Did Brits screw up? Let's hope US doesn't - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Did Brits screw up? Let's hope US doesn't

The Second Amendment right to bear arms is a politically sensitive topic in the US now.

I found this interesting (if true, maybe some Brits can weigh in?). I'm pro 2nd Amendment, even though I don't own a gun (currently).

Just a Shotgun

You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door.
Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.

With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.

You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.

In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

One holds something that looks like a crowbar.

When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.

The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.

One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.

In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless...

Yours was never registered.

Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died.

They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.

"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.

"Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing.

"Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."

The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys.

Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them..

Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.

But the next day's headline says it all:
"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."

The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..

As the days wear on, the story takes wings.

The national media picks it up, then the international media.

The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.

Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.

The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects.

After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time.

The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

A few months later, you go to trial.

The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.

When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you..

Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man.

It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.

The judge sentences you to life in prison.

This case really happened.

On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.

In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term...

How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ?

It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.

The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns..

Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerfordmass shooting in 1987.

Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.

When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions.
(The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.
Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.
The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few side arms still owned by private citizens.

During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.

Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying,
"We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."

All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law.
The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who had handguns?
The guns had been registered and licensed.
Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?

WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

"...It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

While I don't own a gun, I'll defend the rights of others to arm themselves against the bad guys
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post #2 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 09:00 AM
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There is always two sides.

Look how many kids have been killed by finding a gun etc.

If that's the law find another weapon for protection or leave the region.

I own firearms and they are secured - the intruder guns have lasers with an extremely bright LED flashlight attached.

The idea is before I would have to use one the intruder would fully know what was about to take place just like the pump of a shot gun but far more visual.

Believe it or not Missouri - my state has more guns than any other state in the country.

The Castle Law provides an owner to use his gun inside the Castle.

Castle can be a house office car but it only allows all parties to be inside the Castle for the law to apply.

The moment anyone tries to take a gun from an American that was in full compliance is not going to end well.
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post #3 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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I agree Al.I believe they screwed up.Growing up with my father owning a gun store you can guess my position.BUT,he sold years before anyone was buying assault rifles.I stand by the second amendment staunchly.Yet I don't get the appeal of assault weapons.I have been hand loading pistol and rifle rounds since I was 12.My father was a member of the safari club and held records in many countries.WE shoot the big stuff!460,454,330,300 win mag,ect.When people show us their assault guns,it's like,that's nice but what do you do with it? Accuracy is for shit.Target shooting with one of those,you might as well use a shotgun!Those guns are for people killing,period.My son just got his second 8 point buck in 2 yrs in the Canadian rock'ies using a proper hunting rifle.Outside of the military We don't see a need for assault weapons.But to each his own.That I will stand by.
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post #4 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 11:17 AM
 
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I am also pro 2nd amendment. I believe in the right to bare arms!
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post #5 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
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The rate of violent crime in the UK is three times what it is in the US. Part of this is due to the fact that only the criminals have guns, and part of it is due to a judicial system which does not give sentences appropriate to the crimes committed.

Many UK citizens are afraid to come to the States because of the amount of gun violence we have here, little realizing it is much more dangerous in the UK and that the likelihood of being a victim of violent crime is much higher in the UK.

The shotgun example shows the difference in approaches to crime. In the US, the shotgun wielder would have been a hero to the local police for helping them get a dangerous criminal off the streets.

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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #6 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 05:19 PM
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I love a good joke ... and this one popped in my head after posting another method of security.

A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables when a voice in the dark said, 'Jesus knows you're here.'

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off, and froze. When he heard nothing more, he shook his head and continued.

Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard 'Jesus is watching you.'

Startled, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot.

'Did you say that?' he hissed at the parrot.

'Yes', the parrot confessed, then squawked, 'I'm just trying to warn you that he's watching you.'

The burglar relaxed. 'Warn me, huh? Who in the world are you?'

'Moses,' replied the bird.

'Moses?' the burglar laughed. 'What kind of people would name a bird Moses?'

