[steve adams]

Been reading the mail on the TR maint. costs and was very surprised. I was originally thinking of a 348 (love the egg slicers and somewhat lower price) but if those numbers quoted above are in the ballpark, then I just might bite the bullet and go for the TR in about a year. Face it, when I buy the 348, I'd just be whining for the TR anyway, and its sooo cool looking.

Little did I ever think that when Crocket and Tubbs drove their white TR around the streets of Miami, that I would EVER be thinking about getting one. Sure, I'm 57 but my wife just told me that she'd back me on a Ferrari, as long as the bank account was looking healthy.

57 ? Yeah, it'll be worth the wait for a TR. I'll tell my wife to bury me in it when I die.

[Artvonne]

"If" I were interested in a TR, I would absolutely look for one with a verifiable updated differential, or a 512 gearbox upgrade, or I would knock a lot of money off it ($15K+). Its not a matter of maybe it will fail, its a matter of when.

I would vehemently stay away from garage queens, and focus more on higher mileage drivers in good condition, perhaps a car with service due so as to intervene and have it done to YOUR standards. There are too many cars with low mileage and worn out seats. The seats tell the mileage far better. IOW, seat and overall wear and tear should match the odometer. I wouldnt expect to see seat piping coming apart until the car is past 50K miles.

In a PPI, I would only pay to have a simple compression test done. Any engine that cant pass a compression test has something wrong with it, and there is really no need for a prospective buyer to pay the labor of a leakdown test to diagnose the problem for the owner. Let the owner pay for the leakdown if they want, then you can decide how to proceed. And as there seem to be so many incompetent mechanics who dont really know how to do a proper leakdown and or able to write down the results properly, the results can be very subjective.

[SCM246]

A 512 "TR" in standard condition must have its engine fully removed from the body to replace the cam belts. This is very expensive, so factor it into any budget planning as periodic maintenance expenses.

Beyond that there are a series of failures that can be catastrophic to the car and your budget. For example, the rear end Differential carrier is a known weak point and not unusual to see occur. This cost a friend US$24,000.00 to re.pair. One reason why you may notice 512 prices declining is that buyers factor in these costs when looking at any prospective car. When the 512 series was being produced it had the highest quantities of any Ferrari model to date - they made so many of them that they were no longer exclusive or rare.

The prior posting about 328's being reliable was spot on. It might be that I'm just seeing the high end for sale, but these cars seem to be increasing in value.

[Artvonne]

Any Ferrari can turn into a major expense if the right circumstances prevail. They can drop a valve, throw a belt, etc, and in more than a few cases, cascade into absolutely catostrophic damage within seconds. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. In the vast majority of those major failures, deffered, and/or poor quality maintenence was the key factor.

When we ask what it will cost to maintain a Ferrari, the first question to ask is who will be doing the labor. If it is intended that you will be doing your own work, then the only real cost wil be parts and perhaps machine work. In those cases, the purchase of the car will be the only major cost, and the car will not really cost any more than many other cars to own.

If you intend to pay for labor, the maintenence costs can go anywhere from "not to bad", to "absolutely criminal". Any idiot can work on it, the question is, are they compentent enough and trustworthy enough. Its bad enough owning a car that uses expensive parts and is difficult and time consuming to work on, its completely another if the clown fixing it for you starts ripping you off and doing shoddy work to boot.

On a TR/512, the motor needs to come out to change belts. Ferrari recommend the belts be changed every three years. If you use Factory parts, it appears Ferrari will stand behind any damage. If you have it serviced at the dealer, it shouldnt even be a question they will stand behind a failure.

If you were willing and able to put the car on a strict scheduled sevice plan, and save for it, annual costs should not be excessive, maybe factor $2-3K per year. But again, it all depends on who's doing the wrenching.

In any case, the TR differential HAS been an issue, and a very costly one. Do not let Red Fever cloud your vision, stay on your toes and educate yourself. Just because you can find a pretty TR for $40K doesnt mean it cant cost you $100K to make it run.

