Underwear bomber indicted for six charges, but not Terrorism! WTF! - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 26 Old 01-11-2010, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Underwear bomber indicted for six charges, but not Terrorism! WTF!

One would think the mistake at Fort Hood would have taught our loser incompetent President a lesson, but no, now he fails to charge the Al Qaeda trained jihadist underwear bomber with terrorism for his attempt to blow up an airplane and kill all people on board. No, he charges the terrorist with six crimes and not one is an act of terrorsm. How is that possible. Thus, there are no such things as laws against terrorism in the US anymore because now the precedent has been set. A young muslim male trained by Al Qaeda gets on a plane without a passport, pays cash, one way ticket, with a bomb, with the intent to blow up and kill all the passengers in the name of jihad, but he is not charged with terrorism. Only in Amerika!


http://abcnews.go.com/WN/grand-jury-...ory?id=9494117
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post #2 of 26 Old 01-11-2010, 08:09 PM
 
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A young muslim male trained by Al Qaeda gets on a plane without a passport, pays cash, one way ticket, with a bomb, with the intent to blow up and kill all the passengers in the name of jihad, but he is not charged with terrorism.

You sound bothered by this. Can't you see it was just a simple case of an individual working alone who just happened to be from another country. I personaly show up without a passport, no luggage and pay cash for a one way ticket when I want to travel to another country. The other gentlemen that helped him at the ticket booth was a simple translator. I use them all the time when I find myself going to a country that I dont speak their language very well. Maybe he was just trying to go fishing and planned to buy some gear and extra clothes when he got there.

It's clear that this administration doesn't want to admit we are in a real war against real people who are set to kill us to further their cause.

YES, it does matter who you vote for. Never been more important.

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post #3 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 05:20 AM
 
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Here in this country everything is possible. They can lock you up for racing wit a felony and give sometimes if its a repeat incident. But a guy that has almost killed 200 or more people will maybe be get a couple years and walk. The politicians don't know what they doing.

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post #4 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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You sound bothered by this.
No, not really. Not sure what is more depressing, the incompetence of the administration and the media or the direct insult to the intelligence of the American people and people around the world.
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post #5 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 01:38 PM
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we are at war alright. wall street against everybody. huh bill? guess who hasn't been charged in the sept 11th attacks? Osama bin laden.



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post #6 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 01:51 PM
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Justice System

I believe it would have taken a long time proving the terroristic channels and such. It is just a matter of expedience, ease, and typical system process.

While I do not agree he is innocent of attempted terrorism, I suspect keeping him in the localized justice system rather than other courts means they can only charge him with what they found easily, and the rules of evidence are just too strict.

Just wait, the term Terrorism will be expanded to incorporate such acts, which will be a very slippery slope [I am making no judgment call here] as, knowing the legal types and all, will need to split hairs to facilitate every, single, type, possibility of 'terror'. Could include saying Boo to your dog

Related note: watching the Daly Show [I love it...for its obvious comedy] where Jon was interviewing the Berkley prof. who helped define 'what is torture, and not'. MAN, the prof. was so way out there, that he needs to stay in his ivory tower.

He threw out common sense for splitting hairs under some agenda: we are doomed.

Another case this morning: 20 persons saw, a young 16 year old get raped, beaten for over two hours couple months ago in our area [Richmond IIRC]!!!! One witness only made a reference to it when he went home, resulting in [finally] the cops being called.
Today, grand jury learned it is NOT against the law for a participant to fail in reporting IF the victim is > 13 years old: COMMON SENSE would say, we know right from wrong and that one should/would help in ANY CASE to include simple reporting.

again: we are doomed....can't go backward, when we had morals that seemed everyone knew, endorsed and practiced. Now, in our lowest of times, we go the lowest common denomiator.

