Another IPCC Global Warming Error exposed - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Another IPCC Global Warming Error exposed

I would love to be sitting in the room of those self proclaimed climate experts on the IPCC panel as yet another mistake was reported today on the melting of ice. I was engaged in a debate on this issue last year and the liberal Democrats refused to accept the data from other scientific sources that I provided in explaining the actual increase, not decrease, in the formation of ice. Of course, they stood firm and only accepted the IPCC and their supporting cast of politicized scientist as if they were the only true news source (e.g., NYT and CNN).

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/287706
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post #2 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by redtrman View Post
I would love to be sitting in the room of those self proclaimed climate experts on the IPCC panel as yet another mistake was reported today on the melting of ice. I was engaged in a debate on this issue last year and the liberal Democrats refused to accept the data from other scientific sources that I provided in explaining the actual increase, not decrease, in the formation of ice. Of course, they stood firm and only accepted the IPCC and their supporting cast of politicized scientist as if they were the only true news source (e.g., NYT and CNN).

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/287706
They need to go back and dig deeper and find out why the ice is growing in the south. Global warming shouldn't be about politics and we should keep politics out of it. Fuck the left and right, I'm tired of the lame fighting.

The reason Antarctica is GROWING is because the hole in the Ozone layer is above Antarctica. In 50 years when that hole is gone the ice will start to melt as the north is. How does that work? Very simple, the hole allows all the heat and gases to escape in that area.

This is no way is evidence that global warming isn't happening. Average temperatures are rising, that is a verifiable fact. It may get colder in one area, but it is also getting hotter in another, such that when you average the two, the average still comes out higher than it was at previously.
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post #3 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 10:57 AM
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On another point, this is exactly why I hate the media. Neither side reports the WHOLE truth. Even that above article is BULLSHIT. If they bothered to do their due diligence they would seek to find out WHY Antarctica is growing, which is what I did several months ago when I heard the same.
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post #4 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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This is no way is evidence that global warming isn't happening. Average temperatures are rising, that is a verifiable fact.
Really? For what time period? Maybe you should have a debate with the UN IPCC members who now disagree.

"The embattled ex-head of the research center at the heart of the Climate-gate scandal recently dropped a bombshell of his own, admitting in an interview with the BBC that there has been no global warming over the past 15 years."

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...oer-resigning/

I respectfully disagree Andrew, the climate does, has been, and always will change and any person who thinks otherwise is an idiot. In addition, the earth's temperature has risen and fallen since the dawn of time and even the liberal scientist agree that the earth was hotter during the middle ages (i.e., no cars, trucks, airplanes or ferraris). To make such a claim based on a few decades of data vs. millions of years is not science nor is it a fact. We can go on and on but there is plenty of documented evidence from well known scientist around the globe that refute the warming theory.
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post #5 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
How does that work? Very simple, the hole allows all the heat and gases to escape in that area.
gonna need a link for that.



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post #6 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by redtrman View Post
I respectfully disagree Andrew, the climate does change and any person who thinks otherwise is an idiot. In addition, the earth's temperature has risen and fallen since the dawn of time and even the liberal scientist agree that the earth was hotter during the middle ages (i.e., no cars, trucks, airplanes or ferraris). To make such a claim based on a few decades of data vs. millions of years is not science nor is it a fact. We can go on and on but there is plenty of documented evidence from well known scientist around the globe that refute the warming theory.
No worries. I just hope you can see what I'm trying to say in the above. That the media has it's own bias. So both sides will show only the parts that help their argument.

