[Boxer]

I have noticed that quite a few F40 owners also have a Porsche Carrera GT sharing the same garage. However I have yet to see anyone with both a F40 and a 959. For the Carrera GT owners, did you look at the 959 ? What is your opinion of it ?

The 959 is one of the rarest super Porsches and also seems to be one of the most unloved.

[rickadelic]

The 959 is indead a really rare car and is still in this modern world really fast.

But I think the carrera GT is a more interesting car for todays standarts. It a real driving sensation just like the f40 and offcoarse the sound of it is really nice.

But you do have a point some really classics ferrari's and the most modern up-to-date porsche there is.
I know that the clutch of the carrera Gt is really quite sensible, I havent got any experience with the 959 is so rare.

[Boxer]

The Carrera GT certainly generates a lot more interest.

From many of the article I have read, it almost seems that Porsche made the 959 to easy to drive and therefore it does not generate the same emotional ties as the F40 or Carrera GT.

[DM1]

For me its always been the issue to Federalize the car. I had trouble in the early 1980s with a Porsche 928 and I promised myself I will NEVER by a "gray market" car again. When I got the CGT the thought crossed my mind to look at a 959 but then I reconsidered. I still happy with my decision today.

[RufMD]

I looked at one closely Scott. I looked at a 959 after I had already moved to get a Carrera GT. For the same money, only a real affinity for the looks of the 959 or its place in auto history leads to it being the choice.

Its tech while revolutionary at the time, is now just a source of expensive repairs and hard to find parts. Witness a fellow recently trying to get a replacement heater control panel for the dash...next to impossible to find.

Even Walter Rorhl said that while the car is a classic for what it represented at the time, even its celebrated awd system is miles behind the system offered in the 996 X50.

Some cars like the F40 date sympathetically...the 959 to me, looks decidedly dated. If you can get one for a very good price, well maintained, it is an interesting historical car to have.

Obviously, the gulf between the two becomes even more apparent when you look at what the CGT offers for the same money...

There is a book by Elmar Brummer, Jutta Deiss and Reiner Schloz called "Porsche Carrera GT" . I suggest you read this book before making your final decision. I suspect after reading it and seeing the detailed photographs of its components and construction, you will be a fan of the CGT (considering your current stable, I think you would enjoy one immensely).

I think it is a sensational car...raw, precise, beautifully constructed and incredibly reliable. I have driven mine in temp ranges from -15F to 115F indicated on the dash thermometer. In each extreme, the oil and water temps were at the same number, the gearbox worked fine, and the car ran like a champ.

It is no accident that quite a few F40 owners also have a CGT...they are cut from the same raw, uncompromised cloth.


Want to get a good idea of the maintenance involved with a 959 ? Read Wayne's threads on Pelican Parts...He bought a 959 and has several threads dealing with maintenance issues on the car. It is a realistic look at the ownership/maintenance experience of a 959.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...&highlight=959

[Boxer]

Gentlemen, Thank you for the eloquently stated insights. The more I delve into the 959 the more murky the waters get. I have yet to run across anyone who has undying love for it. Many admirers but it is not a car that inspires fanatics to come flocking.

Perhaps the answer is right under my nose in the original question, F40 owners own Carrera GTs and not the 959 because the Carrera GT is the more inspiring car.

One of the things that I did find initially attractive about the 959 was that it is a supercar that can be used everyday. Based on all the maintenance horror stories this does not appear to be a realistic option.

[Andrew]

Look at production numbers too, wasn't the 959 around 200 whereas the Carrera GT is over 1,000.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by RufMD

I looked at one closely Scott. I looked at a 959 after I had already moved to get a Carrera GT. For the same money, only a real affinity for the looks of the 959 or its place in auto history leads to it being the choice.

Its tech while revolutionary at the time, is now just a source of expensive repairs and hard to find parts. Witness a fellow recently trying to get a replacement heater control panel for the dash...next to impossible to find.

Even Walter Rorhl said that while the car is a classic for what it represented at the time, even its celebrated awd system is miles behind the system offered in the 996 X50.