Which has its good and questionable points:
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post #7 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I believe it would have taken a long time proving the terroristic channels and such.
Really? Where have you been hiding?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...=related_story


PS: let me just set the ground rules here before someone turns into NeoNazi DM, politics is fun, entertaining, and informative. When I was in law school I ran a weekly legal/political publication in which well known and not so well known issues were raised for debate. This was done to provide the law school community with exposure to issues and points of view that are not well publicized or vetted in the vast left wing media war complex that controls most media outlets around the globe. There will be disagreements and that should be understood and respected. Granted some jokes will fly now and then, but most important, we should learn and express our differing viewpoints to educate our community.

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post #8 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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guess who hasn't been charged in the sept 11th attacks? Osama bin laden.
Exactly my point, Democrats are destroying us from within. However, I thought the Democrats were in love with Russia, but it's the old communist Russia they love and clearly the Russians are more Conservative these days:

http://newsfromrussia.com/cis/2005/07/26/60728.html

Got to love the internet!
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post #9 of 26 Old 01-12-2010, 04:31 PM
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on a related topic. did you know you can take those scanner photos, hit "invert" in your photo software and you have a perfectly good color nude pic of your wife on her vacation. this pic is from the german paper bild. all i did was hit "invert". try it yourself. You want the losers in security having this pic of your wife or daughter to post on the internet?

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post #10 of 26 Old 01-14-2010, 12:13 PM
 
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Only in Amerika!
Don't kid yourself into thinking it is any different in other countries in the world.

I'm not a legal expert, but it seems that for example in the Netherlands this guy would have probably been acquited because of his horrible childhood and any mental problems he would have had in the past.

If he would have been charged and found guilty he would get a sentence of maximum 20 years, out of which he would serve only 2/3 in a private cel with a tv, access to the gym and the possibility to work or study. When he gets out he would be able to claim social benefits for the years he spent in prison.

The guy who jumped on him on the plane might even face a charge of harrasment because he injured the guy and be worse of than the bomber.

There you have it, somehow this does not seem right ....
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post #11 of 26 Old 01-14-2010, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Don't kid yourself into thinking it is any different in other countries in the world.
We do not, since fascist liberalism has taken over Amerika, we have become a sad "state" of affairs from those living in the past. We just wish they would pack their bags and move back home to the motherland, Europe.

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I'm not a legal expert, but it seems that for example in the Netherlands this guy would have probably been acquited because of his horrible childhood and any mental problems he would have had in the past.
Liberal Legal term - Cultural Defense

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If he would have been charged and found guilty he would get a sentence of maximum 20 years, out of which he would serve only 2/3 in a private cel with a tv, access to the gym and the possibility to work or study. When he gets out he would be able to claim social benefits for the years he spent in prison.
Liberal Legal term - rehabilitable murderer

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The guy who jumped on him on the plane might even face a charge of harrasment because he injured the guy and be worse of than the bomber.
Liberal Legal term - the victim is the criminal and the criminal is the victim

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There you have it, somehow this does not seem right ....
Your right! It is left!

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post #12 of 26 Old 01-14-2010, 02:48 PM
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Really? Where have you been hiding?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...=related_story
.
I can say, having prosecuted a few federal cases in my time, that the path of least resist was done. Having someone claim you were employed, and of questionable background, is great for 10PM TV, but not typically done in real courts. NOT saying they shouldn't pursue as not doing so is a big mistake. Obviously he has terroristic intent.


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guess who hasn't been charged in the sept 11th attacks? Osama bin laden.
Just to make a point: why hasn't he, then and now? as in Red's upper quote I copied, this seems to be similar in why/why-not someone is charged, even if 'caught' on tape.

Rules of ev. are just that strict sometimes.


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on a related topic. did you know you can take those scanner photos, hit "invert" in your photo software and you have a perfectly good color nude pic of your wife on her vacation. this pic is from the german paper bild. all i did was hit "invert". try it yourself. You want the losers in security having this pic of your wife or daughter to post on the internet?

Source of photo:
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-en...eally-see.html
Interesting, but honestly it doesn't bother me. I am more concerned about my safety than a drooling idiot.

also some considerations:
1. With the digital age we have today all we enjoyed in the past in terms of 'privacy' is over.
until
2. we develope tech to cover it up: Thus, that scanner will be modified I'm sure.