Of course the climate changes, I'm not disputing that at all. I said the average temperature of the globe is rising (I'll go find some data, hopefully that isn't in a news article), if I don't I'll use this icon for myself

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post #7 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:31 AM
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gonna need a link for that.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l-warming.html
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post #8 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:33 AM
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It's the southern ozone hole whatdunit. That's why Antarctic sea ice is growing while at the other pole, Arctic ice is shrinking at record rates. It seems CFCs and other ozone-depleting chemicals have given the South Pole respite from global warming.
But only temporarily. According to John Turner of the British Antarctic Survey, the effect will last roughly another decade before Antarctic sea ice starts to decline as well.
Arctic sea ice is decreasing dramatically and reached a record low in 2007. But satellite images studied by Turner and his colleagues show that Antarctic sea ice is increasing in every month of the year expect January. "By the end of the century we expect one third of Antarctic sea ice to disappear," says Turner. "So we're trying to understand why it's increasing now, at a time of global warming."


Emphasis mine in the bold. Again, take the politics out of it for the time being, I want to know the why.
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post #9 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:33 AM
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Global warming shouldn't be about politics and we should keep politics out of it. Fuck the left and right, I'm tired of the lame fighting.
first off, andrew get your facts straight. The world taxing authority that is behind this crap has already decided to change their religion to "climate change" because they can't fool people with "global warming" anymore. Just like "global cooling" in the 70's didn't sell. At least stay up on the latest jargon.

second off, it's not about right and left. None of the really pressing issues we face today are. That is a false conflict set up to distract you. This is all about money. remember that in ten years when they issue you your personal global carbon emission allotment card. Hope you aren't a heavy breather. Want to exercise? hope you haven't used up all your allotment huffing and puffing.



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post #10 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:35 AM
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http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0520-08.htm

Last sentence:
The researchers based their conclusions on an analysis of 347 million radar altimeter measurements made by the European Space Agency's ERS-1 and ERS-2 satellites from June 1992 to May 2003.
They determined that the icecap appeared to be thickening at the rate of 1.8 centimeters every year. The ice is thinning in West Antarctica and other regions of the continent.
"The changes in the ice look like those expected for a warming world," said glaciologist Richard Alley at Pennsylvania State University. "The new result in no way disproves global warming; if anything, the new result supports global warming."
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post #11 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
first off, andrew get your facts straight. The world taxing authority that is behind this crap has already decided to change their religion to "climate change" because they can't fool people with "global warming" anymore. Just like "global cooling" in the 70's didn't sell. At least stay up on the latest jargon.
Global Warming is the cause, the effect is going to be "Climate Change"

Climate is about weather "the weather in some location averaged over some long period of time; "the dank climate of southern Wales"; "plants from a cold clime travel best"

Global warming is about the Earth's total average temperature. "Climate Change" is the result of average temperatures rising.

During the 100,000+ year Ice Age the climate was glacial with snow covering the north all the way to Indiana. Then activity in the Tropics caused a quick 10 degree centigrade warming. I'll get detailed articles if I can find them. I studied geology (not my major just took several classes for my science requirement) in college so a lot of this is from big text books etc.
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post #12 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew;112074But satellite images studied by Turner and his colleagues show that Antarctic sea ice is increasing in every month of the year expect January. "By the end of the century we expect one third of Antarctic sea ice to disappear," says Turner. [B
"So we're trying to understand why[/B] it's increasing now, at a time of global warming."
so he doesn't know why it is increasing, but he expects one third of it to disappear in about 100 years. O.K., whatever. You understand that this is all bullshit don't you? You understand that if he says the opposite he will be running the register at his local video rental store right? you understand that he takes no risk at all "predicting" what will happen 100 years from now? you understand he has no EVIDENCE whatsoever to back up his prediction. Only theory and computer modeling? You understand that eugenics was a respected branch of science less than 100 years ago? You understand that many thousands of people where sterilized, some still alive today, in the US based on this science? You understand i could come up with 100 other examples of this kind of "settled science". Like the earth was flat? You want to turn our entire way of life upside down and plunge 100's of millions of people into poverty based on this? Please, don't rush to judgement, open your mind. Seek out alternative voices. and turn off your tv!!!!!



