McLaren MP4-12C - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 35 Old 06-15-2010, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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McLaren MP4-12C

How many think this car will be a success? Will it hurt the Ferrari 458 sales?
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post #2 of 35 Old 06-16-2010, 09:42 AM
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Ron Dennis is a perfectionist, so I think the car will be a world class. I think it will hurt Lamborghini more than Ferrari, simply based on the power of the Ferrari brand. Buying a McLaren isn't a substitute for a Ferrari, however it is for any other car. Aston Martin and Bentley buyers are looking more for luxury than sport, so it may impact them less.

Regardless, anytime a new exotic car enters the market, it takes a bite of the available buyers who demand $200,000+ sports cars out there.

Should be exciting to see. I wonder where the dealers will be located for McLaren?

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post #3 of 35 Old 06-16-2010, 09:48 AM
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Saw that at Infineon two weekends ago, and I thought it was great.

Will post the pick later.

Yes, it will be a success. THe first one blew away, almost, the stock Enzo until the racer version so this will have more in the right place.

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post #4 of 35 Old 06-16-2010, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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This will also be at the price point of the 458. I think it is going to be a serious contender for Ferrari, it also has the race history in F1 that Lamborghini does not.
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post #5 of 35 Old 06-17-2010, 02:28 PM
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+1

There is much more than good looks there and like you say provenance to the mfgr is a plus. Not to mention, hate to say it, the latest issues from Ferrari are a bit on the more mass produced side. just saying. Still like them but, McL and others seem to just want to make a mean car with out holding back.

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post #6 of 35 Old 06-17-2010, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Couldn't agree more, 20,000+ F430s and now the California, very mass produced.
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post #7 of 35 Old 06-18-2010, 05:03 AM
 
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i like the look of it, looks really nice
dows anyone know more details of the car
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post #8 of 35 Old 06-21-2010, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Decided to launch a site for McLaren owners:

McLaren Forum
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post #9 of 35 Old 06-21-2010, 03:23 PM
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I'm an owner

Quote:
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Decided to launch a site for McLaren owners:

McLaren Forum

of a picture ... do I get elite status?

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post #10 of 35 Old 06-21-2010, 10:30 PM
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Will it be a succes?? IMHO-yes
Will it hurt Ferrari sales??? No.

Market is big enough for both. Sales that will be impacted are Merc SLS, Audi R8, etc.
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post #11 of 35 Old 06-22-2010, 11:34 AM
 
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Hey guys, I haven't posted in awhile but have been lurking frequently...I'd just like to throw out there that it is still Ferrari's position that they produce fewer cars than can satisfy the market to keep their air of exclusivity. So as the market for this tier of vehicle has expanded, so have the production numbers of Ferraris. So I believe the McLaren will see some success, but won't have a drastic impact on Ferrari sales as there will always be more people out there that want one and can afford one than there will be cars available.

Although I wonder how increased production numbers will have an effect on used ferraris, depreciation, etc...

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post #12 of 35 Old 07-19-2010, 12:21 PM
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Bump

My bad. Guess the McLaren I saw was not the new one at Infineon, as it does not like Andrew's above.

Stunner anyway. I see so few of them, only twice seen before in our town, that all I remember is WOW, NICE car, and WOW 3-seater with driver in the middle: THAT has to be one circus AAAA ticket ride.

Yes, I know, terrible pictures...but at least the outer general looks appear.
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post #13 of 35 Old 07-19-2010, 07:07 PM
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That's a Mcclaren F1, v12 BMW engine. Sat in one a couple of years back, that center seat is something special :-)
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post #14 of 35 Old 07-19-2010, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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BWM or Mercedes engine?

Granucci, the new McLaren will be a traditional 2 seater, no three seats.
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post #15 of 35 Old 07-19-2010, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
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BWM or Mercedes engine?

Granucci, the new McLaren will be a traditional 2 seater, no three seats.
McLaren F1 uses a BMW supplied engine. The new MC12 uses an inhouse developed engine.
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post #16 of 35 Old 01-26-2011, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Has anyone seen this in the UK dealer(s)? Curious when this car is hitting the US. When I was visiting Toronto, Alex @ Daytona Auto mentioned they were opening a dealer just down the street from his shop.
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-26-2011, 09:11 PM
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Not as of yet. The dealership near the corner of Sloane Street and Brompton Road should be open shortly.
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post #18 of 35 Old 01-27-2011, 10:42 AM
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I had a visit to the mclaren factory a few months back to see the mp4. the attention to every detail of the factory / design and manufacturiy process was remarkable - more like a sterile laboratory than a car factory.
As i was told, the design brief was to make a better car than the (458) ferrari, and do it for less money - my take on the car and how it appeared to stack up is as follows (please forgive mistakes as memory was somewhat disturbed by christmas festivities)

