Mondial Alternator Help! - Ferrari Life
 
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Mondial Alternator Help!

My alternator packed up today been looking for a new one and noticed its a Bosch 85A. These I thought were universal and used on many cars and can be picked up quite cheaply is this true? or are the ones used on ferrari's different to regular ones?

Eurospares are like 700 and other places you can pick them up for around 180. So big difference.

Also dont mind fetching this off of the car myself....as anyone done this before, it seems quite straight forward....is it?

Any help on this would be great, I want to get it done asap, cant stand not being able to drive it. Its a 3.2 QV 1986.

Daz
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:11 AM
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Here's what I have been saving about the 348 alternator rebuild which I hope should help you:

348 Alternator Rebuild


I recently removed and rebuilt the alternator in my 348. A rebuilt the alternator in a 355 using updated parts is herein listed the parts used :

The old Transpo regulator (part #IN220) has a tendancy to go bad, and I think they are a piece of junk. I had the alternator rebuilt a few years ago and the shop that rebuilt it used the standard Transpo parts and they ended up failing on me again. The battery light would also come on when I would get into the upper rpm's. Well since the alternator crapped out on me I wrote down the part numbers that jm3 used on his rebuild and went to the the alternator shop to order them.

Here are the Regitar part numbers:

regulator - #VRH2005-4A
rectifier - #RN-02

Well when I ordered them the supplier to the shop told them that a company named USI made a better regulator than the Regitar. Not that the Regitar was a bad regulator but that the one USI made was just better. So I figured why not and ordered the USI regulator. That way we have two alternatives to choose from over the crappy Tranpso part. I still used the Regitar rectifier though.

Here is the USI part number:

regulator - #00632, 71-30003/SCP

Unit2 electric in Ventura was a big help in getting the parts for me.

Since I had all the stuff I figured you guys would like a how-to on the removal and rebuild, and yes I did take pictures. Oh yeah one more thing, this is for the Nippondenso alternator, so you can use the parts for a 348 or a 355.


I have successfully improved the F355 Nippondenso alternator. It would have taken one day, but I was sent on a wild goose chase by a defective-out-of-the-box regulator.

The parts to buy are:
A regulator, brand name Regitar, part number VRH2005-4A
A rectifier (optional), which needs a minor mod, Regitar RN-02

The only place I found that sells them online is
http://www.holcombedirect.com/browse.cfm/2,55.html

The defective part I bought was a Transpo IN220, and during my visit to the alternator dyno, they told me that they had occasional trouble with Transpo (assembled in Costa Rica) and had the best results with Regitar (says made in USA on the box fwiw)

Dyno of totally stock alternator was 13.6 volts at 139 amps for 5 minutes.
Dyno of improved alternator was 14.1 volts at 161 amps for 5 minutes.

The gains are more from the regulator than the rectifier, we tested both.

The goal however is increased reliability. The VRH2005-4A regulator has some features that the stock one does not have in terms of circuitry to prevent shorts or failure when confronted by a battery, belt or wiring problem. The RN-02 rectifier, which is where the diodes turn AC into DC, is very heavy duty. The new rectifier is all copper instead of steel, welded diodes instead of soldered, thicker mount for the battery stud. The 6mm battery stud from the new regulator needs to be replaced with the 8mm stud from the original rectifier. This is reversible for future concours, where the rectifier part numbers must be original.

I also replaced all the tiny cheesy screws with allen bolts, which made life much easier. They are all 4mm x 0.7 pitch, and I needed 3 for the regulator 5mm long, 4 for the diodes 5mm long, and 2 for the regulator case at 20mm long. The local hardware store didn't have 5mm allens, so I shortened some 10mm ones on a sander.

http://www.wi-tek.com.cn/ENGLISH/En_...?ArticleID=165

http://www.regitar.com/automotive/di...art.asp?ID=968

Elreg price quote for Delco parts:


Rectifier: 311-618XHD $8.23
Regulator: 101-670HD $9.72

Here is the Regitar regulator you'll need http://www.holcombedirect.com/browse.cfm/4,569.htm,
and this is the correct rectifier http://www.holcombedirect.com/browse.cfm/4,478.htm.

the Delco CS130 and the Nippodenso, stronger rectifiers are available at little cost. Finding the parts for a Delco is a click at eBay, complete kits with regulator, rectifier, bearings and brushes for something like 30$, look for “ALTERNATOR REPAIR KIT DELCO CS130”

Okay fellas hear it IS!

http://www.wai-wetherill.com/product...um=1-1410-01ND

On this page they list all the parts used in the Nippondenso http://www.wai-wetherill.com/product...tem=100211-617

It comes out of a 1991-1995 Acura Legend. It's a Nippondenso 1-1410-01ND or 100211-617. I called up an Acura dealer and got a brand new price of $346. The Honda part number is 31100PY3013. It's the same part number for a 2 and 4 door Legend.