[SCM246]

Succinctly stated!

Originally Posted by Artvonne

Any Ferrari can turn into a major expense if the right circumstances prevail. They can drop a valve, throw a belt, etc, and in more than a few cases, cascade into absolutely catostrophic damage within seconds. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. In the vast majority of those major failures, deffered, and/or poor quality maintenence was the key factor.

When we ask what it will cost to maintain a Ferrari, the first question to ask is who will be doing the labor. If it is intended that you will be doing your own work, then the only real cost wil be parts and perhaps machine work. In those cases, the purchase of the car will be the only major cost, and the car will not really cost any more than many other cars to own.

If you intend to pay for labor, the maintenence costs can go anywhere from "not to bad", to "absolutely criminal". Any idiot can work on it, the question is, are they compentent enough and trustworthy enough. Its bad enough owning a car that uses expensive parts and is difficult and time consuming to work on, its completely another if the clown fixing it for you starts ripping you off and doing shoddy work to boot.

On a TR/512, the motor needs to come out to change belts. Ferrari recommend the belts be changed every three years. If you use Factory parts, it appears Ferrari will stand behind any damage. If you have it serviced at the dealer, it shouldnt even be a question they will stand behind a failure.

If you were willing and able to put the car on a strict scheduled sevice plan, and save for it, annual costs should not be excessive, maybe factor $2-3K per year. But again, it all depends on who's doing the wrenching.

In any case, the TR differential HAS been an issue, and a very costly one. Do not let Red Fever cloud your vision, stay on your toes and educate yourself. Just because you can find a pretty TR for $40K doesnt mean it cant cost you $100K to make it run.

[philwozza]

You know, it is people who answer threads like the recent ones, that not only spreads hearsay, but also gloom and despondency that makes the the average enthusiast turn away for all the wrong reasons. These people have no real credible data to back their accusations and this makes the information they provide just another vehicle for spoiling others fun.

If you cant back up your accusations without credible data, please don't comment at all.

There are others on this website that are trying to make a big purchase of a dream. Don't spoil it for them by providing an uninformed opinion, provide correct facts or shut up

I am well aware of Testarossa faults, I disbelieve the insinuation that ALL cars will exhibit the same faults.

P

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by philwozza

You know, it is people who answer threads like the recent ones, that not only spreads hearsay, but also gloom and despondency that makes the the average enthusiast turn away for all the wrong reasons. These people have no real credible data to back their accusations and this makes the information they provide just another vehicle for spoiling others fun.

If you cant back up your accusations without credible data, please don't comment at all.

There are others on this website that are trying to make a big purchase of a dream. Don't spoil it for them by providing an uninformed opinion, provide correct facts or shut up

I am well aware of Testarossa faults, I disbelieve the insinuation that ALL cars will exhibit the same faults.

P

You need to be more specific on what is accusations without credible data made you mention this.

Many of the posters here did own a TR and/or have experience.

[JazzyO]

Philwozza - you accuse people of having no data to back anything up but don't provide any backup data yourself, so forgive me for writing your comment off as pointless.

In general I find all these threads rather pointless, actually.

There is no typical number for maintenance on cars like this, nor, indeed on any car. You spend what you want to spend: it all depends on how you want to run your car. Nobody can decide that for you, you find the specialists you like that charge rates that you can accept, and you decide if/when she needs a new paint job or new tyres or a new exhaust or a major service.

If you would run 2 identical TR's with identical mileage and totalled up the maintenance costs after 10 years, one could have cost 5 times as much as the other. But both owners could feel they got value for money. It is all about what you find important. Are you happy to take the risk of not taking it in for a major? Do you want it detailed by somebody? Do you have the time and inclination to do your own maintenance? etc, etc.

There is not just one answer.