Looks
There is a lot of debate about the looks of the mp4, but the 458 is just so beuatiful, I think the ferrari wins on the looks side of things

the mp4 looks better in the flesh than in the photos (especially the mclaren orange publicity shots) - there are many more subtle curves to the car that just dont show up in the phots (particularly rear wheel arches)

Performance
haven't driven either, but the mp4 has more power and weighs 200kg less than the 458. mclaren purchased one of the early 458s and put some lap times in and then took the whole car apart to make sure they hadn't missed anything. lap times (allegedly, and as per mclaren test drivers!) are well inside those for 458

technology
mp4 makes the 458 technology look 20 years old. no anti roll bars to make long journeys uncomfortable - instead mclaren has resurrected a hydraulic suspension originally invented for rally cars a few years back (and promptly banned as it was so successful) that gives flat cornering as well as comfort on the straights.
carbon tub weighing 80kg - the next cheapest car with this is a merc slr at 300k (i think)

gadgets
mp4 has indicator stalks that stay where they were when you are going around a corner -this is a very good thing, as is the ability to see your speed and satnav at the same time
scissor doors, built in bumper video camera all good fun
short overhangs - tested on the speed bumps of fulham no less!

price
the mp4 is priced at just under the 458 - this is not a coincidence

i think the mp4 moves the goalposts in terms of weight of supercars - they have been getting bigger and heavier every year - the mp4 is a shot across the bows of manufacturers like ferrai in this regard and i am sure we will see a suitable response in the next model range. for the meantime though mclaren appear to have stolen the high ground. given the brand loyalty of ferrari owners / drivers this is the very least they had to do in order to establish a reasonable demand for the car.
whether there is enough money / demand to support both cars i really don't know...
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-27-2011, 02:05 PM
 
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I think the issue McLaren has to deal with is in terms of long term support. If they are going to build a few super cars that will be scooped up and live in static collections - it is not an issue. If they want to build a car that competes with the 458 or any other Ferrari, IMO the biggest missing piece is making the market comfortable that they will be providing a long term source of parts to keep the cars on the road. The critical mass of any brand has to be sustained after the warranty is past - otherwise what is being sold is more "art" than "car". Going away from a BMW engine takes on a huge level of suport complexity if this is to be a car for driving.

tonyt - any comments from what you saw on how they see themselves supporting a car if it sold in 458-like numbers ?
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post #20 of 35 Old 01-27-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyt View Post
I had a visit to the mclaren factory a few months back to see the mp4. the attention to every detail of the factory / design and manufacturiy process was remarkable - more like a sterile laboratory than a car factory.
As i was told, the design brief was to make a better car than the (458) ferrari, and do it for less money - my take on the car and how it appeared to stack up is as follows (please forgive mistakes as memory was somewhat disturbed by christmas festivities)

Looks
There is a lot of debate about the looks of the mp4, but the 458 is just so beuatiful, I think the ferrari wins on the looks side of things

the mp4 looks better in the flesh than in the photos (especially the mclaren orange publicity shots) - there are many more subtle curves to the car that just dont show up in the phots (particularly rear wheel arches)

Performance
haven't driven either, but the mp4 has more power and weighs 200kg less than the 458. mclaren purchased one of the early 458s and put some lap times in and then took the whole car apart to make sure they hadn't missed anything. lap times (allegedly, and as per mclaren test drivers!) are well inside those for 458

technology
mp4 makes the 458 technology look 20 years old. no anti roll bars to make long journeys uncomfortable - instead mclaren has resurrected a hydraulic suspension originally invented for rally cars a few years back (and promptly banned as it was so successful) that gives flat cornering as well as comfort on the straights.
carbon tub weighing 80kg - the next cheapest car with this is a merc slr at 300k (i think)

gadgets
mp4 has indicator stalks that stay where they were when you are going around a corner -this is a very good thing, as is the ability to see your speed and satnav at the same time
scissor doors, built in bumper video camera all good fun
short overhangs - tested on the speed bumps of fulham no less!

price
the mp4 is priced at just under the 458 - this is not a coincidence

i think the mp4 moves the goalposts in terms of weight of supercars - they have been getting bigger and heavier every year - the mp4 is a shot across the bows of manufacturers like ferrai in this regard and i am sure we will see a suitable response in the next model range. for the meantime though mclaren appear to have stolen the high ground. given the brand loyalty of ferrari owners / drivers this is the very least they had to do in order to establish a reasonable demand for the car.
whether there is enough money / demand to support both cars i really don't know...
I did the tour as well back in November and had similar impressions. On technology and gadgets, on paper certainly look interesting but I am holding judgement until I have the chance to drive one and see if it all really works as well as they claim. One aspect that I really do like is the fact that McLaren has been able to keep the weight way down. Perhaps it is time for Ferrari to start building all their cars on CF tubs.

There are a few pictures etc:

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/
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