[rcollum]

I've read that people tend to get attached to what they experienced in their prime. Look at how many people wear the style of clothing they got comfortable with in high school/college. Notice how expensive muscle cars have gotten, now that the generation that grew up coveting them is older and has money. Musical tastes often seem to also be related to what we loved in our youth.

I thought of this while I was looking at the cars at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. One thing that really hit me was that two of my favorite cars on display were 1968 models. I'd argue that the mid- to late sixties contributed a lot to auto styling. Among my personal favorites are the Ford GT40 and the Lamborghini Miura.

As a senior in high school in 1969, I saw a Toyota 2000GT on the showroom floor of a used car dealership across the street from my school. It had originally been what looked like a metallic red, but had been inexpertly repainted white, with poorly-masked original paint showing in several areas. Still, the shape was stunning. I had probably already seen this car's topless 2-off sister car in the Bond movie You Only Live Twice, but did not associate the two.

Here's my two examples for why 1968 was a great year.

--Bob Collum

[barcheta]

Great post!

I don't know about prime but I do wholeheartedly agree that almost everything automotive design related after 1970 is ugly at best. With a few exceptions, like a '84 288 GTO, and maybe a few one off show cars. I think some of that has to do with the smallness of the design community back then and the competitive nature that people like Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell and Pininfarina showcased in their design language. The late 50s and all of the 60s produced clean organic looking designs that have proved to be timeless. I consider the Lamborghini Miura to be the most beautiful car ever mass produced.

[cribbj]

Bob those first two pics of the 2000GT show perfectly why it was called the Japanese E-Type when it came out.

It was the predecessor to the Supra, but many people still mistakenly think it was a "me too" response to Datsun's 240Z. In fact the 2000GT was only produced for a couple of years and was finished by 1970, and the 240Z didn't hit the streets 'till a year or two later.

And you're so right about the era. Back then, car curves emulated a beautiful woman's body; these days most designs (especially the Lambo's & Japanese) look like they belong in a Tron movie.

[barcheta]

Not to split hairs but the 240Z or Fairlady Z as it was called in Japan debuted in October 1969. This would actually have made it a response to Toyota's 2000GT. Its a shame they didn't make more of those Toyotas and an even bigger shame they only produced 2 convertibles. I always thought the 240 had a strong hint of Ferrari 275 GTB in it. Might be why I sought one out for my first sportscar.

[bryanp]

Fed regs starting in '68 were the beginning of the end.

the Alfa Stradale is pure sex. Seeing one in person at the AROC show in Frederick last summer was unreal.

Just noticed your new avatar, Jim; excellent!

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

+1 to all. All of the cars mentioned were creative and artistic. The pics do not convey how small and compact these cars are actually. w/ smiles Jimmy

[rcollum]

Originally Posted by barcheta

Great post!

I don't know about prime but I do wholeheartedly agree that almost everything automotive design related after 1970 is ugly at best. With a few exceptions, like a '84 288 GTO, and maybe a few one off show cars. I think some of that has to do with the smallness of the design community back then and the competitive nature that people like Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell and Pininfarina showcased in their design language. The late 50s and all of the 60s produced clean organic looking designs that have proved to be timeless. I consider the Lamborghini Miura to be the most beautiful car ever mass produced.

I agree on the Miura - just beautiful. Below are some Miura pictures - one from Goodwood, the rest from Katie's last year.

I also believe it's hard to beat the XKE for simple, beautiful lines.

The Dino is one of my all-time favorites, and the 288 GTO is a very satisfying shape, too.

As for what I like that's new - the Jag C-X75 turbine hybrid is massive and voluptuous. The Alfas - especially the 4C - look to me to be as good as any produced lately. (The flat-red paint sure is eye catching, but I just wouldn't get it because everyone seems to need to rub their dirty hands on it, and years down the road, the shape will still be beautiful, but flat paint will scream 2011!!!)

--Bob Collum

[barcheta]

That Alfa definitely seems to have a hint of Lancia Stratos in the quarter window.... Its interesting to see what kinds of design get recycled. Almost all of these newer generation designs employ design queues from the '60s and some from the '50s as well... like flat paint.





Wonder how long it'll be before fins make a comeback?

[rcollum]

Someone owns - or at least did own - a Stratos locally. I believe it's the Hawk replica - which is so accurate a copy, I'm told 'real' Stratos owners source their bodywork from Hawk. I saw a picture of it over a year ago, from Church of the Holy Donut. I haven't seen it since, and can't find anybody who knows where it is. I'd love to see it at Katie's.

I'm intrigued by the Group B rally cars, but especially the Stratos. The ultra-low, very short-wheelbased design, combined with good (for the time) power made it exciting. On Top Gear, The Stig drove a Hawk replica on the track, and spun it, TWICE! Even so, his time was not that far behind the rest of the competition cars on the board. If a professional driver can't handle it, it must be squirelly. The modern, shortened 430 Scuderia-based replica being made must be insane!

--Bob Collum

[lashss]

Agreed 100%...the Golden Era, when safety regulations and fuel economy were of no concern...

I wish I was around to experience it!

LS

[lashss]

Conceived near the end of the Golden Era by the master himself...Guigiaro...