While I admire people who run a car like this on a shoestring budget, personally I would never make that choice. I would much rather have a lesser car run better than buying something out of my league. Again - this is just a personal choice.

Someone let their 308 be painted for £4k. Personally, I am letting my Boxer be painted for £20k. I find that I got the better deal comparing the quality of the work, but I'm sure the owner of the 308 disagrees. It's all about what you're looking for and what makes you happy.

Just don't make the assumption that high numbers mentioned are just people making stuff up! These numbers can be very real.


Onno

[philwozza]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Philwozza - you accuse people of having no data to back anything up but don't provide any backup data yourself, so forgive me for writing your comment off as pointless.

In general I find all these threads rather pointless, actually.

There is no typical number for maintenance on cars like this, nor, indeed on any car. You spend what you want to spend: it all depends on how you want to run your car. Nobody can decide that for you, you find the specialists you like that charge rates that you can accept, and you decide if/when she needs a new paint job or new tyres or a new exhaust or a major service.

If you would run 2 identical TR's with identical mileage and totalled up the maintenance costs after 10 years, one could have cost 5 times as much as the other. But both owners could feel they got value for money. It is all about what you find important. Are you happy to take the risk of not taking it in for a major? Do you want it detailed by somebody? Do you have the time and inclination to do your own maintenance? etc, etc.

There is not just one answer.

While I admire people who run a car like this on a shoestring budget, personally I would never make that choice. I would much rather have a lesser car run better than buying something out of my league. Again - this is just a personal choice.

Someone let their 308 be painted for £4k. Personally, I am letting my Boxer be painted for £20k. I find that I got the better deal comparing the quality of the work, but I'm sure the owner of the 308 disagrees. It's all about what you're looking for and what makes you happy.

Just don't make the assumption that high numbers mentioned are just people making stuff up! These numbers can be very real.


Onno

JazzyO I think we are saying the same thing

I dont have any data to back it up and neither do others, thats my point.
All I know is that in nearly six years of Testarossa ownership AND a member of the GB FOC I have not heard of a single car here in the UK that has had the gearbox / transmission trouble described earlier. For potential new owner to be told that this appears to be a regular occurrence is wrong IMO. Further I know of many owners that have bought cars of nearly 25 years of age with LESS than 15,000 miles and guess what? There are non that I know of that have suffered from dried out seals or bearing because of underuse. To suggest that a purchaser should ask for a stack of money off the price because it has not been fitted with a non standard part is also wrong. For someone wanting a pristine condition car ready for concours shows, a non-standard car is destined to be a looser no matter how good the rest of the car is.
I agree that two identical cars can provide its owner with two completely different servicing bills at the end of the year. I try to keep on top of mine so that big bills never happen Its a never ending job that I love however so I am happy.

P

[Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS]

Originally Posted by philwozza

JazzyO I think we are saying the same thing

I dont have any data to back it up and neither do others, thats my point.
All I know is that in nearly six years of Testarossa ownership AND a member of the GB FOC I have not heard of a single car here in the UK that has had the gearbox / transmission trouble described earlier. For potential new owner to be told that this appears to be a regular occurrence is wrong IMO. Further I know of many owners that have bought cars of nearly 25 years of age with LESS than 15,000 miles and guess what? There are non that I know of that have suffered from dried out seals or bearing because of underuse. To suggest that a purchaser should ask for a stack of money off the price because it has not been fitted with a non standard part is also wrong. For someone wanting a pristine condition car ready for concours shows, a non-standard car is destined to be a looser no matter how good the rest of the car is.
I agree that two identical cars can provide its owner with two completely different servicing bills at the end of the year. I try to keep on top of mine so that big bills never happen Its a never ending job that I love however so I am happy.

P

If I may add my comment, this is a very good discussion with civility and character. w/ smiles Jimmy

[JazzyO]

Originally Posted by philwozza

JazzyO I think we are saying the same thing

OK - misunderstood you. All good now!


Onno