2nd round with the enemy...... Mclaren.... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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2nd round with the enemy...... Mclaren....

the new kid on the block continues to excite my local community, i had to chase it all over town to get a ride.

this is the 2nd one in the country, volcano orange is an equally impressive color as the last orange/yellow.

during the short ride i conclude that it needs the sport exhaust option, because stock is silent, and "no feel". Wide open throttle is better with a constant "BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA-BA!" going in my right ear, sounds more like an air intake sucking sound more than an exhaust sound. i dont know how to describe it, but its like a toned down 63 AMG.
458 definitely killed it in the sound competition.

In all out active plus track and aero modes, the car is more bouncy than my 458 in CT off mode. i didnt drive but it feels lively and twichty which is a good thing, cornerning is flat with no roll, not tail happy like the lively 458 rears, although the professional race driver owner said it might need a better alignment for all out driving.
Didnt feel much of a difference in acceleration from the 458 due to the lack of noise. Definitely no high pitch 8k rpm scream, just a humble excess amount of torque that pushes ur back constantly and effortlessly. Owner mentioned the main difference is being N.A vs. turbo power delivery, .... duh.
Car cabin is very intimate, i already can imagine its an awesome date car, i can put my elbows between any hos legs without trying, 458 definitely feel more spacious inside. and dont know why the AC controls are on the passenger side, i dont know if i can turn it on if i were driving, or they have dual zones for on and off??! in a car smaller than a smart??
the control ergos seem worse than a ferrari's, but maybe we can get use to it.

the stupid paddle shifter, although can be pushed up or down a gear is much harder to use than a 458, not saying its worse but why pull twice and with more effort???! I heard they will correct this in the future, hopefully to like a 458's.

Overall, in a short ride, the most impressive thing was the non-existance body roll or lean. and im not even talking about the doors, its just second nature now, no biggy.
Now i just have to buy one to find out more.....

























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post #2 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 03:44 AM
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Thanks, interesting review. No doubt a great car, just doesn't tug at my heart strings.


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post #3 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 04:41 AM
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Looks to me like a design that was rushed or not quite finished.

Interesting write-up though.

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post #4 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 04:59 AM
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Mclaren does a lot of stuff right and there certainly is a lot to be said for what they did.

360 size / 458 performance with Lambo doors and wonderful fit and finish.

Would not want an early production but as the car evolves into a Scud version it's going to be perfection.

It does seem like they rushed them out the door but that can be said of every early production super car under 300k.

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post #5 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 05:47 AM
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It does seem like they rushed them out the door but that can be said of every early production super car under 300k.
Don't quite agree there, Doug, a lot of problems are still reported on Pistonheads, more than a year after the car was first driven by a journalist. You cannot compare that with any other supercar that I can think of. For some reason, people are cutting McLaren a lot of slack - if Ferrari had had the same problems, just think of the slamming it would have had.

No doubt McLaren will get it right eventually, but boy did they handle this car's launch poorly. And undoubtedly this model is costing them huge amounts of money. I hope they have deep pockets, it would be a real shame if they would disappear again. So far, thankfully, I have not heard any signs that they are in trouble, which is good news.


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post #6 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 08:17 AM
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I just spent some time with this one last week. It was my first exposure to one. In my 35+ years of working on Ferrari I have never seen one with the quality of fit and finish, quality of components or materials or of what engineering I was able to see in just the one visit on a Ferrari of any type ever.

Every person that visited my shop during the time it was here that had significant Ferrari knowledge or experience walked around it in gaped, open mouth awe.


If this company has good business people running it so they dont do something stupid and kill the company Ferrari has some serious worrying to do.

Sorry but a 458 is rubbish in comparison.

People may not like the design but it is a quality piece.
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post #7 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Wow strong unbiased opinion!
I also did note :
From the stupid iPhone slide to unlock doors to the stereo like bottons and knobs and displays, the whole thing is perfectly designed and executed. It feels more solid and more expensive than even my carbon intensive 458. Fit and finish is superb or even slightly better than the 458.

However the controls are un-intuitive and hard to read at speed, it may take a long while getting used to which also makes it more fun. The switchgear definitely is unique which also makes it more interesting than conventional sports cars like the 458.


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Sorry but a 458 is rubbish in comparison.
People may not like the design but it is a quality piece.
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post #8 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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Don't quite agree there, Doug, a lot of problems are still reported on Pistonheads, more than a year after the car was first driven by a journalist. You cannot compare that with any other supercar that I can think of. For some reason, people are cutting McLaren a lot of slack - if Ferrari had had the same problems, just think of the slamming it would have had.