This entire plane thing reminds me of Arnie's Total Recall. Where he is seen with a weapon behind a virtual scanning screen, but yet shows up on Mars hidden in a woman's body.

This will never end: NOW, can't WAIT for the high speed trains to go into play. Think planes are tough, try guarding hundreds of train tracks.

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Rules of ev. are just that strict sometimes.
Spoken like a true attorney "sometimes". Exactly, we could write a series of encyclopedias on that topic (application of rules of ev.) alone.
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post #14 of 26 Old 01-14-2010, 04:07 PM
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Spoken like a true attorney "sometimes". Exactly, we could write a series of encyclopedias on that topic (application of rules of ev.) alone.

Was listening to a prof. go over the debate on what constitutes torture and not. So amazed, and taken back by his ivory tower thoughts, while ignoring common sense.

Sort of like :

Judge: did you punch him?

Def: well, not hard

J: Did you?

D: Um, well if you can call it a punch, then I guess, Yes.

J: guilty. NEXT

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post #15 of 26 Old 01-14-2010, 10:57 PM
 
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Judge: did you punch him?
Def: well, not hard
J: Did you?
D: Um, well if you can call it a punch, then I guess, Yes.
J: guilty. NEXT
This could have been from the list of quotations are taken from official court records.

Just google "Things People Said: Courtroom Quotations" - its hillarious, the list might be a bit long to post here.

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post #16 of 26 Old 01-15-2010, 04:47 AM
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Interesting, but honestly it doesn't bother me. I am more concerned about my safety than a drooling idiot.
do you have a 12 yo daughter? a wife? Do you really believe a retarded parolee working the scanner taking a nude pic of them is going to make you safer? You, my friend, should consider your position more closely in my opinion.

You, or anyone elses false feeling of "safety" is not enough for me to allow that.

I have a different proposal. how about we strip search young black men flying from yemen, alone with no bags and having paid for their ticket in cash? Seems alot more cost effective and less intrusive to me. Maybe the airlines could pay an armed guard to monitor the plane while in flight. possibly by offering free seats to law enforcement personnel.

Make no mistake what this is about. There are much better ways to deal with this. This is all about control and de-humanization. This is about pushing the boundaries of what you are willing to accept from the government. Do you really think the people passing these laws and all the rich folk that fly around on their own private or chartered jets will have their 12 yo daughter's naked picture being ogled by scum? If history is any guide, i doubt it.

I would also like to remind all the worrywarts out there how many planes have been brought down in the US since 911. Zero. And thats with our current system. This is not a real concern, do not be frightened by your government into giving up your most basic rights.

Whatta ya think bill?

by the way gran, don't take this as a personal attack on you. I am just riffing on your comment. It's a very common position you have.



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post #17 of 26 Old 01-15-2010, 08:44 AM
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Ok, let us get into it

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do you have a 12 yo daughter? a wife? Do you really believe a retarded parolee working the scanner taking a nude pic of them is going to make you safer? You, my friend, should consider your position more closely in my opinion.

You, or anyone elses false feeling of "safety" is not enough for me to allow that.
If we have 'retarded parolees working scanners', then we have larger problems.

Yes I have a daughter, a wife and several g-children: Nudity in our family is not an issue. Not every one dresses up all day. Some people are not as paranoid about their body parts: THAT IS my simple answer, to the direct question. But I truly understand others who are terrified about that concept.

False feeling of safety is what we are experiencing NOW>

Do you, feel safe in the slightest with
1. shoes being taken off
2. pat downs
3. liquids in small bottles
4. scanners that are not all that fool proof
5. packages being sent in bellys of planes
6. MERCURY that can be made to explode in AL planes causing them to melt in the sky over a few hours? [ http://www.popsci.com/scitech/articl...sting-aluminum <-- this will make you sleep at night ]
7. foreign screening.
8 Mole type people who don't look your part: would have to do serious searching, but remember a few cases even before 9/11 where a Blond, white g-friend to the terrorist was duped into helping.
9. Geese, damn Canadians [just kidding, love our canuks, truly] flying into engines

IF one has a problem with the scanner, then that's their problem but not, mine. I have NO sense of security boarding any public transportation now, or 30 years ago. Never did, never will.

