Just put a deposit on a 308 GTSi, need advice from the Ferrari experts - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 27 Old 08-19-2012, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Just put a deposit on a 308 GTSi, need advice from the Ferrari experts

Hello all!

I've had an interest in 308/328 Ferraris for many years and recently came across a decent 308 GTSi which I've put a deposit on. The 308 in question is a bit rough around the edges, and has an asking price of 28K which reflects the cars shortcomings. Here are my thoughts on the car so far. If you could give me your thoughts on the car and whether the price is fair considering the condition. Also, please let me know where I can get a PPI done. I'm leaning towards Daytona as the owner posts here fairly frequently and seems to do great and thorough work.

- The sub frame looks to be clean of rust. I did notice a little surface rust near the springs in the engine compartment, but nothing that caused to much concern.
- The engine has had a lot of care lavished on it. Pictures of the engine in 2006 when the last appraisal was done show a very tired looking engine. A major service in 2011 at Grant Turismo in Alliston replaced the belt, rebuilt the water pump, replaced most of the hoses, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and painted the valve covers and intake.
- The car has had a respray at some point which presents fairly well. If you get right up close there are definitely things to complain about. The respray was done the lazy way with the mirrors and most other trim being left on the car. Therefore the paint edges are rough in spots as they meet the trim. There is also a spot on the passenger door where a large section (4 sq in or so) has de-laminated.
- The body overall looks to be in good shape. The door gaps appear slightly larger than one would expect with both the driver and passenger door appearing about 0.5 cm ajar. I assume this can be adjusted. If someone can comment on this I'd appreciate it. The lower valance looks like it has ad a run-in with a rock or some debris on the road and is cracked. A hasty fix has been done as you can see from the overspray on the faux license plate. The rubber bumper is chewed up on the passenger side. I'd love to switch to a lower profile type of bumper if such a thing is available.
- The cabin is in decent shape. All of the switchgear is present and in worn but decent shape. The HVAC controls are all functional with the exception of the AC. Apparently the compressor has been pulled from the car but is available to reinstall. I suspect that I would need to replace all hoses and receiver drier at a minimum before reinstalling the compressor and recharging the system. If anyone has experience the with AC in a system that has been refreshed I'd live the hear about it. The seats are worn but do not have any large cracks or rips in the leather. The dash is in excellent shape with no warping or cracking. There is an ancient Alpine cassette stereo that needs to be replaced. There is surface rust on the arms of the pedal cluster (according to the wife who notices things like that ). The headlight switch only raises the passenger side light. The turn signal does not self cancel, is this normal? And the windows go up and down verrrry slowly. I've read that this is common so I'll be servicing the regulators soon.
- The targa top was in good shape. The seals are a little chewed up in spots but are apparently still serviceable.
- The clutch engagement was very solid and the gear changes were precise on up-shift and down-shift. The engine revved freely and sounded absolutely fantastic which I think shouldn't be a surprise to me or anyone else. It defnitely sounds sexier that the flat 6 in my other toy. The Italians have the lock on sex appeal whereas the Germans have the lock on precision and great beer . The steering was quite sloppy at the center and the brakes were a little soft. I've read that dead-on-center is one way to describe a 308's steering so I'd like to know whether this is normal. As for the brakes I think new fluid and a flush would tighten things up nicely.
- The car has approximately 96,000 KM on it and has receipts for parts and service dating back to the mid 2000s including a major service in 2011. It definitely doesn't have the full service history which is a concern when trying to resell.

Well, that's my impression of the car. Have a look at the pics and let me know what you think. Is it a good buy, or am I asking for trouble.

Jeremy
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post #2 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 12:46 AM
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Welcome to FL, harmonywolrd. Where are you located ?

I cannot offer valuable comments since I do not know much of these cars personally. However, saying that, if you are buying it from a dealer, I have my doubts, Of course unless, their reputation is positive.

Somehting about the way that car has been taken care of over the years just does not add up for me.

My question to you is, what is it about THIS car that attracts your interest besides the price ?

If you are patient, I am sure you can find much better ones. No need to jump off so fast.

Also, if you decide to get this one, how much work and budget are you planning on. ?

These are some of the basic questions to ponder. Good luck with your search.

I am sure in no time the experts would help you out here.

w/ smiles

Jimmy
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post #3 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS View Post
Welcome to FL, harmonywolrd. Where are you located ?

I cannot offer valuable comments since I do not know much of these cars personally. However, saying that, if you are buying it from a dealer, I have my doubts, Of course unless, their reputation is positive.

