The Red Bull team orders - opinions (spoilers) - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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The Red Bull team orders - opinions (spoilers)

Well.... today was far from good news for the Scuderia in Malaysia. Very unlucky for Alonso, and could have been a better day for Massa too.

I must admit though, that I got thoroughly caught up in both the Mercedes and especially the Red Bull internal battles and team orders. What a story in RB! Vettel ignores team orders, passes Webber and wins the race!

Personally I thought Webber displayed immense restraint, both in and out of the car. Having passed me against team orders I think that would have been sufficient for the red mist to descend and it would have been my victory or neither RB car finishing for sure. And to not let rip afterwards (cameras or no cameras) again showed a great degree of maturity.

What's everyone else's thoughts on the matter? Leaving aside the spectacle that it created, I did feel rather hard done by as a spectator. We missed out on what would have been 2 monumental battles between Hamilton & Rosberg and Webber & Vettel. I can't help think that that is the biggest injustice of all....

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post #2 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 03:04 PM
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F1 has become a joke

I realize that the team principles and engineers like Ross Braun / A. Newey, are some of the smartest men to partake in F1, but this last race was a joke., telling the drivers to conserve rather than fight !!! Its bullshit , the fans want to see as much Prost /Senna like battles as possible. Dial back the motors, conserve tires , fuel, on the very last laps ,when the teammates are so close, and the one behind may be actually faster . Same shit Ferrari was pulling with Barrachello and Shuey. At least Hamilton told the truth about Rosberg . Red Bull telling Webber/Vettel to slow, and then letting Vettel catch up , no wonder Webber looked like he wanted to punch his face in !!!. I cancelled my reservations for Texas, Ill watch it on TV, but Im not giving them any of my money . Yeh, now we will hear all the bullshit about team points. team orders "we want whats best for the team " , forget all the fans that are spending small fortunes to attend the race.Looking at these guys Braun and Newey shit their pants while their drivers are battling it out , instead of getting excited about such close wheel to wheel action, was a site to see . I dont know, just my knee jerk response after watching this disgusting show . I feel sorry for all that paid to see this crap . Like I always say , Moto GP is far better than F1 .

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post #3 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 03:16 PM
 
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I've always been a person that wants winners, I don't care about the character of the person.

Put Vettel in a Scuderia suit and let's go get some championships.

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post #4 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 05:44 PM
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Barry, I'm with you. Plus, Vettel may have been able to pass Webber because Webber believed they were already done racing.

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post #5 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 07:21 PM
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Vettel..... What a punk ass move. I agree that it is desirable to the team to be able to save a car for another race but it does dilute the sense that they are doing real racing. In fact it makes the whole thing seem staged.... Like a reality tv show.

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post #6 of 32 Old 03-24-2013, 10:57 PM
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Webber gets told to turn down the engine which he does and then Vettel takes the opportunity to pass him. Very poor, classless showing by Vettel. He should be forced to drive a Toro Rosso in the next race.
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Barry, I'm with you. Plus, Vettel may have been able to pass Webber because Webber believed they were already done racing.
I don't think there is any maybe about it. Christian Horner confirmed that they were allowed race until after the last pit stop. That final battle around turns 1-4 after Webber came out of the pits was where the real fight ended. Both drivers got the 'multi 21' radio message at that point and it was a lap later when Vettel made the (unexpected) move on Webber.

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post #8 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Webber gets told to turn down the engine which he does and then Vettel takes the opportunity to pass him. Very poor, classless showing by Vettel. He should be forced to drive a Toro Rosso in the next race.
Classless is exactly right Boxer. In fact the most classless aspect of it was Vettel's interview in the media pit for Sky Sports afterwards. He claimed to have never heard the message and that he was shocked to find out at the end of the race that he should have stayed in P2. 10 minutes later he's issuing an unreserved apology to Webber and admitting he knew and was wrong. What BS. Makes for very entertaining TV, but I must admit that my estimation of Vettel is considerably lower than it was 24 hours ago.

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post #9 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 06:05 AM
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Vettel..... What a punk ass move. I agree that it is desirable to the team to be able to save a car for another race but it does dilute the sense that they are doing real racing. In fact it makes the whole thing seem staged.... Like a reality tv show.
Violent agreement with you

Let the drivers race for racing's sake.

I hate "team orders" from anyone, including Ferrari.
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 06:13 AM
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I agree.

Let them race or hit F1 in the pocketbook.

Sorry you will cancel Texas though, but appreciate how you feel.

BTW, I have more respect for Weber showing immense restraint.

My opinion of Vettel reminds me of Schumacher's crazy antics on the racecourse (which, over time, people may have forgotten).

re: Schumacher:

His career has not been without controversy, including being twice involved in collisions in the final race of a season that determined the outcome of the world championship, with Damon Hill in 1994 in Adelaide, and with Jacques Villeneuve in 1997.

This ring a bell? I'll bet Vettel was a big Shumacher fan at one time, and maybe still is today.

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post #11 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 06:34 AM
 
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I thought Hamilton stopping in McLaren was entertaining.

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post #12 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting blog. Certainly highlights the position that Horner was put in, he comes out of the whole affair looking less than a leader...