No doubt McLaren will get it right eventually, but boy did they handle this car's launch poorly. And undoubtedly this model is costing them huge amounts of money. I hope they have deep pockets, it would be a real shame if they would disappear again. So far, thankfully, I have not heard any signs that they are in trouble, which is good news.


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My neighbor couldn't wouldn't drive his new 458 for 6 months due to the fire issue.

Door gaps welds window rubber cf and most of all the paint.

Paint correction alone on Ferrari is 4k right from the factory on standard paint.

I still love Ferrari - but I would hate to do a side by side build study let alone an engineering study on new tech.

Been waiting over 2 years for leather replacement under warranty and I don't have a factory service center for 300 miles and I still bought another Ferrari.

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post #9 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 05:01 PM
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My neighbor couldn't wouldn't drive his new 458 for 6 months due to the fire issue.

Door gaps welds window rubber cf and most of all the paint.

Paint correction alone on Ferrari is 4k right from the factory on standard paint.

I still love Ferrari - but I would hate to do a side by side build study let alone an engineering study on new tech.

Been waiting over 2 years for leather replacement under warranty and I don't have a factory service center for 300 miles and I still bought another Ferrari.

Ferrari has never been about being the ne plus ultra of fit and finish. I can and have always accepted that. Historically they have just shrugged when that was pointed out to them and they countered "but how does it drive?" . What we loved them for was bringing us a somewhat elemental sports car that was exiting to drive and exuded a feel of the passhion of the people who built them. That car and that company is gone. Their new cars are extraordinary in performance but have the excitement and passion of a Lexus.

If that is their new game fine but McLaren beats the shit out of them at it and does it without the attitude.
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post #10 of 22 Old 03-29-2012, 05:53 PM
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Ferrari has never been about being the ne plus ultra of fit and finish. I can and have always accepted that. Historically they have just shrugged when that was pointed out to them and they countered "but how does it drive?" . What we loved them for was bringing us a somewhat elemental sports car that was exiting to drive and exuded a feel of the passhion of the people who built them. That car and that company is gone. Their new cars are extraordinary in performance but have the excitement and passion of a Lexus.

If that is their new game fine but McLaren beats the shit out of them at it and does it without the attitude.
I think there is another huge factor - dealers are dying for Mclaren and surprisingly most if not all are going into existing Ferrari dealers.

At some point anyone and everyone talks to mechanics - if the mechanics start praising one brand over another it can sink a battleship. Service managers start agreeing with your post it's going to get ugly under the dealership roof especially with rising production.

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post #11 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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i heard many mechanics praise lambos of having better parts and being better put together over ferraris, but dont think it ever effect sales.


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...At some point anyone and everyone talks to mechanics - if the mechanics start praising one brand over another it can sink a battleship. Service managers start agreeing with your post it's going to get ugly under the dealership roof especially with rising production.
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post #12 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 05:28 AM
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i heard many mechanics praise lambos of having better parts and being better put together over ferraris, but dont think it ever effect sales.
That's true - but I think racing heritage puts Mclaren on a more level playing ground.

Ferrari guys I believe are tethered to F1 and places like Abu Dhabi - for some reason I would never buy a Lambo but strongly consider a Mclaren.

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post #13 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 06:54 AM
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For some reason, people are cutting McLaren a lot of slack - if Ferrari had had the same problems, just think of the slamming it would have had.



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Ferrari is the Toyota of supercars. They've been making essentially mass produced (for its segment) car for a long time. McLarens, Koenigsegg.... etc etc is so small that people cut them more slack because they know it's such a limited run there are going to be a lot of bugs but in the end they are glad to be a part of it.
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post #14 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 07:55 AM
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i heard many mechanics praise lambos of having better parts and being better put together over ferraris, but dont think it ever effect sales.


Not only do we have a Lambo but a long time friend was one of the 3 people responsible for North American technical support when the Germans took over.

To say the cars and particularly the motors were technologically on par with Victorian era steam engines is undue praise. The cars were crap and the build quality was worse. When the Germans took over that did change, not to the degree those guys wanted to believe but it did improve. What you get now is an Audi with exotic sheet metal and a paint job from Mattel toys. Most buyers looking at Italian exotics rather easily see that and stay away in droves. Some of their annual US sales figures were smaller than the number of Ferraris we had in inventory at my last dealer.

