[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

what's comically sad about that is Cadillac now has cars that can legitimately be compared head to head against BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus....and they COULD, at Plaza.

but not any more

only one Caddy dealer in STL county? BIG mistake IMO. they don't need six but 2 or 3 for sure.

Caddy's are no longer you're grandparents car. They've definitely gotten with the times, plus, they're selling, with over 10,000 sold last month alone: Cadillac U.S. Retail Sales Rise 5 Percent in June

I met the Lindberg's a while back at an FCA event, nice guys, I wonder what they're up to nowadays.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by rollsorferrari?

Caddy's are no longer you're grandparents car. They've definitely gotten with the times, plus, they're selling, with over 10,000 sold last month alone: Cadillac U.S. Retail Sales Rise 5 Percent in June

I met the Lindberg's a while back at an FCA event, nice guys, I wonder what they're up to nowadays.

I feel really bad for that family, they had a piece of the equity of Enterprise and sold it back to the Taylors in the 70's (IIRC), then had their franchise pulled by GM. they could have been billionaires, now...... who knows.

[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

I feel really bad for that family, they had a piece of the equity of Enterprise and sold it back to the Taylors in the 70's (IIRC), then had their franchise pulled by GM. they could have been billionaires, now...... who knows.

Was it one of Lindbergh's dealerships that Enterprise started in? Tough break, similar to selling Apple at $30 a share thinking that was it

Something tells me they're doing ok though.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by rollsorferrari?

Was it one of Lindbergh's dealerships that Enterprise started in? Tough break, similar to selling Apple at $30 a share thinking that was it

Something tells me they're doing ok though.

yep, the dealership was in Clayton I think.

and I don't think they're standing in line at the soup kitchen but still...

[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

yep, the dealership was in Clayton I think.

and I don't think they're standing in line at the soup kitchen but still...

I know where you're getting at. 1,000 millions is 1,000 X better than 1 million

[Scuderia STL]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

what's comically sad about that is Cadillac now has cars that can legitimately be compared head to head against BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus....and they COULD, at Plaza.

but not any more

No kidding. I'm not a huge Plaza fan, but there's no better place to comparison shop, and therefore, no better place for a Cadillac dealer IMO.

only one Caddy dealer in STL county? BIG mistake IMO. they don't need six but 2 or 3 for sure.

Big mistake indeed. Based on a completely unscientific license plate frame survey, I still see quite a few Cadillacs around town that were apparently sold and/or maintained at Lindburg Cadillac. St. Louis County can support trios of Audi and BMW dealers and pairs of Mercedes-Benz and Porsche dealers, so I'm pretty sure it could support more than one Cadillac dealer. If you're cross shopping dealers, it's a bit of a drive to competing Cadillac dealers now.

Because I have a strong interest in cars and history, I am a dork. Because I'm a dork, I know that Clinton Cadillac, which once did business on the South Kingshighway New Car Row, moved in the mid-1970s to Crestwood. Lindburg Cadillac was on Market Street near Jefferson downtown. Lindberg sold that dealership, and then the Crestwood dealer became Clinton-Lindburg before dropping the Clinton name around 2000 or so.

The irony here is that Plaza Motors had a hand in Lindburg's fate. Here are two excerpts from the Post-Dispatch from way back when:

Subject to approval by General Motors, Plaza Motors in Creve Coeur will temporarily house the Cadillac dealership it is planning to relocate from Lindburg, west of downtown. A separate building may be on the rise in Creve Coeur. Meanwhile, the Forsythe Group has a purchase contract for the site of Lindburg Cadillac, at Jefferson Avenue at Market Street, where it plans to construct an office complex and a Marriott Courtyard Inn. - St. Louis Post-Dispatch, April 20, 1988

And...

[W]hen Lindburg Cadillac at Market Street and Jefferson Avenue was for sale, GM allegedly spurned buyers who would have kept the dealership downtown and "actively encouraged" the purchase and relocation of the Lindburg dealership to Creve Coeur by Plaza Motors. - November 30, 1992

Yep, that sounds like GM. Meanwhile, Boulevard Motors sold Mercedes-Benz nearby for a few more years, before it became Tri-Star and moved to Ellisville in the 1990s.

I need another hobby. Did I mention that I'm willing to babysit Bentleys?

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Scuderia STL

I need another hobby.

uhhhhh....yeah.

[rollsorferrari?]

Nice post Matt. I think there's enough car related stuff that's happened in STL to write an encyclopedia, with 1 or 2 volumes dedicated to dealers around town. Anyone remember when Corvettes were built here in town? Or back when outside of Detroit STL was one of the worlds largest car manufacturing areas? Or all the bickering that's gone on between dealers? Or the fact that per capita STL has more "exotic" car dealers than pretty much everywhere else?

[champagne612]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

I feel really bad for that family, they had a piece of the equity of Enterprise and sold it back to the Taylors in the 70's (IIRC), then had their franchise pulled by GM. they could have been billionaires, now...... who knows.

Don't feel bad - they and dealers like them enabled GM to go broke.

[champagne612]

am almost positive Plaza bought Reuther to place a Cadillac store in.

Maybe they are placing Jaguar there - but for some reason I thought Cadillac was relocating there.