'The kind of people who would name a Rottweiler Jesus.'
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post #7 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 07:21 PM
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I am a big game hunter and thus a staunch defender of the second amendment. Despite the fact that I hunt primarily with a bow and arrow I own many guns. Many of them have never been fired including several assault weapons.

Instead of hiding my guns from my children I taught them early on about life and death and the meaning of taking a life. I taught them how to handle firearms and they both have been hunters since they were 7 years old.

At my previous house, my rear neighbor's adult step son who is a schizophrenic one day decided to come after the kids. He was on the other side of the fence yelling all kinds of obscenities at the kids then when I came outside he began directing his hatred towards the four of us. Needless to say it was a horrible scene as I was confronting this crazed man. I calmly asked my youngest to bring my gun. He quickly went and retrieved it extra clips and all. When the psycho saw that we weren't backing down he quickly came to his senses and retreated. I am convinced that had I not been armed or if I would have had had to run inside the house to get my gun this man would have harmed my family or seen it as weakness on my part and become emboldened and who knows how this ends. Instead despite his disease he realized somewhere in his mind that I was the wrong candidate. The sad part of this story is not the incident. It was the aftermath that followed. The police took him to the psyche ward who could only keep him a couple of days. His mother and stepfather lived in constant fear of him and basically couldn't do anything with him because the laws cared more about his rights than theirs. Since I moved away I don't know what has happened to him but I can sadly guarantee that this individual will sooner or later go postal and someone might end up getting hurt.

With regards to the anti's, in my opinion there can be no backing down. There can be no tolerance for giving in to their demands. The moment we lose one battle we lost the war.
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post #8 of 63 Old 01-24-2013, 07:59 PM
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Here in Canada, we don't have a Second Amendment right to bear arms but we can have firearms with lots of conditions like the first one, to have a handgun or assault rifle or a restricted firearm you need to be a member of a club or else....sorry bro, no gun for you.

There are many more laws that we have. Some are stupid, some are smart. Like having a gun besides your bed.....umm NO, if it's not in a safe/locked up with ammo in a different location, you get in big trouble etc.....

So I have a 120 lbs dog to let me know someone is at the door, and to let that person know he's inside and woke me up....


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post #9 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 12:06 AM
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Tony Martin is alive and well, and at liberty having served only 3 years.

Number of gun deaths in UK
The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.
Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year took place in London, the West Midlands, Manchester or Merseyside, with swathes of the country recording no homicides, suicides or accidental deaths from firearms. One third of the victims were younger than 21 and four of them were female. The Gun Control Network, which campaigns for tougher restrictions on firearms, disclosed the figure, which was a sharp drop on 2007, when 51 gun-related deaths were recorded in England, Wales and Scotland.

Gun deaths in USA
In 2010 there were 358 murders involving rifles. Murders involving the use of pistols in the US that same year totaled 6,009, with another 1,939 murders with the firearm type unreported

So, lets do the maths - 42 deaths in a country of 60million people with strong gun control, over 8000 deaths in a country 4 times bigger with what we see as lax or no gun control. Sorry guys, its a no brainer...
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post #10 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 02:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8TDF View Post
Tony Martin is alive and well, and at liberty having served only 3 years.

Number of gun deaths in UK
The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.
Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year took place in London, the West Midlands, Manchester or Merseyside, with swathes of the country recording no homicides, suicides or accidental deaths from firearms. One third of the victims were younger than 21 and four of them were female. The Gun Control Network, which campaigns for tougher restrictions on firearms, disclosed the figure, which was a sharp drop on 2007, when 51 gun-related deaths were recorded in England, Wales and Scotland.

Gun deaths in USA
In 2010 there were 358 murders involving rifles. Murders involving the use of pistols in the US that same year totaled 6,009, with another 1,939 murders with the firearm type unreported

So, lets do the maths - 42 deaths in a country of 60million people with strong gun control, over 8000 deaths in a country 4 times bigger with what we see as lax or no gun control. Sorry guys, its a no brainer...
Agreed.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US is ranked higher than South Africa which is shocking, I've seen some of the worse neighbourhoods and heard about such murders.