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I have a different proposal. how about we strip search young black men flying from yemen, alone with no bags and having paid for their ticket in cash? Seems alot more cost effective and less intrusive to me. Maybe the airlines could pay an armed guard to monitor the plane while in flight. possibly by offering free seats to law enforcement personnel.
Actually I have a MUCH better approach: Have Israel do the prototypes and follow their guidlines. They have methods of success. It is public transportation, and the rights are subject to the carrier, govt. and skipper that does the driving. Having [and I'm quite sure you were just citing a simple example] just Yemen [or pick a country] only be subject or just MEN subject or blacks [whatever color--pick one] should not be rejected in your sense of TRUE security. Why would I trust someone like your skin color or home country to make me safe? NOT. You could be a skin head wanting revenge on all the left-wing-CA treehuggers for all I know. PS: Not saying I am one. But making the point that cannot just single out a 'type'.....nut jobs go off the deep end all the time.

Over the last few days, how many reports have you heard about a guy walking into a business and blowing away co-workers or the staff ... just becuase.



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Make no mistake what this is about. There are much better ways to deal with this.
go one I am all ears

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This is all about control and de-humanization. This is about pushing the boundaries of what you are willing to accept
Perhaps it's just me, but I don't feel the least bit more humanized in my last almost 60 years on this planet. Sorry, we have taken giant steps back and what man-solutions that have evolved really make me believe I have less humanization in my daily life that freedoms I should have/had back in the day.

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from the government. Do you really think the people passing these laws and all the rich folk that fly around on their own private or chartered jets will have their 12 yo daughter's naked picture being ogled by scum? If history is any guide, i doubt it.
Look this 12 year old comment is a distraction. One could dwell on the 'rich' 'priv' types and note some of those children are posing in sexting etc.

SO: Let us just not go there. IF that is your entire point, then I'll somehow just bet, there is a TECH to solve your issue. I know, there is a technical solution to solve that issue.
Then when that tech is employed, what then, will there be a different argument.....

[PS: Yes I get your point, that those in control are forcing us 'sheep' to comply and the controlling class do not have to.... I have over my entire life given up my freedoms from being the child of military to serving in the military and LOVE my freedoms more than you can imagine, today. I don't like giving them up at all. My biggest concern today is the stupidity of trying to control a situation with shoe removal, or tiny bottles and skipping the abviously easier ways to make a disaster happen: Inside jobs. We will see more of these. Just like the latest guy who took out CIA operatives last week, or that 'dr' who was a walking time bomb into a base blowing us away.]

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I would also like to remind all the worrywarts out there how many planes have been brought down in the US since 911. Zero. And thats with our current system.
Back at ya' :
Actually for decades, before 9/11 with no waiting in lines and with shoes on feet and coffee in hand and family kissing me goodbye at the gate, we had, basically, ZERO planes come down in the US. Shoot, I remember transporting as much duty free liquor as I could muster underneath my seat. BET one can still do that today, in the 'secured' area. Bet, and inside person could sell a bomb in a duty free store like right now.


Quote:
by the way gran, don't take this as a personal attack on you. I am just riffing on your comment. It's a very common position you have.
No problem.. you can even toast me personally and I would just take the argument and try to respond: We iz famileeeze here [*but keeping the glock handy ... naw, just kidding. I don't own any guns...yet. BUT My younger brother: Two gun safes with > 30 weapons. ]

PS: PLEASE PROFILE THIS GUY. I will give the answer later, but I will say: HE DID PERFORM VIOLENCE ON A PLANE. This is a test.
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post #18 of 26 Old 01-15-2010, 12:01 PM
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nudity at home is one thing. people having color pictures of my under age daughter, too me, is child pornography. i imagine more people are with me than against me on that one.