Some cars like the F40 date sympathetically...the 959 to me, looks decidedly dated. If you can get one for a very good price, well maintained, it is an interesting historical car to have.

Obviously, the gulf between the two becomes even more apparent when you look at what the CGT offers for the same money...

There is a book by Elmar Brummer, Jutta Deiss and Reiner Schloz called "Porsche Carrera GT" . I suggest you read this book before making your final decision. I suspect after reading it and seeing the detailed photographs of its components and construction, you will be a fan of the CGT (considering your current stable, I think you would enjoy one immensely).

I think it is a sensational car...raw, precise, beautifully constructed and incredibly reliable. I have driven mine in temp ranges from -15F to 115F indicated on the dash thermometer. In each extreme, the oil and water temps were at the same number, the gearbox worked fine, and the car ran like a champ.

It is no accident that quite a few F40 owners also have a CGT...they are cut from the same raw, uncompromised cloth.


Want to get a good idea of the maintenance involved with a 959 ? Read Wayne's threads on Pelican Parts...He bought a 959 and has several threads dealing with maintenance issues on the car. It is a realistic look at the ownership/maintenance experience of a 959.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...&highlight=959

Very interesting photo story !

Have you ever encountered any maintenance issues with your CGT ?

[Sbrillanti]

I personally own a gorgeous 959. Many of those who speak about this car have never driven it. This is the car you buy and use for yourself, without most of those who watch you really recognize it. After driving it you cannot forget it anymore.

Since it is a very advanced and complex car, you cannot use it months apart. You need to love it and use it. In a different way it is very expensive to maintain. My car has 81,000 km on it and it is wonderful.

Sorry, but I will never buy a F40 or a F50. You can include the 959 in the same class of the 288 GTO.

A similar question could be:
Why the 2F90 club instead of the 288+F40 club? Cause people who buy the F40 do not probably understand really what the 288 is. An additional similar question is why people who buy a CGT do not buy a 959?

Please let me reverse the question: what other car(s) do the 959 owners buy? The answer is simple: 288 GTO, 993 GT2, and so on...

This is not a matter of what is better or worse, but it is a matter of different leagues: 959 is not in the same league of both F40 AND CGT.

Bye.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Sbrillanti

I personally own a gorgeous 959. Many of those who speak about this car have never driven it. This is the car you buy and use for yourself, without most of those who watch you really recognize it. After driving it you cannot forget it anymore.

Since it is a very advanced and complex car, you cannot use it months apart. You need to love it and use it. In a different way it is very expensive to maintain. My car has 81,000 km on it and it is wonderful.

Bye.

Can you please advise what the annual maintenance costs would be on the 959? What are major things to look out for?

[Sbrillanti]

Boxer:

During the last two years, maintenance costs have been below 20K euros, including major service at 80K Km. In my experience, air conditioning, turbo wastegate and adjustable suspensions required service.

Here are a couple of pics of my 959 taken during a recent track day:

[Chrishawk4]

Very nice looking car

Chris

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Sbrillanti

I personally own a gorgeous 959. Many of those who speak about this car have never driven it. This is the car you buy and use for yourself, without most of those who watch you really recognize it. After driving it you cannot forget it anymore.

Since it is a very advanced and complex car, you cannot use it months apart. You need to love it and use it. In a different way it is very expensive to maintain. My car has 81,000 km on it and it is wonderful.

Sorry, but I will never buy a F40 or a F50. You can include the 959 in the same class of the 288 GTO.

A similar question could be:
Why the 2F90 club instead of the 288+F40 club? Cause people who buy the F40 do not probably understand really what the 288 is. An additional similar question is why people who buy a CGT do not buy a 959?

Please let me reverse the question: what other car(s) do the 959 owners buy? The answer is simple: 288 GTO, 993 GT2, and so on...

This is not a matter of what is better or worse, but it is a matter of different leagues: 959 is not in the same league of both F40 AND CGT.

Bye.

Interesting post and welcome to FL.

Quick question, would you say the 959 and 288 GTO are in the same class? My impression of the 959 has always been that the car was WAY ahead of its time and probably out classes the 288 GTO.