The only difference I saw was that the Acura alternator uses a INR226 regulator as compaired to the INR220 that comes out of ours. But that's okay because I'll bet the INR226 is a little bit better than the INR220.

Even though the regulator that is used in the Acura isn't the correct one I have found what CARS have the correct regulator IN220.

It is found in a:

1990-1991 Lexus ES250 2.5L engine code VZV21
1989-1990 Toyota Camry 2.5L engine code 2VZFE
1986-1989 Toyota Celica 2.0L engine code 3SGTE


The Toyota alternator part number is 27060-62040, -63020, & -63082. The alternator is a NIPPONDENSO 100211-830. Keep in mind this IS NOT our alternator. Those are just the alternators that use the IN220 Tranpso regulator that comes standard in the alternators for our 348/355's. So if you are looking for just the regulator those are the alternators that use the IN220.

my alternator update, during my 348 major service.

I ordered the Regitar regulator that Ernie found, but after finding a local major supplier with Nippondenso sources (Turbo & Electric), I ordered an original replacement direct from Nippondenso for the original regulator. The Regitar doesn't have an extra capacitor on it (extra leads that Ernie mentioned), while the original does. After waiting over 4mo. with the regulator not showing up, I put the alternator back together with the Regitar. I'm sure it will work fine. I'll probably still check with T&D and may pick up the OEM if it ever shows up, as a spare. It is much more $ than the Regitar, though.

Also, I ran into the same wrong-sized belt problem that sspooner mentioned in this thread:

The new alternator belt I had came with the 348 major kit that I bought from Ricambi a year ago. As sspooner mentioned, mine was also too small!! It barely fit on, even without the tensioner installed! When I ordered the Ricambi kit, there were only 2 options offered.... Nippondenso and Delco, so I was not aware that Ricambi lists a larger Nippondenso belt for the "90A alternator". This belt is mentioned a couple posts above by GeorgeW.

At any rate, I decided to order the belt that worked for Sspooner in his thread, and it also worked perfectly for me! It was only $9.95 at Rockauto.com , which is the only easy place I could find it. It is listed, however, as a standard part in Dayco's belt lists. It's a Dayco Poly Cog #5050310. This belt is listed as a 770mm belt. Nice to also know that Ricambi has the 144909 770mm belt if the (apparently) normal Nippondenso belt doesn't work for you.

As a side note, I'm pretty sure that my car originally had a Delco and was upgraded. Not sure how that was normally handled, but when I removed my front timing chain cover, I found two driver's side studs that were about an inch or more too long. These both had an aluminum sleeve to make up this space for the nut, and I think the original Delco bracket fit over these longer studs. I've never seen one, though, so am not 100% sure. Can't see any other reason for the excessively long studs, though.
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:45 AM
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good post Greg: However, after just getting mine entirely redone, after a re-build from three years ago, not sure another rebuild would have worked. Took 7 hours to get in/out of there.

PS: He mentioned a Mondi QV Not sure it equates to the 348 series. AND the earlyier 348 series were replaced with an updated version...very expensive in it needs all new stuff in there.

rik

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Old 05-04-2009, 11:06 AM
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Actually I have been saving this but was not sure of its applicability here not having a Mondial myself.

I thought it might be of interest so that the handy guys could look for an alternative (no pun intended) parts availability as a possible cure.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Actually I have been saving this but was not sure of its applicability here not having a Mondial myself.

I thought it might be of interest so that the handy guys could look for an alternative (no pun intended) parts availability as a possible cure.
Great to see you only spent limited time on this matter - were you in the electronics club in school by any chance.

Honestly - fantastic piece, great notes and a very helpful insight to what can be achieved with a bit of ingenuity.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:25 PM
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Actually my undergraduate degree in in biology, chemistry, physics, and math.