As far as being safe, which i think goes a long way to answering most of your other points, yes i feel safe. Always have. Even counting 9/11 i have more of a chance of being struck by lightning than getting hurt on a plane. Anyone that doesn't feel safe is either drinking the kool aid or is neurotic. Air travel, especially in the us, is the safest form of travel. period. exclamation point.

you argument about the rich falls flat. you can't just dismiss it because you think it's 12 years old or because some rich kid may be sexting someone. Sexting someone is generally private and consensual. My point is the people in power don't mind pushing through these kind of things because it will not apply to them. sort of like imagining Hillary giving up all her perks to live in her Utopian socialist society. Socialism and nude scanning is for the rest of us, not them. Hillary will never have a nude picture of her taken at the airport check in and she will be chauffeured around in a limo her entire life. no matter the government.

we don't have to be scanned now. it's not about you not feeling safe because i don't want to get scanned. It's about me not wanting to be scanned because you don't feel safe. get it?

do you think everyone that drives a truck should be scanned? Oklahoma city, the first world trade center bombings, ect. are you afraid to walk into a federal building now? i do it every day and i'm much more upset at the security than i am at the possibility it will be attacked.

we are already on the slippery slope. don't throw cooking oil on it.



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PS: Still nothing personal even if

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nudity at home is one thing. people having color pictures of my under age daughter, too me, is child pornography. i imagine more people are with me than against me on that one.
I'll let this one go: I do NOT endorse Child pornography, and as a matter of fact work a lot to thwart such.
BUT
Soon, well be arguing about babies not being able to be scanned and then at what age, and then the entire protect my image thing will overshadow security vs personal rights. I have no problem, and like you say, just me and mine, to having some things done to protect others and mine.


Quote:
As far as being safe, which i think goes a long way to answering most of your other points, yes i feel safe. Always have. Even counting 9/11 i have more of a chance of being struck by lightning than getting hurt on a plane. Anyone that doesn't feel safe is either drinking the kool aid or is neurotic. Air travel, especially in the us, is the safest form of travel. period. exclamation point.
sigh: Depends on what you believe is safe: If lack of accidents is safe to you, then so be it. Statistics are just a hair behond 'damn lies'.
I do NOT feel safe. Hell, I don't feel all that safe even when I'm flying my own plane. I feel confident that most things will go correctly, but to feel safe? naw. I just accept my fate for the whatever. If not a plane, do YOU feel safe? Do you know who maintained that plane, or that the inspections were done correctly, or that Pilot B is hiding his drug problem?
or or or.????

I KNOW, for a fact, many/most of US maintenance is lacking and even being out-sourced to South America for American planes and it's just a matter of time. Mark those words. You will see that chestnut get us: FAA is NOT EVEN inspecting those facilities. The manuals supplied to 'qualified' mechanics are still in English, while the standard, has the problem that > 70% of the mechs are not English savvy. They are not even applying the correct type of rivet in the correct sequence: Check it out.

As for drinking the cool aid, not every one that feels the need to believe your way, is yesterday's Holiday fruit-cake: I am not, and believe me I have done quite a bit of things in my day. I've lived in so many non-American venues in 3rd world countries, that I know what being an American can be, what safety is, and how to keep my personal motto: Don't Panic.

But if you want to feel like we are safe, or that the inspectors or the TSAs personnel are absolutely the best, final step in your safety, then my only comment would be: what flavor Cool-Aid have you accepted?

Quote:
My point is the people in power don't mind pushing through these kind of things because it will not apply to them.
Has always, been the case. What ever made one think the priv. had to comply or were part of the social solution?
Not saying I wouldn't want them participating. We all have guilt in this area to some degree. In some countries, you wouldn't be the least surprised nor even care, to see who gets the 3rd degree vs you [a part of the 'priv' class there] and go to arms about it. Heck. Bet you don't have problems as much as a darkskinned person in NYC getting a cab.