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post #13 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by wetpet View Post
second off, it's not about right and left. None of the really pressing issues we face today are. That is a false conflict set up to distract you. This is all about money. remember that in ten years when they issue you your personal global carbon emission allotment card. Hope you aren't a heavy breather. Want to exercise? hope you haven't used up all your allotment huffing and puffing.
Never thought of the money bit, totally makes sense I also don't believe in cap in trade, and don't think it will pass. As stated before, I do believe in reduction of CO2 where we can, it just makes common sense. If I can replace X with Y, and it reduces X's negative impact, why not?

On the breathing part, I found this interesting on the EPA's website:

How much carbon dioxide do humans contribute through breathing?

The average person, through the natural process of breathing, produces approximately 2.3 pounds (1 kg) of carbon dioxide per day. The actual amount depends strongly on the personís activity level. However, this carbon dioxide is part of a natural closed-loop cycle and does not contribute to the greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere. Natural processes of photosynthesis (in plants) and respiration (in plants and animals) maintain a balance of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Thus, the carbon dioxide from natural process is not included in greenhouse gas inventories.
In contrast, the burning of fossil fuels upsets this natural equilibrium by adding a surplus of carbon dioxide into the system. The carbon in fossil fuels has been stored underground for millions of years and thus is not part of the current natural carbon cycle. When those fuels are burned, the carbon dioxide generated is over and above the amount circulating from natural sources. Land use changes such as deforestation also upset the natural equilibrium by reducing the amount of carbon dioxide removed from the atmosphere by forests. Thus, both fossil fuel burning and deforestation are accounted for by scientists who develop greenhouse gas inventories to study how greenhouse gases contribute to climate change.


http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/emissions.html#q7
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post #14 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:49 AM
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so he doesn't know why it is increasing, but he expects one third of it to disappear in about 100 years. O.K., whatever. You understand that this is all bullshit don't you? You understand that if he says the opposite he will be running the register at his local video rental store right? you understand that he takes no risk at all "predicting" what will happen 100 years from now? you understand he has no EVIDENCE whatsoever to back up his prediction. Only theory and computer modeling? You understand that eugenics was a respected branch of science less than 100 years ago? You understand that many thousands of people where sterilized, some still alive today, in the US based on this science? You understand i could come up with 100 other examples of this kind of "settled science". Like the earth was flat? You want to turn our entire way of life upside down and plunge 100's of millions of people into poverty based on this? Please, don't rush to judgement, open your mind. Seek out alternative voices. and turn off your tv!!!!!
Just curious, where did you ever come up with me saying this:

"You want to turn our entire way of life upside down and plunge 100's of millions of people into poverty based on this?"

Making a bold generalization like that? Please help me understand. Going forward I'll only post links and not excerpts from the article that take it out of content as this was also stated in the article, which seems to suggest they know why there is more snow fall in the south:

In a region known for the lowest temperatures recorded on Earth, it normally is too cold for snow to form across the 2.7 million square miles of the ice sheet. Any additional annual snowfall in East Antarctica, therefore, is almost certainly attributable to warmer temperatures, four experts on Antarctica said.
"As the atmosphere warms, it should hold more moisture," said climatologist Joseph R. McConnell at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, who helped conduct the study. "In East Antarctica, that means there should be more snowfall."
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post #15 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:51 AM
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Just curious, where did you ever come up with me saying this:

"You want to turn our entire way of life upside down and plunge 100's of millions of people into poverty based on this?"
Please help me understand.
I.e., these ARE NOT my intentions and if this is coming across please show me how so I may rectify my dialogue to ensure I'm coming across correctly.
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post #16 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:52 AM
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Global Warming is the cause, the effect is going to be "Climate Change"
Would not "global cooling also be the cause of "climate change"? Couldn't many things be the cause of climate change? Climate change is unavoidable. No weather is going to stay the same for ever. If there really is man made global warming, why not call it that? Why was it called global warming just a couple of years ago but global cooling in the 70's? What is wrong with climate change and do you really believe you can "stop" it? Where can you stop it? at 1 degree? 5 degrees? what about going down? would that be man made? could you stop that? The answer to all these questions is you don't know. If you don't know, try to find out. Don't come and try to tax me. When you do that, i KNOW what's up. I don't need to computer model that. This whole BS was started by the club of rome and the cfr. look it up. Even al gores ex mentor has said he was wrong on the science. Al gore is not a scientist and has no specialized knowledge of this subject. Either do you or I. notwithstanding the couple classes you took.