[Pete04222]

Originally Posted by Sbrillanti

A similar question could be:
Why the 2F90 club instead of the 288+F40 club? Cause people who buy the F40 do not probably understand really what the 288 is.

Congrats on an awesome car!! I think the answer to your question lies in the rarity of the cars. Porsche made 337 of the 959 and it's competitor, the 288 GTO, only had a run of 277. Both of these cars are very rare. On the other hand, there were 1,315 F40s and 380 F50s. That's over 100 more F50s than GTOs. It should be more easily aquired. Of course I could be completely full of shit. I would love to own any of these rare cars. In fact I'm wearing a T-shirt right now with a 288 GTO on it.

Congrats again on the 959! You have a car that only 0.000005% of the world's population has had the opportunity to experience. (337 divided by 6.67 billion)

[Andrew]

Pete,

Is the F50 more acquirable than the 288 GTO? Less? Equal? That is a hell of a question and some gas for the engine! Think about it.

[Pete04222]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Pete,

Is the F50 more acquirable than the 288 GTO? Less? Equal? That is a hell of a question and some gas for the engine! Think about it.

I did say that I could be completely full of shit, but I think if you have the means then the simple fact that there are over 100 more of the F50 in existence than you should be able to find one for sale more readily.

[Pete04222]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Interesting post and welcome to FL.

Quick question, would you say the 959 and 288 GTO are in the same class? My impression of the 959 has always been that the car was WAY ahead of its time and probably out classes the 288 GTO.

They are in the exact same class. The GTO was designed and built to compete against the 959. Unfortunately, the GTO never raced.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Pete,

Is the F50 more acquirable than the 288 GTO? Less? Equal? That is a hell of a question and some gas for the engine! Think about it.

In reality, about the same. There are always of few of both available somewhere in the world. The same goes for the 959.

One major issue on buying any of them is still the different country regulations and taxes that restrict free movement of these cars around the planet.

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Sbrillanti

Boxer:

During the last two years, maintenance costs have been below 20K euros, including major service at 80K Km. In my experience, air conditioning, turbo wastegate and adjustable suspensions required service.

Here are a couple of pics of my 959 taken during a recent track day:

Sbrillanti, Is Euro 10k in yearly maintenance costs a normal average or is it a similar trend with many of the Ferraris where you have a small service most years witih a large one expensive one every 4-5 years?

I have heard that the adjustable suspension can be very problemic and difficult to maintain. Has this been your experience?

[Sbrillanti]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Interesting post and welcome to FL.

Quick question, would you say the 959 and 288 GTO are in the same class? My impression of the 959 has always been that the car was WAY ahead of its time and probably out classes the 288 GTO.

Thanks for your Welcome.

About your question. Please note that I am from Bologna, Italy, that's less than 50 Km far from Maranello. This means that my point of view is that of an European. In Europe is quite common to find a F40 for sale, not so rare to find a F50, even if produced in small numbers, and definitely much more difficult to find a 288. Price is about EUR 300K for F40, 400-450K for both F50 and 288.
I agree with you that the Porsche 959 is way ahead of any sports car produced in the 80s and 90s. But the 288 in some way reflects a similar philosophy: starting from a relatively common chassis (308 or 911), producing the best supercar, that could also be used to go from home to office and back. This means that in our minds, the 288 GTO and the 959 are in the same league for both concept and exclusivity.

Sbrillanti, Is Euro 10k in yearly maintenance costs a normal average or is it a similar trend with many of the Ferraris where you have a small service most years witih a large one expensive one every 4-5 years?

I have heard that the adjustable suspension can be very problemic and difficult to maintain. Has this been your experience?

Boxer:

Expect a normal average to be around Euro 4K or less per year. Problems with suspensions are not really very problematic. In my experience there are two big points in 959 maintenance:

1. If you do not use the car twice or at least once a month expect to find unexpected and costly problems when you switch on the next time

2. Expert mechanics are rare. Please note that in Italy, and in Germany too, there are no more than 2 or 3 persons able to really service this car and able to adjust it. This is why only one official center in Italy and two or maximum three official centers in Germany are authorized to service the 959.