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we don't have to be scanned now. it's not about you not feeling safe
Uh, YES IT IS about me wanting to feel safe. That's my whole point.


Quote:
because i don't want to get scanned. It's about me not wanting to be scanned because you don't feel safe. get it?
REALLY?

- How do you feel now not being able to wear your shoes, or take coffee from curb to seat, or your fav big bottle of shampo? Is that something you want to do, because personally I have no problem with scanning but removing my shoes seems to stupid. Ya' think someone if they truly wanted would not find a way to hide something. I'm thinking internal cavities here or worse.

- One person [like you] not wanting for the sake of thumbing nose to other's concern for safety has no place in my concerns.
I bet, you DO have some lee way on some areas that fit 'your acceptance', yet, others feel violated: Veils, turbins, head gear....just to start. Would you like a person wearing a mask onto a plane? I wouldn't.

Like I said, I don't like it, but am used to it, in giving up my personal freedoms for the safety of all, to include my self.

Do I feel safe: NO
Do I feel safer: perhaps
Do I feel something could still happen: Yup
Would I want 'them' to employ scanning: yes, as it would make me feel more safe than not
BUT, the biggest thing here is 'feel'. there are no guarantees...thus, I don't feel safe, cool aid or not. Never will I from the past or future. Just because planes are not dropping out of the sky doesn't mean there is safety, just stats say "it hasn't taken place yet". I don't believe Bush's last admin. ever made us more safe because he was in power any more than I do today. Matter of fact, it has proven out NOTHING HAS TRULY CHANGED from Richard Reid's shoe to that Yahoo on Christmas day: Gawd, how in the heck could you say it safer? PS: That pic above, on identity...the guy who tackled the Christmas day terrorist when every one stood looking.


Quote:
do you think everyone that drives a truck should be scanned?
No. But, I'd bet if there were money enough it would have happend. I said it before, we are doomed to our own designs. It will only get worse.

Quote:
Are you afraid to walk into a federal building now?
Yes. But less afraid than an airplane. Securities can be thwarted. Just last week a double agent [albeit, helped by the CIA types he was to see in thwarting the system] blew up many from within.

Quote:
we are already on the slippery slope. don't throw cooking oil on it.
I can accept that giving up freedoms for common carrier safety is ok with me as it seems a minimal approach to the suicidal bomber. Yet, I KNOW/accept, it will happen, somewhere, sometime, somehow and I may be on that fated device just munching my 'free' nuts. Even traveling naked.

I am not sure where this entire discussion is going. We seem to be splitting hairs with no solutions: the Ivory tower approach.

SO:
let us talk solutions.

You want to throw out scanners
What do you do in lack of?

My solution was to make the tech better, and if not ready for prime time, then go fwd now, anyway. But that is me not having a problem with the scanner. So, I am guessing I just have to be more afraid that because you personally don't want to be scanned due to personal reasons, that we cannot employ any tech, right now. It's all about you.

SO: What [and let us keep this one narrow] is your solution. [please just don't tell me profiling is the key....that has so many loose ends that scanners were invented to defeat that]

What, are we to do in place of scanners that you accept?

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


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1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #20 of 26 Old 01-15-2010, 04:06 PM
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In true FL fashion this thread went from terrorism to child pornography.

I too remember when my family members could accompany me to the gate to see me off. I could keep my shoes on, I could carry a lighter and a pocket knife (I used to always have a pocket knife, now I haven't carried a pocket knife in 10 years). I could carry my shampoo and toothpaste with me in my carry-on so I wouldn't have to check a bag. I miss those days.

Do I feel safer now with all the new security screenings? Not really. 99.999% of people travelling are just folks like me trying to get from point A to point B. The ones that have true intent on mayhem will find ways to bypass any security. Making sure that Capt. Pete doesn't have a nail file and a 3 oz tube of Colgate on him when he boards the plane is not the answer.

Capt. Pete
'79 308 GTS, '82 Jeep CJ7 Jamboree
"Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once."
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