were only on the very early Daytonas and some 365 GTCs and 2+2s. Not sure if any of the 330s came with those wheels.

Taz, yes, they are pretty rare. as in unique in the correct sense of the word! Actually these wheels are THE original prototype wheels for all subsequent 5-star mag wheels including of course those for the Daytona that was a couple of years in the future. Leopoldo Pirelli, Chairman and CEO of Pirelli S.p.A., ordered the car directly from Enzo which is how he got the Typ 245 4.4 liter engine installed in this 330 and then commissioned these wheels from Campagnolo, who hand forged them. I have my own personal correspondence with Sr Pirelli to confirm the car's provenance and history. Also copies of the factory build sheets for the car that was laid down in October 1967, fairly late in 330 production. Ser # is 10581. Interestingly, they are 15" wheels whereas all GTCs, 330 and 365, were furnished with 14" wheels, whether Borranis or the alloy wheels with the small square slots.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

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post #9 of 21 Old 12-02-2013, 04:41 PM
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Seth, such beautiful collections of exquisite taste. Indeed, it it sad to have to let go. I have had my few experiences of having to sell cars and it is a mixed feeling, to say the least, when a buyer makes and offer that is not very pleasant. I suppose there is an inherent gap between a seller and buyer.

I would refrain from quoting any figures, but suffice to say that you are in a position to
wait for the right buyer who appreciates your collection and who understands the value. Too often, the only concerns are prices lacking deeper virtues.

Would be thrilled to see your cars and hear the stories behind them.

w/ smiles

Jimmy
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-02-2013, 04:56 PM
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Seth, what a wonderful car and great stories
I think Jimmy summed it up nicely
I can't begin to put a fair price on such a emotion evoking car
The memories and stories alone are priceless

If I only had the deep pockets of Jay Leno...
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 01:38 AM
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Geeez, maybe I ought to buy your car, now that I lack a V12 !!!

Maybe Terry can offer to look after the car too !

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post #12 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 06:19 AM
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Nice 365 manual on sale here:

Used 1973 Ferrari 365 for sale in Kent | Pistonheads

at £40K, so not far different from what you are asking.

Best wishes, John
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360 Modena View Post
Seth, what a wonderful car and great stories
I think Jimmy summed it up nicely I can't begin to put a fair price on such a emotion evoking car
The memories and stories alone are priceless

If I only had the deep pockets of Jay Leno...


yes, me too, 360! if I did, I'd have built a temperature-humidity controlled garage for mebbe a dozen cars and would have been the winning bidder for the World-Championship-winning 1955 F1 Mercedes-Benz W196 car recently auctioned!

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

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post #14 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS View Post
Geeez, maybe I ought to buy your car, now that I lack a V12 !!! Maybe Terry can offer to look after the car too! w/ smiles Jimmy

Jimmy, what's that giallo fly 275 behind you, a special-engine V-8?

Seth
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

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post #15 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
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Jimmy, what's that giallo fly 275 behind you, a special-engine V-8?
Methinks he has sold it

Best wishes, John
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 09:47 AM
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Methinks he has sold it
Make that two

Yellow turned into red V8 now.

w/ smiles
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 10:15 AM
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Jimmy- Any V12 you get I would be happy to look after.

Another nice thing about Seth's 412 is it was built after Ferrari and Pininfarina started using extensive rust proofing in the 83/84 timeframe. Their process was so good, Ford licensed it for a while.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 11:19 AM
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Terry, I am in the process of selling my Porsche Turbo S Exclusive Flatnose. If this arrangement works, which most likely would, I would have a bit of free cash.

Subsequently, my interest. But then, if I take this up, shipping the car back to Japan is not very realistic for the time being. Therefore, my callous suggestion !

Am I dreaming ? Possible, but then I am somewhat irrational at times. Not sure what Seth thinks. Looks like he already has several offers.

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post #19 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Jimmy- Any V12 you get I would be happy to look after.

Another nice thing about Seth's 412 is it was built after Ferrari and Pininfarina started using extensive rust proofing in the 83/84 timeframe. Their process was so good, Ford licensed it for a while.


It was not Ferrari's process. It was a company called Dinol. They had a major presence in Detroit at one time. Do not know if that is still the case.


DINOL - Kleben - Schützen - Dichten: Home
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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Brian- Oh well, it was a good war story for a while.

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