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post #15 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 06:48 PM
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Looks like hyperbole is the word of the day. Is that what it takes to make your point?

Maybe it's a fluke but I've had more trouble with high end Porsche than Lambo or Ferrari in terms of function, service, and build quality. This is in 6 cars over 50,000 miles.

12,000 Gallardos sold, they are doing something right. And they aren't garage queens.

I am a jealous admirer of the 12C carbon and hydraulics. But lots of nannies, fast as hell, quiet, ugly, turbo lag that testers deny--am I the only one reminded of the GTR?
And what a botch, it must be frustrating to see a mechanical marvel brought down by software. No bias, I'd post this exact same thing on mc life.

I think the 458 is one of the best cars ever built, but I'd ditch it in a second if something better (excluding million dollar cars) came along. Not yet.
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post #16 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 07:30 PM
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Looks like hyperbole is the word of the day. Is that what it takes to make your point?

Maybe it's a fluke but I've had more trouble with high end Porsche than Lambo or Ferrari in terms of function, service, and build quality. This is in 6 cars over 50,000 miles.

12,000 Gallardos sold, they are doing something right. And they aren't garage queens.

I am a jealous admirer of the 12C carbon and hydraulics. But lots of nannies, fast as hell, quiet, ugly, turbo lag that testers deny--am I the only one reminded of the GTR?
And what a botch, it must be frustrating to see a mechanical marvel brought down by software. No bias, I'd post this exact same thing on mc life.

I think the 458 is one of the best cars ever built, but I'd ditch it in a second if something better (excluding million dollar cars) came along. Not yet.
It may or may not be a fluke - but there is a lot to be said for customer service.

There will always be something better faster - question is how much tech are you willing to live with.

99% of Ferrari owners take off those nannies on a hard run or a track - it's not coming home.

I don't know the stats but Gallardo's are sitting on the showroom floor vs 9 month order request min.

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post #17 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 08:20 PM
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It may or may not be a fluke - but there is a lot to be said for customer service.

There will always be something better faster - question is how much tech are you willing to live with.

99% of Ferrari owners take off those nannies on a hard run or a track - it's not coming home.

I don't know the stats but Gallardo's are sitting on the showroom floor vs 9 month order request min.
The Gallardo replacement is coming, and they do have some terrible visual angles. At the time I had mine, it was ahead of F--luxury, reliability, AWD, power, direct injection, cost.

I've always been a tech whore but I do wonder where it ends. Optimal would be an efficient, streetable car with just enough tech to keep me safe, I guess. Subjectively I think the 458 is a pretty dangerous car, but perhaps it's just drama or temptation.

One thing is sure, I will blow hard-earned money on a slower car that is fun to drive.
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post #18 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 11:08 PM
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I don't agree at all that the 458 is dangerous, and find that a pretty ridiculous thing to say actually. There is nothing inherently dangerous about it, it is the driver that needs to use his head. Some people are incapable of that, but they would be just as dangerous in a Performante or 12C or any other high performance car.

I do agree that these cars are getting too powerful to enjoy fully on a public road. I would have been perfectly happy if my 458 had 100bhp less. But that's why I have classic Ferraris as well.


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post #19 of 22 Old 03-30-2012, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JayG View Post
Ferrari is the Toyota of supercars. They've been making essentially mass produced (for its segment) car for a long time. McLarens, Koenigsegg.... etc etc is so small that people cut them more slack because they know it's such a limited run there are going to be a lot of bugs but in the end they are glad to be a part of it.
You're wrong for the 12C, Jay. Projected (or rather: desired) production numbers are 4,000 per year. An F1 this ain't.


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post #20 of 22 Old 03-31-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by prayingrobot View Post
The Gallardo replacement is coming, and they do have some terrible visual angles. At the time I had mine, it was ahead of F--luxury, reliability, AWD, power, direct injection, cost.

I've always been a tech whore but I do wonder where it ends. Optimal would be an efficient, streetable car with just enough tech to keep me safe, I guess. Subjectively I think the 458 is a pretty dangerous car, but perhaps it's just drama or temptation.

One thing is sure, I will blow hard-earned money on a slower car that is fun to drive.
I hate tech besides the F1 paddles - I do believe it's a lot safer in spirited driving.

The Mclaren guys should be given a lot of credit - the 458 has been out for three years so the guys that went Mclaren knew they were tossing the dice.

The more competition the better off we all are - choices are a nice thing and raises the bar for customer service.

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