Plaza is out of space - land locked idiots.

Cadillac is the rising star 100% - agreement - but IMO GM does have their act together and sales are indicating it.

Less dealers is the way to go - too many cars sit at on too many lots doesn't do anyone any good.

Days of inventory kill dealers and factories - at the end of the day that's the biggest killer.

Calling around and seeing your special new car at 3 other dealers doesn't help anyone.

[Scuderia STL]

Originally Posted by rollsorferrari?

Nice post Matt. I think there's enough car related stuff that's happened in STL to write an encyclopedia, with 1 or 2 volumes dedicated to dealers around town. Anyone remember when Corvettes were built here in town? Or back when outside of Detroit STL was one of the worlds largest car manufacturing areas? Or all the bickering that's gone on between dealers? Or the fact that per capita STL has more "exotic" car dealers than pretty much everywhere else?

Thanks. Depending on your perspective, it's either interesting local car history or a cure for insomnia. Glad you stayed awake! And, you aren't kidding, there is more than enough local automotive history to write an encyclopedia!

[Scuderia STL]

Doug, you're right about Plaza's interest in Reuther, but it looks like it's for a new Jaguar/Land Rover showroom:

Plaza Motors has designs on Reuther auto property...

Right now, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Fisker share space in the former Cadillac showroom, and Jaguar and Land Rover showrooms have been combined elsewhere. I'm still puzzled by Cadillac maintaining just one showroom in a county of one million people, but I get your point, Doug, about fewer dealers being the way forward for GM. (I just think they might have killed at least one freestanding showroom a bit too soon!)

[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by champagne612

am almost positive Plaza bought Reuther to place a Cadillac store in.

Maybe they are placing Jaguar there - but for some reason I thought Cadillac was relocating there.

Plaza is out of space - land locked idiots.

Cadillac is the rising star 100% - agreement - but IMO GM does have their act together and sales are indicating it.

Less dealers is the way to go - too many cars sit at on too many lots doesn't do anyone any good.

Days of inventory kill dealers and factories - at the end of the day that's the biggest killer.

Calling around and seeing your special new car at 3 other dealers doesn't help anyone.

I understand they wanted to put a Target at Reuther, but either that fell through or Plaza made a "you're an idiot if you pass this up" kind of offer for Reuther's lot. A little birdie confirmed to me a week back that Plaza bought Reuther's lot.

[GuyIncognito]

wait, if Caddy is gone from Plaza and Jag/LR move to the Reuther lot, what goes in the big main showroom? surely Fisker doesn't need that much space.

[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

wait, if Caddy is gone from Plaza and Jag/LR move to the Reuther lot, what goes in the big main showroom? surely Fisker doesn't need that much space.

I wonder if they're gearing up to take on a luxury brand...Ferrari???

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by rollsorferrari?

I wonder if they're gearing up to take on a luxury brand...Ferrari???

Ferrari would make them build a new showroom, I think.

and I genuinely don't think FNA gives a rat's ass about the STL market. I think that's been proven more than once

[rollsorferrari?]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

Ferrari would make them build a new showroom, I think.

and I genuinely don't think FNA gives a rat's ass about the STL market. I think that's been proven more than once

Agreed, but then again $ cures most ill will.

[rollsorferrari?]

When you stop to think about it, the only large volume exotic franchise that isn't represented in STL is Ferrari (Spyker, Koenigsegg, etc. probably won't be coming to town anytime soon)

Center of the USA is a good marketing ploy, plus with anywhere from 300-500 within 100 miles of downtown makes a service center a no brainer. As evidenced here, having to ship a car to Chicago for factory service is a major pain.

[champagne612]

Originally Posted by rollsorferrari?

I understand they wanted to put a Target at Reuther, but either that fell through or Plaza made a "you're an idiot if you pass this up" kind of offer for Reuther's lot. A little birdie confirmed to me a week back that Plaza bought Reuther's lot.

Target LOL

It's not nearly big enough nor could Olive handle the traffic flow.

Porsche / Audi isn't happy being located in the back of the dealer - my guess is that they will be moved up front and Fisker etc around to the back.

[champagne612]

Originally Posted by Scuderia STL

Doug, you're right about Plaza's interest in Reuther, but it looks like it's for a new Jaguar/Land Rover showroom:

Plaza Motors has designs on Reuther auto property...

Right now, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Fisker share space in the former Cadillac showroom, and Jaguar and Land Rover showrooms have been combined elsewhere. I'm still puzzled by Cadillac maintaining just one showroom in a county of one million people, but I get your point, Doug, about fewer dealers being the way forward for GM. (I just think they might have killed at least one freestanding showroom a bit too soon!)

Reuther got lucky - Plaza has nowhere else to go and Creve Couer needs the Reuther eye sore cleaned up.

It's the only approved zoning within a large radius - trust me I looked long and hard at doing something with that site but I deeply dislike CC.

You will sell less dealers - it's been going that way for some time.

Dealers are getting some nice offers to close up - my guess is Plaza was one of them and Plaza refuses to commit to inventory.

If Parktown goes - Dean Team may step up but Plaza may just build a Porsche Audi showroom that will make the factory happy and let Parktown fade away.