In the media centre at Sepang on Sunday night, an air-conditioned refuge from the most stifling conditions in Formula One, former drivers and gnarled old race-watchers were on their feet, mouths gaping, as they watched the TV monitors.

It was not because Sebastian Vettel had had the effrontery to ignore team orders from Red Bull's pitwall HQ to hold his position behind Mark Webber well, OK, that was part of it but the real reason was that there was some absolutely compelling racing going on.

There is not much love lost between Vettel and his team-mate Webber but that made their duel all the more exciting. And it was a proper battle. This is what we see all too little of in F1: racing. Everyone is so concerned about conserving their fuel and looking after their tyres and following the dreaded team orders that they forget why we are really here.

Ironically, it was Webber who had complained on Friday that F1 was too much about tyres. "Tyres, tyres, tyres, tyres," he moaned, referring to Pirelli's latest version of melting rubber, brought in to increase the number of pit-stops (if we cannnot have real racing let's spice it up with tyre changes, or KERS, or DRS).

But, here on Sunday evening, we had some good old-fashioned racing, even though it took a break from convention on the part of Vettel, who ignored instructions from his team principal, Christian Horner, and decided to challenge Webber for the win, which he duly achieved.

Vettel, though, did not come out of the incident well. What he did on the track was bad enough in terms of jeopardising the team's chances but it was his shifty behaviour afterwards that will have lost him a lot of admirers. He said: "I just didn't get the message. I got it. I heard it. But obviously no action followed because I misunderstood." What does that mean? He would have come away with a lot more credit if he had told Horner on the radio: "No, Christian, I'm going for this. I'm going for the win."

Even though Red Bull got the 43 points they were after, with their 13th one-two finish, what happened has placed them in a tricky position. Horner needs to reassert his authority, show that Red Bull is not just Vettel's toy shop. When he said on the radio: "This is silly, Seb. Come on!" it did not have the sense of command the Mercedes principal, Ross Brawn, conveyed when issuing his orders to Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton in the race. Rosberg, of course, remained behind Hamilton.

Also, when Horner was asked why he did not tell Vettel to give his place back, he said: "Do you honestly think if we had told him to slow down and give the place back he'd have given it back?"

But did he try? "There's no point," Horner replied. "He'd made it quite clear what his intention was by making the move. He knew what the communication was. He chose to ignore it."

Again Horner, the best team boss out there, did not sound like a boss at all there.Is Vettel really top dog at Red Bull?

The former driver John Watson feels that Horner needs to get back in charge. He says: "If Christian Horner doesn't reassert his authority in the team - because he has been totally subjugated by Sebastian Vettel - then his position in the team is not exactly the role it is designed to be.

"Vettel should be suspended for the next grand prix. You can't take the points away from him and give them to Mark Webber that's now history and Sebastian has the benefit of those seven additional points. You can't really fine him, it is almost irrelevant to fine him, so the only purposeful way to bring him to book is to say: 'You will stand out one race.'"

But Gerhard Berger, the former McLaren and Ferrari driver, said the German was merely showing the ruthlessness of a great driver.

"To win a world championship three or four times you have to be very selfish," he said. "These boys have such a big killer instinct they cannot follow their brain and they just do what their instinct tells them. This is part of Vettel's success and nobody, no team-mate, no team chief, will change it."

But it is where the whole affair leaves Webber that is most interesting. Although he was the fall guy on this occasion not for the first time it could backfire on him rather than Vettel.

At 36 and with only a one-year contract, he may feel that his relationship with Vettel, never good since 2010 but manageable, is now so poisoned that he will walk away at the end of the year. If he does not decide to go, though, Red Bull might dispense with him anyway. Better that, they may feel, than deal with feuding team-mates.

When Vettel and Webber face off, in or out of a Formula One car, at present there is only one winner. At Red Bull, Vettel truly is the chosen one.

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post #14 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 10:42 AM
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I thought Hamilton stopping in McLaren was entertaining.
That was downright funny. I got a good chuckle out of that one.

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post #15 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 02:17 PM
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Oops

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I thought Hamilton stopping in McLaren was entertaining.
Kind of like saying the name of the ex while with the new wife!

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post #16 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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I too agree that telling Weber to slow down was not right. But at the same time you don't want both your teams multi million dollar cars to be destroyed.
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 02:23 PM
 
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Telling Weber to slow down was completely retarded.
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 04:43 PM
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I too agree that telling Weber to slow down was not right. But at the same time you don't want both your teams multi million dollar cars to be destroyed.
Thats racing, if they take each other out, big deal, thats like me breaking a toy car, all the money at their disposal. The series has been dumbed down, and its never coming back . All the bullshit FIA rules. That race was a disgrace , on the part of Merc and Red Bull. If I was Webber, I would of kicked the shit out of Vettel, and wouldnt give a fuck about the consequences !!! lol
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 04:44 PM
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I agree, how about penalizing them when they run so tight on fuel that they can't even race to the end because of that one liter BS.

One liter of fuel is not going to make that much difference in the speed of the car, I know its all about weight but come on, put enough fuel in to let them RACE.
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-25-2013, 10:24 PM
 
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Lucca,

If you haven't been to an F1 race before, it's worth it for the experience alone.
But again, what will satisfy one of the hardest riding people I know? ;-)

Ride safe and enjoy!
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