[wetpet]

I am assuming from your post you are asking if the best design era was 1964-1969? Don't know if that was an era, but even if it was, i don't know that it was the best. quite a few other time spans were at least as impressive. hell the time span just before it 1960-64 was pretty damn good. As were time spans in the 20's, 30's and 50's. I would say from about 25-40 was the "best" design era myself.

[wetpet]

there is one in gaithersburg and it ain't no replica. I don't allow my son in replicas.

Originally Posted by rcollum

Someone owns - or at least did own - a Stratos locally. I believe it's the Hawk replica - which is so accurate a copy, I'm told 'real' Stratos owners source their bodywork from Hawk. I saw a picture of it over a year ago, from Church of the Holy Donut. I haven't seen it since, and can't find anybody who knows where it is. I'd love to see it at Katie's.



--Bob Collum

[wetpet]

i don't know jim. There are quite a few designs that are ground breaking and iconic. I could name many but, let's start with the Countach, F40, F50, Enzo, MC12, diablo, hell, i even think the lowly 308 is one of the most beautiful and iconic ferraris. I haven't seen one yet, but i have high hopes for the aventador as well.

let me just say that i think the late sixties was a golden era. Love many of the designs, particularly because i was a kid then. But let's not sell short cars like the talbot-lago. or the merc ssk. i don't think the late 60's will go down as "the best", but it sure was good.

Originally Posted by barcheta

Great post!

I don't know about prime but I do wholeheartedly agree that almost everything automotive design related after 1970 is ugly at best. With a few exceptions, like a '84 288 GTO, and maybe a few one off show cars. I think some of that has to do with the smallness of the design community back then and the competitive nature that people like Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell and Pininfarina showcased in their design language. The late 50s and all of the 60s produced clean organic looking designs that have proved to be timeless. I consider the Lamborghini Miura to be the most beautiful car ever mass produced.

[barcheta]

Originally Posted by wetpet

I am assuming from your post you are asking if the best design era was 1964-1969? Don't know if that was an era, but even if it was, i don't know that it was the best. quite a few other time spans were at least as impressive. hell the time span just before it 1960-64 was pretty damn good. As were time spans in the 20's, 30's and 50's. I would say from about 25-40 was the "best" design era myself.

Many designs that came to market during those years were in fact developed and conceptualized up to a decade before they were actually produced. So yes in those terms it can be defined as an era. The emphasis was less on safety and more on style. Same could be said of the 20s and 30s. I would agree with you that there was a lull in design from 1940 till about 49. But even then could you really call it a lull or simply a shift in focus while the war effort spun up? I think the aircraft that were developed during those years were just as spectacular to look at as the cars that followed. The difference is that there seemed to be a spotlight cast on the era from the 50s and 60s. This is a timeframe when the designers were almost as popular as the cars they were producing. Guys like Deep and I mentioned in addition to guys like Raymond Lowey spearheaded design and gave it a face so to speak.

I think in the end its a question of what moves you. I'm sure someone out there would relish in the design details of the AMC Matador or Pacer..... just not me.

[bryanp]

For me it is difficult to pick a single "greatest" period. There are definitely very special cars from each; I also appreciate cars that were groundbreaking for their era. One of my favorites is the Alfa Romeo 1900 Disco Volante of 1952; body by Carrozzeria Touring. It is tiny - and think about what else was on the road in 1952 . . .

Back when they designed aerodynamics w/ the eye and not a wind tunnel.

[wetpet]

very cool. have never seen one. Does it fly?

[rcollum]

Originally Posted by wetpet

there is one in gaithersburg and it ain't no replica. I don't allow my son in replicas.

That's it!!! Any possibilty we can get the owner to bring the Stratos out some Saturday?

====

My main goal in creating this thread was to get some feedback of what people thought were 'golden ages' of car design. My knowledge of pre-50's cars is pretty sparse, but I have to say I loved the Auburn Boattail Speedster replica Chuck W. had at Katie's once last year, and Ian's Bentley is very impressive.

I'm interested in the varied impressions of others. Though I am a British car owner, turns out I am drawn to the Italian designs more than anything else. The Maserati Ghibli and Bora, I can stare at for hours. I love the Dino for its curves. I'd never seen the Alfa Tipo 33 Stradale before last week, but it fascinated me. Of the new cars on display, I'd say the Alfas - from the 4C to the Mitos - interested me most.

Current-model Astons DB9s and Vantages ooze presence to me.

For a time, years ago, I loved the Avanti, and read up on Raymond Loewy - quite an amazing man. I first knew Giugiaro from early works like the Scirocco and the Esprit. I have been surprised to find out how many cars I find attractive that he had a hand in.

I just love this stuff!

--Bob Collum

[barcheta]

It is very cool stuff indeed.

[rcollum]

Now, in some cases, I love the looks of a competition car strictly because it is ideal for its purpose. In this category, I put the Porsche 917, Ferrari 512, and Lotus 72. To me, these cars typify the beauty of their singular purpose.

I think I like the original Ford GT40 for both reasons - aesthetics and purposefulness. The Lancia Stratos, for me, works both as a voluptuous exotic, and in the exaggerated rally configuration.

--Bob Collum