For those that hate Wikipedia here's a more credible source. Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | guardian.co.uk

My Flickr Account: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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post #11 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 05:51 AM
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Like I said earlier there are always two sides.

My curiosity created a little research.

"Apples to Apples" comparison of US and UK violent crime rates - FOX19.com-Cincinnati News, Weather & Sports
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post #12 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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Like I said earlier there are always two sides.

My curiosity created a little research.

"Apples to Apples" comparison of US and UK violent crime rates - FOX19.com-Cincinnati News, Weather & Sports
So, the violent crime rate in the UK is higher than US according to FOX in their attempt to compare apples-apples.

My supposition is that if more people had training and concealed carry permits in the UK and US, it would level the "playing field" with criminals and actually reduce the violent crime rate.

Think about it logically.

Are you more or less likely to harm or rob someone not knowing if they are armed and able to defend themselves?

I don't own any guns, but I defend our citizens 2nd Amendment right. If our government takes this right away, what's next?

I feel sorry for the blokes in AUS and the UK who don't have the right to bear arms to defend themselves. Kinda reminds me of the German Jews.
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post #13 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 11:12 AM
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Affirmative, comparing gun deaths in nations that do not have guns to those that do is like comparing palm trees in California to those in the UK. What is important to me is that something really bad is likely to happen to you at three times the rate in the UK than it is in the States. Criminals have no fear because nobody is going to shoot them and, even if they are caught, justice is very lenient.

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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #14 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 11:38 AM
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Remove guns in the US and the death rate with guns will climb to 40,000 people or more per year.

The gangs and criminals in the UK are nothing compared to the US. Put the badest UK criminals in Brooklyn or the Bronks and they will disapear faster than a pizza at a weight Watchers convention....Drop them off in Cali in South Central, Compton or Inglewood and they will be begging to come back to the UK to volunteer with sick children, elderly people and abused animals.....

They don't need to send people to jail in the UK, they just need to send them to Brooklyn after dark LOL



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post #15 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
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Mario- Crime rate in NY has dropped since they started proactive police action. Too bad Chicago cannot figure out how to do that.

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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #16 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Mario- Crime rate in NY has dropped since they started proactive police action.
Explain proactive police action......


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post #17 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum6464 View Post
Remove guns in the US and the death rate with guns will climb to 40,000 people or more per year.

The gangs and criminals in the UK are nothing compared to the US. Put the badest UK criminals in Brooklyn or the Bronks and they will disapear faster than a pizza at a weight Watchers convention....Drop them off in Cali in South Central, Compton or Inglewood and they will be begging to come back to the UK to volunteer with sick children, elderly people and abused animals.....

They don't need to send people to jail in the UK, they just need to send them to Brooklyn after dark LOL



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St Louis City has been ranked in the top 3 for 15 years and in 2010 #1.

You want drop someone off and have them do the doggie paddle home we got ya covered.

The latest crime prevention was installing cameras - which worked for about 6 months then the rates went right back where they were.

Only way to stop crime is citizens working with law enforcement.

Last night on the news channel a guy went to rob a gas station carrying a gun - the clerk proceeded to put a few holes in the gut of the pos - dead at the scene.
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post #18 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 12:39 PM
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Mario- Proactive law enforcement is rousting every suspicious looking individual or group you see. Knocked the statistics way down and put a bunch of people with outstanding warrants in jail. Prevent crime instead of reacting to crime.

Taz
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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #19 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Mario- Proactive law enforcement is rousting every suspicious looking individual or group you see. Knocked the statistics way down and put a bunch of people with outstanding warrants in jail. Prevent crime instead of reacting to crime.

Kind of like Bosco stopping to piss off the local thugs on the street then checking pockets while Faith stands back to back him up....(Third Watch). I always thought that was just Hollywood.....


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post #20 of 63 Old 01-25-2013, 03:37 PM
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Mario- Nope.

Taz
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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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