Somehting about the way that car has been taken care of over the years just does not add up for me.

My question to you is, what is it about THIS car that attracts your interest besides the price ?

If you are patient, I am sure you can find much better ones. No need to jump off so fast.

Also, if you decide to get this one, how much work and budget are you planning on. ?

These are some of the basic questions to ponder. Good luck with your search.

I am sure in no time the experts would help you out here.

w/ smiles

Jimmy
Hi Jimmy,

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. The car itself is on consignment at a local dealer north of the city called Orangeville Autosport. I can't say anything good or bad about their rep as I'm not that familiar with them.

I just finished a full and thorough restoration of my 86 911 Targa so I'm not one to shy away from a vehicle with a few issues. When I bought the Targa it was based on a PPI that showed the car had a solid engine, no rust, and was otherwise top notch mechanically. It was however cosmetically challenged which allowed me to pick it up for a great price. If this 308 is rust free, and has good compression and leakdown numbers, and is shown to be in good mechanical shape by the PPI then it could be a good buy. The cosmetic issues can be taken care of over time and I don't have much of a problem spending 10-20K doing that. I figure all of these cars will cost 40-50K when all is said and done. It's more fun for me to do the work to get it to the point where it's a 40-50K car. The main thing that concerns me is the lack of service records previous to the ones that were in the owners file at the dealership. Also, I don't know what kind of rep Gran Turismo in Alliston has for mechanical work.

J
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post #4 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by harmonyroad View Post
Hi Jimmy,

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. The car itself is on consignment at a local dealer north of the city called Orangeville Autosport. I can't say anything good or bad about their rep as I'm not that familiar with them.

I just finished a full and thorough restoration of my 86 911 Targa so I'm not one to shy away from a vehicle with a few issues. When I bought the Targa it was based on a PPI that showed the car had a solid engine, no rust, and was otherwise top notch mechanically. It was however cosmetically challenged which allowed me to pick it up for a great price. If this 308 is rust free, and has good compression and leakdown numbers, and is shown to be in good mechanical shape by the PPI then it could be a good buy. The cosmetic issues can be taken care of over time and I don't have much of a problem spending 10-20K doing that. I figure all of these cars will cost 40-50K when all is said and done. It's more fun for me to do the work to get it to the point where it's a 40-50K car. The main thing that concerns me is the lack of service records previous to the ones that were in the owners file at the dealership. Also, I don't know what kind of rep Gran Turismo in Alliston has for mechanical work.

J
That sounds wonderful. Looks like you have a better head on your shoulder than what I do !

Seriously, it is great that you know what you are looking for. I was a bit cautious becasue from that pic, the dealer appeared to be selling all kinds of cars, which is not a good sign for me because a lot of times, F is not their specialty. Anyway, from what you say, thee is no fear then. Let's hear from the others here and their viewpoints. Thanx.

w/ smiles

Jimmy
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post #5 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonyroad View Post
Hi Jimmy,

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. The car itself is on consignment at a local dealer north of the city called Orangeville Autosport. I can't say anything good or bad about their rep as I'm not that familiar with them.

I just finished a full and thorough restoration of my 86 911 Targa so I'm not one to shy away from a vehicle with a few issues. When I bought the Targa it was based on a PPI that showed the car had a solid engine, no rust, and was otherwise top notch mechanically. It was however cosmetically challenged which allowed me to pick it up for a great price. If this 308 is rust free, and has good compression and leakdown numbers, and is shown to be in good mechanical shape by the PPI then it could be a good buy. The cosmetic issues can be taken care of over time and I don't have much of a problem spending 10-20K doing that. I figure all of these cars will cost 40-50K when all is said and done. It's more fun for me to do the work to get it to the point where it's a 40-50K car. The main thing that concerns me is the lack of service records previous to the ones that were in the owners file at the dealership. Also, I don't know what kind of rep Gran Turismo in Alliston has for mechanical work.

J
Good color combination - looks solid and if you have the stomach for a complete restoration and a long term relationship it looks like the right Ferrari for you.

I would rather rip one apart and put it together myself or pay someone over trusting someone else that is was done right.

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post #6 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonyroad View Post
Hi Jimmy,

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. The car itself is on consignment at a local dealer north of the city called Orangeville Autosport. I can't say anything good or bad about their rep as I'm not that familiar with them.