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post #17 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 11:58 AM
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you didn't say that. I assumed since you buy the fact that there is global warming you also believe it is reversible or can at least be slowed by man. i further assume that you believe the remedy's that have been offered by the "climate change" crew. I might be wrong in assuming that, but i doubt it. If not, you wouldn't be on here arguing climate change. Maybe you believe it is partially caused by man but you don't care. if so, i apologize for jumping to conclusions. Gotta go pick up my daughter from school. be back later.


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I.e., these ARE NOT my intentions and if this is coming across please show me how so I may rectify my dialogue to ensure I'm coming across correctly.


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post #18 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 12:00 PM
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Would not "global cooling also be the cause of "climate change"? Couldn't many things be the cause of climate change? Climate change is unavoidable. No weather is going to stay the same for ever. If there really is man made global warming, why not call it that? Why was it called global warming just a couple of years ago but global cooling in the 70's? What is wrong with climate change and do you really believe you can "stop" it? Where can you stop it? at 1 degree? 5 degrees? what about going down? would that be man made? could you stop that? The answer to all these questions is you don't know. If you don't know, try to find out. Don't come and try to tax me. When you do that, i KNOW what's up. I don't need to computer model that. This whole BS was started by the club of rome and the cfr. look it up. Even al gores ex mentor has said he was wrong on the science. Al gore is not a scientist and has no specialized knowledge of this subject. Either do you or I. notwithstanding the couple classes you took.
Of course global cooling could cause climate change. Several volcanoes erupting in 1 year could do that.

Not familiar with club of rome, but this goes as far back as the '50s. In the '70s there was even talk of "climate engineering" and that is something that likely can be done in the future.

And when did I say anything about raising taxes? I'm a registered Republican and happy to prove it. I'm not going to wait for government to do something, it will never happen, I'll just innovate and build something like Tesla etc.

Climate engineering:
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post #19 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 12:00 PM
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They need to go back and dig deeper and find out why the ice is growing in the south. Global warming shouldn't be about politics and we should keep politics out of it.
Yup....exactly.


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{%*@$} the left and right, I'm tired of the lame fighting.
.
You said it in less words than I but NAILED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone want to blame the message via the messenger is missing the point. Doesn't matter who/what the messenger is, if the message is true, then it's true.

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post #20 of 31 Old 02-19-2010, 12:12 PM
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I further assume that you believe the remedy's that have been offered by the "climate change" crew. I might be wrong in assuming that, but i doubt it. If not, you wouldn't be on here arguing climate change. Maybe you believe it is partially caused by man but you don't care. if so, i apologize for jumping to conclusions. Gotta go pick up my daughter from school. be back later.
I don't know if the "climate change" crew is right. But I can see the changes with my own life experience, I don't know the cause. It's like the doctor analogy, if 90% say take X or you die and 10% take Y, I'm going to take X. I'm willing to hedge my risk and heed the advice of the overwhelming majority. Scientist by nature always leave room for doubt and therefore aren't advocates, those articles I posted are scientist saying what their data shows, they aren't Al Gore saying we need to do X now.

I am not arguing, I'm trying to get to the truth and real facts, which never seems to happen in news articles and TV evangelist spouting their dogma on 24 hour news channels. That is why I'm hear discussing it, I get to learn things like Mid-evil warming that you posted and I didn't know about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

And hopefully you take to heart your words about learning the other side and watch the YouTube video that shows how climate engineering might be possible.

I'm not interested in walking away and saying I'm right the other side is wrong, I'm interested in learning what all the sides know and putting all the pieces together.

Last edited by Andrew; 02-19-2010 at 12:48 PM.
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