My professional degree is law.

Now figure that out!!!
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Actually I have been saving this but was not sure of its applicability here not having a Mondial myself.

I thought it might be of interest so that the handy guys could look for an alternative (no pun intended) parts availability as a possible cure.

great info, not to be dissed'

and as for an alternative alternator = straight current, not DC/AC?

couldn't resist that one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Actually my undergraduate degree in in biology, chemistry, physics, and math.

My professional degree is law.

Now figure that out!!!

Isn't that a professional hit man that actually can figure the odds.

or

...naw, your a nice guy, you've given the lawer name too good a face.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Actually my undergraduate degree in in biology, chemistry, physics, and math.

My professional degree is law.

Now figure that out!!!
That figures. My cousin did Art, English and History for A-level (2yrs), then went to University in the UK and got a 1st in Geography - 3 yrs (after touring South America on coursework - GREAT HOLIDAY), then did his Masters in Computer Science (for 1 yr) and ended up working freelance for MS on a $500,000+/yr package.

So you make total sense. Question is - did you become a lawyer or do something completely different instead.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJS612 View Post
--So you make total sense. Question is - did you become a lawyer or do something completely different instead.
Both and have been in business for a long time.

May go back to law in a year or so.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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???

The 348 is different to mine. Ive been told they are not too hard to get off as its underneath and accessible. I think the first thing to do is have the regulator and the rectifier changed on it hopefully that should cost about 80 and usually does the trick.

Any more hints, tips or advice on where or what would be greatly appreciated

Darren
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:58 AM
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Bottom line is they are all made the same way.

It's an easy thing to rebuild an alternator. Just get it out and find the replacement parts.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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thanks

Just looked I guess its easier with the drivers side rear wheel off, inner wing out and then I can assess......Ill check the belt and then get it off for rebuild. Seems like a painless and relatively cheap job to do.

thanks
Darren
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:24 AM
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thinking you are correct. Post pics if you can, and keep us updated.

rik

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Old 05-05-2009, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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certainly will. Gonna tackle it tomorrow.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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all done

After getting it off and taking it for a rebuild its now back on and working properly. Im no mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but got it off and put it back on myself and all it cost me for a fully reconditioned unit was 110 so very happy indeed. It was a failed Diode I think he said.....what I expected anyway.

Didnt bother having just the part replaced instead had the whole lot done, It came back looking like a brand new part, all shot blasted and re painted.....well happy. 12 months guarantee to boot.

It was so nice to get back in and have a drive, id missed it!

Thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated. Daz.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:19 PM
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happy update and nice to understand some things don't require a mechanical degree.

However, the alternator I had to change, completely, on the Mondial T a couple weeks ago, was a seven hour job by a very qualified/respected mechanic. The T's are a bit more problem to get into, as everything else that engine presents. My final cost which included the upgraded [Ferrari release notes version, not the OEM from build date] = approx. $2,500 USD. 8|

rik

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Old 05-21-2009, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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om my goodness.....think I did well for 110 then.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:31 PM
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I have a 3.2 as well, took the alternator off, and had it rebuilt at a local alternator shop to put out 110 amps for a couple of hundred US bucks. At today's exchange rate I'd guess that be two quid fifty. Rebuild parts are WIDELY common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren MondialQV View Post
My alternator packed up today been looking for a new one and noticed its a Bosch 85A. These I thought were universal and used on many cars and can be picked up quite cheaply is this true? or are the ones used on ferrari's different to regular ones?

Eurospares are like 700 and other places you can pick them up for around 180. So big difference.

Also dont mind fetching this off of the car myself....as anyone done this before, it seems quite straight forward....is it?

Any help on this would be great, I want to get it done asap, cant stand not being able to drive it. Its a 3.2 QV 1986.

Daz
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj5 View Post
I have a 3.2 as well, took the alternator off, and had it rebuilt at a local alternator shop to put out 110 amps for a couple of hundred US bucks. At today's exchange rate I'd guess that be two quid fifty. Rebuild parts are WIDELY common.
BUMP: Caught this late. SNJ KNOWs this model and his stuff. His dialing timing belt wheels are awsome, not to mention his booster on this 3.2 kicking it up a few HPs .

now, back into the dusty archives.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


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Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:03 PM
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You should see the muffler SNJ5 built as well.
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