I just finished a full and thorough restoration of my 86 911 Targa so I'm not one to shy away from a vehicle with a few issues. When I bought the Targa it was based on a PPI that showed the car had a solid engine, no rust, and was otherwise top notch mechanically. It was however cosmetically challenged which allowed me to pick it up for a great price. If this 308 is rust free, and has good compression and leakdown numbers, and is shown to be in good mechanical shape by the PPI then it could be a good buy. The cosmetic issues can be taken care of over time and I don't have much of a problem spending 10-20K doing that. I figure all of these cars will cost 40-50K when all is said and done. It's more fun for me to do the work to get it to the point where it's a 40-50K car. The main thing that concerns me is the lack of service records previous to the ones that were in the owners file at the dealership. Also, I don't know what kind of rep Gran Turismo in Alliston has for mechanical work.

J
I have seen this car & also spoke to Brett at G/T about it.

I sent you a PM
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post #7 of 27 Old 08-20-2012, 09:33 AM
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I'm not that familiar with the 308 market, but I would say that seems a high price for it's condition.
I would worry that a number of issues are lurking under the surface.
And I would also add that if the car needs bodywork (likely) and then a respray, that will easily eat up your $15-20K estimate long before you get to any mechanical issues.

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post #8 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 03:50 AM
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If you want a good ppi done take it to Daytona or Rocks Automotive.

Find out what the leak down and compression #s are. If the engine needs rebuilding look for another car. At 96k I don't think its a stretch to say its a very tired car. A rebuild will be almost the cost of the car. Add on to that all the other issues you will be upside down before you know it.

The Ac itself could cost some bucks. You will most likely have to change the hoses running to the front, the compressor if its pooched can be replaced but if the clutch is broken then you will start having fun finding a replacement. You may consider converting the system at that point.

Body work, yes it can be crazy money to make it right.

The interior, factor in 10 - 15k to redo to make it new.

It all depends what you want a Ferrari or a shadow of its former self.

Always try to buy the best one possible. Don't listen to promisses of cheap fixes.

Last edited by Fave; 08-23-2012 at 04:04 AM.
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post #9 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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It's unfortunate, but this car will likely continue on a long slide into oblivion unless some other person decides to take it on as a charity case. After speaking with MarioZ and the Owner of the shop that most recently performed service it would appear the vehicle isn't quite as it is represented. Even though it runs well and shifts like a champ the combination of the rest of it's sins are too great. Couple that with an over the top asking price considering condition and it is something to walk from.

The search will continue for a decent driver in the 30K range that has had better care taken of it.

Thanks to all who've taken the time to provide advice!!
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post #10 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 AM
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Glad to help, that's one of the main benefits of this site. There's too many good examples for sale, and no one needs that kind of headache for their first Ferrari.

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post #11 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Forums like this are fantastic. For those in the know, that are willing to commit just a little time to research, there is a wealth of knowledge that can be tapped into. Unfortunately there are too many that don't take advantage of it and suffer as a result. Hopefully I'll find the right one soon.
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post #12 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 12:12 PM
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you have learned the most important lesson of ferrari buying grasshopper. Patience.



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post #13 of 27 Old 08-23-2012, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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you have learned the most important lesson of ferrari buying grasshopper. Patience.
Arigato sensei!
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post #14 of 27 Old 09-19-2012, 11:56 AM
 
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I have a 348 blak on black for sale looking to sell to get into a family car now. Let me know if you are interested
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post #15 of 27 Old 09-24-2012, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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I have a 348 blak on black for sale looking to sell to get into a family car now. Let me know if you are interested
Thanks for the offer. I just picked up a very nice 308.

Last edited by harmonyroad; 09-24-2012 at 09:09 PM.
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post #16 of 27 Old 09-26-2012, 05:29 PM
 
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Hi J , welcome to the ferrari world. I hope you enjoy the red 308 you purchased. If i can help in service please let me know . You will have fun with it. I hope you will enjoy your new toy like Vince did when he owned the car.
Thanks
Alex.
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post #17 of 27 Old 09-30-2012, 06:04 PM
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Thanks for the offer. I just picked up a very nice 308.
let's see some pics

congratulations
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post #18 of 27 Old 10-01-2012, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hi J , welcome to the ferrari world. I hope you enjoy the red 308 you purchased. If i can help in service please let me know . You will have fun with it. I hope you will enjoy your new toy like Vince did when he owned the car.
Thanks
Alex.
Hi Alex,

Thanks again for all the help you've given me throughout the purchase process. I can't wait to get in it and drive before the snow hits the ground!

J
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post #19 of 27 Old 10-01-2012, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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let's see some pics

congratulations
Thanks Mario! I tried to post some pics this morning but can't for some reason. As soon as the problem is cleared I'll post a few nice shots.

J
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post #20 of 27 Old 10-01-2012, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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